Hey, got a question that just happens to be related to an INCREDIBLY frusterating problem.

Ok, I have a 1986 Trans Am... 305 V8 LG4, 4bbl Quadrajet carb... I'm driving down the road today, and the car just quits, the music was to loud for me to hear what, if anything, happened under the hood. But, after the car died, I tried starting it again (After I put it in park), and I got nothing, shes tried to turn over, because shes cranking.... but no go. Its getting gas, and at first I thought it was flooded, but I left it for about 4 hours and still the same thing. It cranks, but just won't turn over. Gas will spit out the top, as well as some smoke (?) or mist of some sort. While its cranking, at some points it seems to get slower, or crank harder, and it even sounds like it fires off some of the cylinders, but nothing to make it run... and I can do this forever and get no-where. I'm not sure what happened, or what I can do to fix it, because I'm not all that well versed in engine problems. I just need a direction to go in, and some sort of idea as to whats happening, and you people are the BEST as I've found out for helping out in dire situations. So, I leave my future in your hands Hehe

I appreciate any help in advance Thanks guys

Adam

 

Is your SES light on?

Is it raining in FL right now?

 

I had the same car and had the same problem. It's sounds like your ignition. Start with the ignition module and build your way to the spark plugs. If you don't know what your doing, don't do it. (like me Long story short.........sounds like your ignition. Good luck!

 

Mark A Shields: As far as I know, the SES light is just another interior light Its on very frequently, but never for long periods of time. It IS on now however. And no, its not raining here ATM.

plohound: Where should I start on the ignition? I mean, working from least expensive upwards I can do pretty much anything I set my mind to, and really don't have any other choice. And if worse comes to worse and I get myself in a bind I can always ask friends to come over and help me do whatever it is I need doing.... unfortunetly most of them are busy all the time, and there hasn't been anyone availible all day I'll keep checkin in.... right now I'm off to see if theres anything else I can do. I just replaced the battery with one that I know is working fine.... that didn't help. Its wierd the way the start is acting... I mean, certain points in its rotation it seems to drain power extensively, or seem like its cranking harder. Well, I guesse all I can do is wait and see what I find out.

Thanks guys Keep that info coming Hehe

Adam

 

Well, if not done lately, a new cap and rotor is fairly cheap.

 

I went searching through the reciepts that came with the car, and aparently the car was serviced about 6 months ago and they changed the rotor, cap, and the coil. So, unless somthing odd happened, then I'm not thinking the problem is lieing in those few pieces..... though I could be completely wrong!

I'm gonna go check on one thing that I saw dangling from under the passengers side dash (Yes one is the computer, but theres this other, yellow thing that says its realted to spark plugs in some way, and maybe it came loose, seeing as how its just dangling there. And the reason there dangling is because I'm in the process of restoring the interior, and the guy that owned the car before me just happend to NOT bolt that ECM or that little yellow box back up there, so they just kinda fell when I was taking that plastic pannel off. I haven't had any problems up until now though..... but its not to hard to believe that the yellow spark plug box thing could have come loose.)

After that, I'm getting some sleep

Adam

 

Scratch the little yellow box thing (Still don't know what that is). That wasn't it Well, I got to talk to one of my friends dads this morning and he said it sounded like it may have jumped timing.... and as of this morning the car is no better than it was last night. So, does this sound like it could be the problem? And if so, what kind of tools and I going to need to get at it and replace it? And what kind of time are we looking at for me to do this? (I know how to get the water pump off N/P, just got done replaceing it)

I really appreciate all the help you guys have given so far, as you prove to be lifesavers time and time again

Adam

 

That is classic timing set failure. DON'T TOUCH the distributor, ESPECIALLY don't go adjusting the timing. Just pull off the timing cover and change the chain and gears, and don't be too surprised to find that the chain has worn a hole in the timing cover at the bottom on the pass side. You'll need the whole timing set, that is both gears and the chain, a gasket set, a balancer installer/remover tool (you can "rent" for free at Auto Zone and such places), maybe a Speedi-sleeve for the balancer if the old seal has worn a groove in it, maybe a timing cover, maybe a water pump since you're taking it off too, etc.

 

So what exactly happened? I mean, what makes this kinda thing happen to the timing set, and whats the best I can buy from a place like Autozone or Discount Auto Parts? If I'm replaceing it I might as well go all the way.

Adam

 

What makes it happen, is that for some reason known only to themselves and G0d, the factory decided to use a cam gear made of chinesium with phenolic teeth. The phenolic teeth strip off of the chinesium, leaving nothing but the chinesium gums which no longer grip the chain securely. Replacement cam gears are steel, so it's a one-time thing: basically every Chevy V8 will have this happen to it sooner or later, if something else doesn't happen first that makes somenody replace it. I have had it happen to me while driving (a 454); one of our other cars did it to my wife (305); her dad's car did it to him (350), 200 miles from home, and I had to go tow their car back; etc.

You can get decent timing sets most anywhere, including places like you mention. They're only $15 to $20. Don't get the $20 "roller" kind, they're not really rollers, they just look like they ought to be; get the Link-Belt style where the chain looks exactly like the stock one. They're as good as anything and better than most for the street. A good brand is Cloyes.

 

RB,

Wasn't '86 the last year for engines with the plastic toothed cam sprocket (V-8)? I was under the understanding that all SBC cam sprockets were cast at or before that year. I probaly have my dates wrong again, but that's how bad my memory is.

 

I really don't know when they quit, I do know my 83 had the one as described.

Getting old sucks doesn't it! I've heard them say that the second thing you lose when you get old is your memory, but I can't remember what the first one was supposed to be.... oh well....

 

Before you go tearing your motor apart, I'd pull the ignition module and have that checked out at Zone or an Advance Auto parts store. Easy to do, not to mention it would suck to replace a bunch of other stuff and have it not fix the problem. This exact same thing happened to me a couple months ago - driving about 85 mph or so, all of a sudden, nothing. Engine just stops, completely without warning. Tach at 0, car coasts to a stop. Everything else is working fine, engine cranks all day long, but won't catch. I pulled my ignition module, took it in, and yup, it was toast. I replaced it, car fired right up, and no ignition problems since. A new module at Advance auto is @$25 for a cheap one, or you could do what I did - upgrade to the Holley Annihilator module, for @ 55-60 or so - however, you'd probably have to order this. You may check the pick up coil as well, this is like a $10-15 part and could also be the cause of your problem. Just a suggestion before you get into the timing stuff. Good luck, let us all know how it turns out!

 

The ignition module was bad, heh, and I've already torn half the crap out. The guy said it had Low End RPM problems or somthing like that. Would that cause it not to start and what not? I got a new one and am putting it on as we speak.... have to look at the wires again since the stupid wiring harness things broke apart. I just wanna be sure that thats the prolem. So to re-hash, the ignition module was bad, I got a new one.... should this fix it? I just wanna know before I slape the radiator, fan, and re-hook up all the belts, hehe, cause if it wasn't it'd be a real bytch

Thanks again guys!

Adam

 

You can stick a module in it, and leave all that other stuff out until after you see whehter it runs... it shouldn't take long to figure out if that fixed it... just hook up enough stuff to get it to run. If the dist is still in, you ought to be able to test that in about 10 minutes or less.

 

Replacing the module in all likeliness will fix it; this was the case with my car. I'm not gonna say for sure that it will, but if I had to guess, I'd say that's all that's wrong with it. Remember, when you put the module back on, make sure that you smear that silicone crap that should have came with it all over the back. The module uses the distributor as a heatsink, and if you do not use the thermal grease, you'll probably fry another one in no time. Good luck!

 

It didn't do a thing Still doing the exact same thing.... I think I've gotten myself into somthing that I don't know a way out of. This is a bit overwhelming, and with no other way out of it I'm not sure what I can do. Now I read that I have to drop the oil pan and stuff. Anyone have any idea how much a dealership will charge me to tow the car in and fix it?

I just don't know what else to do guys... I just don't think that I can do all this by myself.

Adam

 

Don't do that.... if you have the water pump and the accessories off, you're more than halfway there. You don't have to "drop" the oil pan, only loosen the front 3 r 4 on each side, and grind the corners of the seal lip off. You'll see what I mean when you get there.

Your description made it obvious to me that your problem wasn't the module. Maybe the module was bad, but that wasn't what took it down. The clues were that it occasionally fired, tried to run a little for just an instant, had compression at some times but not others.... all clearly not things that a dead module can cause.

Don't give up now, you've almost got it licked, keep at it and learn something. If yo uhave the front of the motor apart, then you can do it; you've already almost done it.

 

Take out a Loan and buy a Honda Accord.

Seriously.

Now if your done Whining, Go to Autozone, and beg Borrow or steal a Harmonic Damper Puller.

Take off you Alternator, Smog and Water pumps, and All the other Stuff thats in the way.

Pull Remove the Crank Pulley and following the directions on the puller, Remove the balancer.

Once thats off, Unbolt the Smaller bolts holding the timing chain Cover in place.

Loosen the first few Bolts on each side of the oil pan.

Pull the timing Cover Off.

Look at the chain, Is it Broke ? Probrably. Even if it isnt, at this point replace it anyway.

Hitchhike to The local parts place, and buy a replacement chain.

Come home, And use the harmonic dampner puller to yankt he crank Gear. If it dosent have that feature Go find a gear puller.

All else fails, Ive used a crowbar.

Then simply line things up and replace. Make sure you get the cam lined strait up.

Once thats one, Put everything back together. Not really too bad.

 

Allright, you've inspired me :P Hehe

I'm gonna go at it again in the morning.

Was kind of depressing after making little progress all day, and to look at my baby all torn apart . Just really got me down, but, I'm going to stick with it and do it.... I'll keep you guys posted!

Adam