I was talking to a guy that has a second gen transam for sale. He said that it is making 430 rear wheel hp. I dont know a lot about it. I know he said that the motor itself cost him 3000 to have built. It does have a decent lope. He put a edlebrock intake and carb on it and it has 1 5/8 long tube headers with true duals that end at about the back of the doors with header mufflers. It appears that they were some sort of stock head that have hopefully been ported. I think he said it was either 10 or 10.5 to 1 compression. I think that he might have said that I can get the specs of the motor if I called the shop he had it built at. I am going to talk to him later on tonight. I will find out who built the motor so that maybe I can get the specs. Anyway do you guys think this guy is BS'ing? It is either a th350 or 400, he told me a long time ago but I forgot. It has a posi 8.5 10 bolt with disks and lift bars but I dont remember what ratio. Anyway thats not related I guess. Also the car has an open element with functional daytona hood. It also has an electric instead of manual fan, and an accel super coil. Let me know what you think. I am going to ride in it tonight.

Ben

 

Without seeing it, I'm not going to call anybody a liar... but that's 500 HP at the crank. About the only anywhere near stock heads that will support that power level would be 292s. I'd have my doubts. An Accell super coil doesn't make that kind of difference. This sounds to me like either a Desktop Dyno number, or one of those "well I have a 350 that came out of a Vette once so it must have at least 350 HP, but then I put headers on it and the guy at the counter said they'd give me 70 more, and this chrome air cleaner box said it gives me 20, and this ignition gave me...." And $3000 to build a motor is nothing, you can spend that on a not much more than stock one easy, and as we all know too well, just spending a wad of cash doesn't guarantee speed. I don't believe I could build a 500 HP motor for $3000, at least I never have been able to build one at that power level for that cheap.

430 RW HP in one of those cars, if it hooks up (slapper bars won't cut it) should put it at around mid-high 11s. Does he have time slips? Or, will he put it on a dyno for you? That's a good way to call out the BS... if it's less than some agreed amount of HP he pays, if it's more you pay... just like a challenge at the track.

 

He did say that it was making around 500 at the crank. Also he said that he spent 3000 on the bottom end, but I don't know if he meant with heads or not. He said it is a 4 bolt. He did not claim it to get great traction. It had street tires on it. He said that it would leave stripes clear down the street. He said it has 90 10 front shocks and air shocks in the rear. I am going to ride in it soon so I will tell you if I find out anything else.



Ben

 

HP value of 4-bolt mains = 0

Let us know, especially if the news is good.

 

Possible, but unlikely. It should be REALLY FAST though if it has that much at the wheels

 

Well, I rode in it. It hasnt run in a few months. When I rode in it it would hardly idle. My brother rode in it after it was warmed up though. It got to 80 pretty darn quick, but I dont think it was 430 hp quick. He didnt take it faster than that because it was on neighborhood roads and he doesnt have current plates for it. He said that he would try to find out about the specs on the motor. I love the shifter though. It has the hurst shifter with 3 seperate sticks to shift through the gears. It has 373 gears and I would say posi is definately there after seeing those marks it left. He did say that it would need new plugs and wires but after it had run a while it idled decent on its own but with a definate lope. He claims that he had it dynoed in and out of the car so I am going to see if he can produce paperwork on the dyno runs because he said he had the papers at one point. Well, we will see I guess.

Ben

Im not that dumb by the way. I was just telling you what I found out about it.

 

Momar,

I'm not that dumb by the way...

No one is calling you dumb, or calling you anything for that matter. Any of us around here with half a brain realize that a 350-ish V-8 is easily capable of 850 HP, naturally aspirated, if well built. NASCAR crews have so many of those they use them for doorstops and paperweights, so 430 HP isn't at all unrealistic. It's just not common on the streets.

And I understood your point about the 4-bolt case, since a 2-bolt may nor handle that kind of power output for too long. It would stand to reason that the case would at least be a 4-bolt, if not a high nickel casting as well.

It would be interesting to see if he can substantiate the claim with a dyno sheet, and if it is in fact making 500 HP at the crank, just how long a POS 10-bolt posi axle will live behind it. Let us know.

 

I kind of question the power numbers also but would like to see these supposed dyno sheets. I would not call this car slow though. It seemed to have a lot more get up than my friends 89 5.7 tpi IROC and his previous 87 w/ 355 tpi. I know that is not saying a ton, but I do think it is putting out a pretty good amount of power. When I rode in it also it was still not running quite right because it has been quite a while since it ran other than earlier today. It was running better when my brother rode in it though. It had been shut off for a couple of minutes and he reached in and it started right back up and idled well. I know it had long tube headers w/ dual exhaust, a pretty decent cam, a rebuilt bottom end(I know it doesnt make more power other than compression), aftermarket carb and intake, and an electric fan instead of on the water pump. The one thing I dont know about is the heads and exact cam specs which will obviously make the difference. He is supposed to be trying to get the specs on the motor and I will pull a valve cover next time I am over there and check the casting number on the heads. He did say that it had larger valves put in the heads but that was all he knew about the heads. By the way, does anyone know what the hurst shifter with the three levers is called?

Thanks

Ben

 

Oh yeah, he also said when I went over there again that he didnt know for sure if it was 410 or 430 rwhp. I hope he is telling the truth and can supply the paperwork(fingers crossed).

Thanks

Ben

 

Vader, this is a mute point, but I HARDLY think the fact that the block is, or may be a 2 bolt would have anything to do with it holding up for very long at 430HP. I believe it was John Lingefelter himself who said in his book that a 2 bolt main block is good for 550+HP, so I hardly think 430HP is going to make it fail. I have many friends running cars in the 10 second bracket, and many of them are on 2 bolt blocks, so when I see people with 13-17 second thirdgens worrying about their main caps going out on their 2 bolt 350's, it really makes me laugh.

 

Momar, the fact of whether or not the motor makes 430RWHP it TOTALLY irrelevant if all you are after is an all out 1/4 mile terror. I know of at least one 10 second car in Tucson that dynoed at 350 RWHP. Then again the car only weighs 3,000 pounds without driver, and is running a sweet converter/rear gear setup along with a nicely setup rear suspension. There is more to going fast than dyno paper #'s. If you really want to get into what the car has and doesn't have, why don't you run a compression and leakdown check on all the cylinders, run the block #'s, and drill the owner for some timeslips as well as the dyno papers. Just my 2 cents.

 

Probably should have asked this..........but are you a perspective buyer of the car?

 

damnit, double posted twice!

 

I always thought that the best way to create lots of horse power was with moderate torque, and lot of RPM's. Whats HP anyways - right?

Why try to squeze out 500 FP, to create 500 HP at 5500 or what ever. Why not build a 400 FP engine that can breath to 8000 RPMs.
Thats kind or how NASCAR does it. They however push upwards of 500-600 FPT to get 850 HP at 9000 RPMS.

Just another way to look at it.
ummm - You'll need some space age parts to keep a push rod SBC together @ 9G's


Ron

 

Well, yeah I want it to be fast, but what I was trying to figure out is if he is lying or not really. I just want something to play with. Yes I am considering buying it. I am trying to get the papers, and the information from the guy that built it so I will know its specs. He doesnt have timeslips because the track wont let you run without a roll cage if you have t-tops he said. Ok, I probably shouldnt tell you guys this because I will probably be made fun of (oh well). This car has a front off of a z28 on it. The guy said he didnt like pontiacs so he changed it. It also has the stock tail lights removed and has some kind of black plastic or something made to fit it with vette tail lights in it. It actually doest look bad, but it is not a car that i am getting for the body we'll say. Actually when I said it was a 10 bolt I was guessing because that is what came in them but a long time ago when I talked to him before I was interested in possibly buying it I thing he may have said it has a 12 bolt. I know last night he said something about the rear was worth 1500 so I will have to take a look at that. He is selling it cheap so I am considering it as a new toy. Thanks for everyones input and hopefully I will have some more for you guys within the next couple of days.

Ben

 

But the original post listed 500 HP, which is a danger level for 2-bolt caps. If you talk to John, ask him what he meant by that statement. The 2-bolt CASES are good for a lot more power than many people might think, but only if the cast grey iron caps are replaced with forgings or better castings (which usually have four holes on the center three caps). I really think he was talking about the viability of the 2-bolt case and webs, not the factory caps themselves. In any event, the point is only moot until the cap bolts start elongating, or around 500 HP as you quoted. At higher RPMs, the cranks stresses are higher, so the HP numbers can be lower yet still produce failures. 500 HP is certainly a point at which to consider a stronger bottom end, since I've seen the aftermath of rotating assembly failures at a lot lower power output than even 400 HP. It all depends on how well prepared the case really is.

And I'd still be concerned about the differential at those power levels.

 

Well, if it is a 10 bolt it would be a 8.5 instead of the 7.5 that the thirdgens deal with. So, how much power can a 8.5 10 bolt reliably handle? Like I said though I will check which rear it has.

Ben

 

Not as much as you can judge with a ruler...

12 bolt is the only way...


Ron

 

I was wondering if anyone does know what that shifter is? I know it said hurst on it. It had 3 levers. The first one controlled reverse, park, drive and neutral as long as the other two were forward. If they were all down it was in first. If you push just the far right one up it is in second. If you have the far right one up and push the midddle one up it went into third.

Ben

 

I think they are called Lightning Rods.I know the ones you are talking about , they are very cool looking !

 

The 8.5 10 bolt can hold inbetween 600 and 800 hp depending on the gears that can inside

 

I didnt talk to him any more yet, but I went and looked at it and unfortunately it is a 10 bolt. It does have disks though. Does anyone know what kind of these with 3.73s could handle I would appreciate the info. I really dont know what it could handle now because of the conflicting info, but what worries me is from what I have seen vader usually knows what he is talking about and he doesnt seem to think it will last long under the amount of power he claims.

Ben

 

Anyone else have some input on the 8.5 10 bolt?

Thanks

Ben

 

Well, people are running 11s with 10 bolt rear ends. Drive sensibly and it will last a long time. But if you want to rev it to 4000 rpm and dump the clutch, nothing will put up with that forever.

 

I am going over there again after I get off of work today. I will see if he has come up with anything, and see about pulling a valve cover to look at the casting number. Is there anything else that you guys would suggest I check.

Ben

 

hey Ben how much is this car? Think you could get a pic of it? My friend has an '83 or '84 Hurst Oldsmobile with the three shifters. That sucker is a workhorse. It has over 250,000 miles on it. Original motor and tranny (the tranny has been rebuilt at least three times) and it now has an '85 front end. 3.73's outback keep it kicking but i don't know for how much longer. With 430rwhp or whatever that bird turns out to be, that rear should be fine. 10 bolts are not bad rears, and like said already, as long as you don't neutral bomb it all the time it should be fine. Good luck and post the news.

~Matt

 

It is 2500. He is buying a house and so he is selling some of his cars. He just sold a Porsche 944 turbo that was supposed to be some special edition that there were only forty some of for 4500. He sold his 97 Cadillac to his mom. Anyway the only camera I have access to is pretty crappy but I will try to get a couple of pics anyway. And yes I think that shifter is pretty cool.



Ben

 

actually i just got some bad news. My friend with the oldsmobile just crashed into a telephone pole yesterday. Exactly a year ago that day he was in another accident. 9/11- that is one creepy day... Hear about how the NY lottery winning numbers for pick three were 911?

~Matt

 

2nd gens have 8.5 - 10 bolts, but I don't think they can handle as much HP as previously stated.

But hey, there better than 7.5...For that fact isn't everything out there better

Ron