i live in michigan and i'm not sure about the laws in other states, but gas sattions are required to put a sticker on the pumps saying if they contain ethanol. I usually try to run sunoco 94 in my Z28 and I noticed that most sunoco stations have 10% ethanol in their fuel. that's not good so i hear.

My question is, what are the effects of ethanol in gas? will it hurt my cars or just rob power? I run 87 octane in my 2000 prizm and i notice that many stations put ethanol in that too.

Sunoco is not the only culprit here, but it surprised me cause i thought they were a good brand. I've seen it at BP, Speedway, Clark and probably others too. Those cheap bastards.

 

Ethanol, Methanol... Mikes hard leamonade...


There are people that are probably more qualified for these questions that Im sure will follow me right up..

As far as robbing power this is a common misconception of gasonline...

Gasoline isn't nitrous and doesn't give free horse power. It gives you the *room* to make horse power with octane, the higher the octane rating the more stable the gas burns, you get a nice consistant burn pattern in kind of a dome shape from the spark plug outward untill it hits the piston giving you the power...

Lower octane ratings are more volitile so to speak, they burn with hot spots, an inconsistant burn, and cause detonation. They will also burn sooner giving the same effects of advanced timing.

The more compression the more combustable the a/f mix, this is why higher compression vehicles need higher (more stable) gasses, and thats where you move into the alcohols. At compression over 12:1ish

 

the octane business i understand, too much can be a bad thing. my 10:1 305 needs premium the way it's set up. The reason stations are putting ethanol in their fuel is to save costs or maybe to help emissions, not give us room to run 12:1 compression.

I know some engines can run 87 octane with 10:1 compression, like my prizm or my mom's trailblazer, they are more modern than my iron headed 305.

Am i wrong on the reasons that stations add ethanol? It can't be for high compression motors because they even put it in 87 octane.

thanks for the response.

 

It is deffinatly for their benifit, not yours.

same with oxygenated gas


The reason most 4 cylinders have higher compression is they usually have aluminum heads/block.

 

They put it in the gas so us farmers in Iowa can feed the little uns..

 

Well, actually, no. Ethanol costs a lot more than gasoline to produce. If it weren't for the littany of federal and state taxes of all manner that are imposed on the production, storage, distribution, and sale of gasoline, the price at the pump would be about 78¢ per gallon around here. ( you DO realize that there is even a tax on gasoline just to haul it in tankers over the road, right?) Ethanol is about twice that cost at a minimum. And the oil companies have to BUY it instead of pumping it out of the ground and selling it.

The federal taxes that apply to gasoline are waved for ethanol in order to encourage oil companies to blend it into their products. Oil companies don't make a dime on ethanol - farmers and their co-ops do. This probably pisses off the oil companies endlessly (too friggin' bad, huh?), but there is a federal mandate for oxygenated fuel that is met by either adding ethanol (good for the environment and farmers), or MTBE (good for the chemical and oil companies - bad for the environment).

On a wider front, the 10% of the fuel that you use that is ethanol is 10% less oil that you are using - almost the same amount of oil that North America imports from the middle eastern oil cartels. I happen to like the idea of being in a position to tell the cartels where to get off whenever we feel like it. And the money stays in the US and Canada, too, where it is less likely to be used to fund rogue military actions.

From a users perspective, ethanol inherently has a higher octane than gasoline. It burns more slowly and cooler than gasoline (higher octane), but produces slightly more moles of combustion gasses as it burns (for more eventual, albiet slower, cylinder pressure). That's why alcohol blends are the fuel of choice for top-fuelers. The nitro-methane fuelers get a big, fast "bang" from the nitro, and the burn is "controlled" by the methanol (alcohol). For similar reasons, lower octane gasoline can be blended with ethanol so that the gasoline makes the "bang" while the ethanol controls the detonation. That means that lower quality fuel can be made into higher quality fuel by adding ethanol. That also means that we get more gallons of usable fuel per barrel of crude oil. More reasons the oil cartels should be nervous. Personally, I like it when they are a little nervous.

I've been using ethanol blended fuels in everything (from lawn mowers and chain saws to V-8s) since 1976. I had one Rochester 2GC plastic carburetor float dissolve in the fuel in about 1978 and one diaphragm in a Walbro carb on an outboard fail in about 1982, and I'm not even sure the boat carb damage was from the alcohol.

Since alcohol has been available for so long, you'd be very hard-pressed to find anything that would be damaged by it any more. I've got a 1936 Allis-Chalmers 'B' tractor that runs just fine on unleaded gasohol. It doesn't mind that there is no lead in the fuel nor that it drinks alcohol. I wouldn't be too concerned about the rumors of damage caused by ethanol blends, but if you don't believe me, read your owners manual. They've all approved the use of 10% ethanol blends since at least 1978.

By the way, when did you notice? The alcohol has probably been in there for years.

 

hey, I live i Michigan to, if your nervous about putting alcohol in your tank,then fill up at Meijers!!!

they are cheap, and right on the pump, it says "100 percent gasoline"

 

I don't know about 1978 or 1979 for that matter. I was born in 1981 and while vader, you may call me a young moron, I know more than the average 20 year old honda lover. chevrolet has been in my blood since day one, even if i missed the golden age of american muscle. i think the ls1 is the best smallblock made and am aware of every other old school motor, 195 horse 1955 265 to 96 LT4 corvette 350 with 330 hp.

Thanks guys for the info, but my OLD 1984 Z28 doesn't have the owner's manual that it came with, who can expect that?

I think the oil cartels are doing just fine, our prices are totally within reason. we can rely on the middle east as long as we please as long as we have a backup in mind. we can scare them whenever we want, why not use that power when we really need it? I am no fan of imported products, they reduce our GDP as fast as we increase it, but why try to show more power than we need to?

Vader, you've caught my attention as usual. i did not know that only "farmers and co-ops" benefit from the burning of ethanol. I knew that sellers benefited first but thank you all for the valuable info that everyone has provided.

You old guys are the bomb, even if us young guys claim to know all, your experience usually shines through.

ps, i turn 21 in just a couple weeks!!!! sweet

 

meijer's? funny that's the last place i'd look.

I went to school in birmingham but i lived in clarkston. i went to brother rice at 15 mile and lahser. thanks for the info.