it'd be appreciated

stock heads please

thanx

 

ive wondered this too... id also like to see how they flowed compared to the garbage 187 TBI heads... but thats a whole nother thing. heres a ttt lol

 

195cfm@.500 in.(182@.400") and 110cfm@.500 ex.

But you can easily get them flowing 225cfm@.500 in. and 140cfm@.500 ex. by following the instructions at the end of my sig.

 

The only thing I could find was that they are supposedly "comparable" to L98 heads. Of the data I did find, it is apparent that the heads respond well to 1.94 intake valves and bowl poerting. Apparently, the 1.50 exhaust valves are adequate with a dual pattern cam grind. Lunati has a web page outlining their build of a 343HP 305 using '416 heads and 1.94 intakes, with a little port work. That's pretty respectable for a 305 and stock heads: http://www.hioutput.com/tech/343hp/343hp.html

 

all i know is that the TBI heads are completely different

 

do they really flow that well stock?
thats pretty good

 

Why are you really enquiring?

 

because i have a set i am throwing on my 350

 

just to throw out another question, are all 416 castings perimeter bolt, or did they make center bolt 416's?

the heads on my 305 came from an 87 monte carlo ss with L69 engine.

they are centerbolt, so i may have mistakenly referred to these as 416 castings if they dont exist as centerbolts.....

ok, if they are 081's, could anyone toss me some figures are to how a set of 081's would flow?

 

i was wondering the same thing

what heads are on my 87 LG4?? (centerbolts)

i read that 416's do not exist as centerbolts

but how do the 1987 LG4 heads compare to 416's
i assume the same heads were used on 87+ LB9's, 87+ monte 305's, and the roller 1987 LG4


also what did the 87 monte have? an LG4 or an L69
to the best of my knowledge the L69's last year was 86



i do know the L03 TBI 305 used the crappy swirl port heads

 

416's only have perimeter-style valve cover bolts. They were also used on '85-'86 LB9 TPI engines. All SBC heads from 1987 have centerbolt heads. All of the Lb9 engines from 1987 use 081 castings. '87 and '88 Monte SS's probably used the same heads as well. I don't know what casting '87 LG4 heads, but they are not the same as the TPI castings. 081's and 416's can flow very nicely with a little port work and bigger valves.

 

They will certainly flow well enough to run your 350. But with a good port and polish and valve enlargement job they will add 30 hp easily.

 

How about track times on your sig???? I'd be interested in what that puppy runs!!!

I want to know. I'll pull my heads and start porting, following your instructions of course...

 

I don't know when I can give you any. My tranny slips at WOT on the 2-3 shift. But the drag programs estimate it to be in the 14.5x range.

Yes, do your heads--you will never regret it

 

did not know 416 heads were this decent- as far as stock goes- iveyehave only kept one pair and only cuz i stuck them on a block for storage and have recently started unbolting them to scrap them, hmm maybe i should keep em ? i normally throw away ALL parts smaller than 350, hmmm..

what about 14022601 heads in 81 ? im about to toss a pair of them too, nothing wrong with them other than they are not 350 or 400 heads, so very pointless to keep also..

thanks

 

601 heads are what I used. They make loads of hp when ported and polished

 

i kinda forgot about this thread, just bringing it back up to say thanks to everyone who replied.

hmm, methinks i should start going to the yards and grabbing the 081 and 416 castings

again, thanks everyone

 

OK ... for comparison then, does anyone have flow data on the S/R Torquers and Vortechs?

I was seriously thinking about the 416's - 'cause I too have a set lying around. Then I started thinking was the trouble of porting (especially since I have no idea what the hell I'm doing) worth it, or should I just spend the $$ on new heads.

And I know Sitting Bull - you state that any idiot can do the work, but after reading your thread 10 times +, and reading the instructions from Standard Abrasives, and reading the book "How to build and modify SBC Cylinder Heads" by Vizard, I am still unsure as to exactly where the material is being removed from - and the pics aren't doing me much good 'cause I can't tell where the difference is between them.

 

According to the flow bench work F-Bird'88 has done with 081 and 416 castings, he is surpassing factory L31 Vortecs. His latest set can support over 500 hp. No factory Vortec heads can do that, period. As for the SRs, I think they flow a little less than Vortecs from the factory.

All I can tell you is once you start on the work of porting you will see what needs to be done. It becomes evident that you are removing casting flash and flaws, and generally just smoothing the transition from one area to the next, while opening up the intake entrances to fit the gasket. After doing 8 of each in a row, you will go back to the first few and make touchups because you now have a good feel for the tool and how it works. It is like sculpting. You can't ever learn how unless you try--and then you find it ain't so hard after all

You WILL be fine

 

I agree with sitting bull,
Once you get started porting everything you read becomes clear. I did a set of 416's for my 305 and Im glad I did.

 

How much better does the 305 feel now?

 

well i did alot of stuff at once the car was originally a swirl port stock tbi setup

went single plane, big cam, ported 416s etc etc


to put it mildly,
Its Much faster now.

 

Can you specify the parts? I'm quite interested in your setup.

 

sure

the short block was a low mile .030 over 305 with dished pistons i pulled out of a $500 parts car

the heads were lightly used since a rebuild without porting, I ported them (i should have had the valves backcut too but I didnt know how important that was at the time)
K motion valve springs ... i forget the model but they are supposedly good for .550 lift
SSI camshaft 214/224 with something like .444//465 lift.. i dont feel like doing the math backwards but with my 1.6 rockers they are .474 .498
generic double roller timing chain
Milodon crankshaft scraper (cut to fit)
Crane stamped 1.6 rockers (no roller stuff.. way cheaper)
edelbrock TES headers for the l98 (1 5/8") no cat, full 3" tes catback
port matched edelbrock torker II single plane
stock ignition run by 7747 ECM with my own custom programmed timing curve(with accel coil *twirls finger in air*)
plugged waterpump bypass hole, 180 thermostat with some bypass holes drilled
Edelbrock 1405 600 cfm carb, choke removed. 104 primary jets 98 secondary jets... didnt get to completely tune it still needed a bigger shooter like a .35 and then i could have probably retuned the primaries i left it with the pink pump up springs (if i remember, a step away from stock anyways) and .75/.47 rods (dont remember exactly)
this is all in an 89 firebird with a t5, weight loss program, 3.42 rear with powertrax performance locker

I messed up on a few things i would have done differently. I definately would have milled the heads and gotten the valves backcut. The compression is probably around 9:1 maybe less which is unnacceptable to me.
I also would run a crankcase evacuation system of some sort which i did not do and now the backs of the valves are pretty caked up with oil ****.
I also would have gotten a rear with a numerically higher ratio, at least 3.73 and 4.10 being even better.
That said, the car still is pretty quick. I estimate around 100 mph in the traps and with traction (need alot of new bushings, even broke an axleshaft my wheelhop was so bad) around a 14.0 I was previously messing with a TBI setup on it and with a terrible tune and a 2.4 60 foot it ran a 14.88 at 93.66. ]

It got much faster with the right amount of air and fuel going in

I know of a similar combo with a performer Rpm and qjet with an auto running 101 mph

Id correct these problems if I was around the car. Ive been away from it for almost two years working for Uncle Sam.

sorry for the book but i was bored and you gave me something to do

 

I enjoy reading books

Nice stout combo

 

I have a set of 416s on my recently rebuilt 350 bottom end. I'm running the xr269hr comp cam and the 416s have 2.02/1.60 valves with the chambers unshrouded to match. No port work has been done. The machine shop that did them claim 191 cfm at .400 and 204 cfm at .500. Sounds believable.

Anyway I am running a stock intake manifold with a Q-jet with a b-hanger and ck rods. My exhaust has been patched up a few times since the header and y-pipe install so a length of 2 1/4 inch pipe is in there right now while I wait to get a dynomax 3inch intermediate pipe. And that damn hedman y-pipe is only 2.5 inches. Bottom line is my exhaust could use a little opening up.

I had a chance to run it a couple of weeks ago in the cold and the results where disapointing but show potential.

1/4 mile = 14.8
0-60 ft = 2.5
mph = 98

As you can see traction was an issue. And it wasn't just the kind of slip where it cost you a couple of tenths off the line. It was the kind where you ease off the line and think you are solid and give it full throttle and the tires break loose while you are in the middle of the gear. That kept happening in both first and second gear (WC T5).

I'll bet with a full 3 inch exhaust and better intake I can break 100 mph.

 

It's unfortunate you didn't port your heads while intalling big valves. You missed out on at least 40+cfm. Would have made a big difference in power.

that along with your small exhaust is probabily costing you 60 horsepower and lots of torque. Get a performer manifold too.

 

How well does a set of 416's respond to 2.02/1.60 valves? Are they shrouded/sticking out into the quench area?

Would you recommend it, for a 350, F-BIRD'88?

 

Ye, I have a set of the TPI center bolt heads for the 305( I forget the casting) sitting on my bench. I might get a grinder and give it a shot. You can do the port work before you get the machining done for bigger valves right?

 

I'd go with a 1.94 and 1.60 valve on a 350 with ported 416's
the 2.02 can be done but weakens the head, adds little or nothing in flow over the 1.94 done right.

 

Thats right. Open the bowls out to just a little smaller than the stock 1.84" valve seat. Then your bowl dia. will be just right for a 1.94" 3 angle valve job. When you're all done porting, take them in for a valve job and guide repair and spring mods.

Check your casting # before you start. Your looking for the 081
head. not the swirl port head.

 

Ye they are 081s. The runners look nicer than I remember the 416s looking before I put them on. I guess it's just because the bolt bosses for the valve covers are not protruding down on them.

 

Does anyone know which have better potential for flow when fully ported, The 081s or the 083s (350 heads), or are they pretty similar other than the stock size chamber and intake valve?

 

a pic for you..

 

one more...the porting will begin soon

 

They are fundamentally the same heads, except the L98s have 1.94" intake valves. So just have the 081's intake reamed out to 1.94" and save a hoard of dough. They can be had almost for the asking, so port and polish them, as well, and you'll have a set of heads that will keep you content

 

Good show, Riley!!!

Don't forget, if you need some advice or encouragement just drop myself or F-Bird'88 a line

 

Very nice, Riley. Did you do the unshrouding yourself? Looks very professional!
Any times with the heads installed? Any more info on them?

 

No the heads were done by a guy on ebay,,He was great to talk to. He really thought these heads were the perfect combo for my 327. He machined them for screwin studs provided the studs a guideplates for 500.00 . He says the are at 64cc..Im real happy so far.
No Info Yet! I am still in the " getting started" phase. I will keep you all posted...and there will be a lot of help needed..so stay tuned folks! And SittingBull...you are at the top of my list!

 

another

 

he would have bench tested them for an adittional 40.00.. but I thought maybe after the porting.. Here is a link to more pics of the heads...and my cars and family..
http://community.webshots.com/user/ronniew

 

Hey NT,

How are your set of heads coming along? Any progress or pics yet?

 

Nope, saving up for 1.94/1.60 valves. I figure I'll start the porting after I get the bigger valve seats installed.
They do have to be done this summer tho, so there will be pics of the process within 6 mos.

BTW, did you go with the 1.60 on the exhaust? Or just the 1.94? And who manufactured your valves? I'm thinking either Manley's Street Flo's, or Summit's undercut valves.

 

Nope, just kept them at 1.50" but enlarged the intakes to 1.94".

My valves are just stock replacements. Nothin' fancy. F-Bird'88 said it's not needed.

 

I prefer the 1.60" exhaust valve (on a 350). I've done it both ways.
They may not fit a stock 305 bore thou. Never tried it.
The valve seats (pressed in hardened inserts) do not need to be replaced. A new larger valve job, is nessessary.
The under cut stem valves are nice and probabily worth a few cfm. If, it's within your budget, go for it. I don't advocate a real expensive valve like Manley Severe Duty for this job.
It's over kill. Not cost effective in this application.
The budget street type hi- performance valves are more than up to the job. Race parts are for race cars. Put the $$$ where they'll do the most good.

 

hey you guys... will 416 heads work with the Edelbrock TBI intake manifold? im asking because this is the only direct factory replacement since i live in Cali. i was told the 416 heads(mine are 1986) have different angles than the 92. i just wanted to know before i start stripping the engine. thanks

 

You'll have to dremel the 4 inner intake bolt holes so that they fit the older intake pattern. Not a big deal.

 

The smartest thing you can do in this situation like one poster said is knowing when youre in over your head.
Porting is not selfexplanitory and youre liable to get more bad info than good on the web.
If it were me Id get some dart iron eagles, someting thats better than stock, new and cheap call it a day. There are other heads in that price range

To have a shop do larger valves,seals, springs, etc etc and then port if they know what they are doing will cost some real bux. The guy that takes them on for a few hundred will f them up guaranteed and probably not even be aware of it.

Trust me dont it myself more than once. Takes many yrs to learn....
Keep us posted

Edit:likea dope I posted on the wrong thread lol
Not trying to discourage the DIY....its like a moth drawn to a flame its going to happen anyway just educate yourself as much as possible beforehand.