well today i practiced welding with gas (O\A) for when i weld the nut onto my FPR cap. today i welded a nut onto a freeze plug. This is the FIRST time ever i have used gas welding, so i don't think i did too bad. its definatley not pretty, in fact its pretty ugly, but it will serve its purpose. The only thing i am worried about when welding the nut to the FPR cap is burning a hole through the cap, or getting the weld on the bolt and welding it to the nut. i got a little weld on the bolt today and i was able to get the bolt out, but i think i stretched the threads a little. does anyone have any tips about gas welding or welding the nut to the FPR cap? also what are freeze plugs made out of, and what is the FPR cap made out of?

 

doesn't look like you welded anything, more like brazed, there's a big differance. looks like you were too cold and didn't clean anything. try sil-flos (sp?) and flux it and you'll get better results.

 

Brazed. that was the word i was looking for. i didn't think weld sounded right. (just one more reason i am going to welding school)

i kinda thought i was too cold too, but the problem i am having is how hot should i heat everything up, and how to apply weld (or whatever its called)

I appreciate ur help ede, since i know u are very knowledgeable (sp?) about this subject. and i know this must look like complete crap to you. but practice practice practice.. thank you.:hail:

oh and i must say that it looks better in person then it does in the pic..

 

Breathe,

You're getting there. Not bad for practice. You might want to practice on soemthing just a bit thinner, since the spring can is thinner and it will take the heat faster. (You needed a little more heat anyway.)

Don't be too concerned with excess bronze, since it is soft and can be filed away easily. Just make sure you don't over-apply the filler material so that the bronze gets a chance to wick into the joints completely.

Once you get it painted and installed, it will look just fine.

 

Coulpe of tips...
Use a small tip (000). Use about 3lbs of Oxy and 3lbs of Acel.
Clean any "non-rusting" agent off (galvanizing, zinc plating, etc).
If using brass (brazing) you HAVE to use a flux.
No need for flux if using a wire(like a coat hanger, etc) if welding.
Apply the heat to the thickest metal...you'll need to apply it, take it away, apply it, take it way, etc..
Let the metal get hot and apply the filler rod, only reapply the heat to keep the filler flowing.
Whether brazing or welding, clean the metal with acid...I always do, seems to work the best it both cases, but some say acid is not needed to weld, only for brazing.

Silfloss is pretty expensive, and normally used for copper...kinda a different application as you're doing...never tried it, but if ede thinks it'll work, it probably will. I've only used silfloss on copper tubing...clean the copper shiney, heat it up, the apply the floss...it'll "flow" into the crevices and stick well.

When you get to the "real deal" install a bolt into the nut with Anitseize applied, this will help in keeping the nut from carbonizing(correct word??) and galling the new one when installing.

Edited:

One more thing, when I mentioned using flux, what you want to do is heat the brass rod, then stick it in the flux, what you'll have is this "flower" looking thing on the end of the rod.

Good luck

 

Also to add to that when you are applying the heat to the piece make sure your making circuler motions with the torch becuz it will help heat alittle more then just holdin it there and you wont be heatin the crap out of the tip of the torch. other then that what 8mike9 said was basiclly the way it should be done.

 

Hey, why don't you e-poxy the nut to the cap. I used JB weld and a nylon insert type locking nut, with no problems (I cut the treads in the nylon before hand). Just a suggestion instead of trying to braze something. I doubt the brazing will be much stronger and I'm sure it's much harder to work with.

Grind the paint off.

Or beg a friend with a MIG welder to fix you up, it will take all of 1-2 minutes tops.

Am I missing something here? Why weld or braze?

Just so you know epoxy is the best thing made for applications from 0* to 400*F. What can't it fix except certain plastics.

 

Try practicing your technique on a soda can. It did wonders for me. It's real fun making double decker soda cans and teaches you how to work with thin metals.

 

My first 3 attemps were with JB weld. and i couldn't get it to hold, as soon as i put the cap on and tried to tighten down the bolt, it would come apart.. even when i prepared the heck out of the cap with 40 grit sandpaper and getting it clean as u can imagin. the nut came right off. with this current practice piece. i went to the bolt with a hammer to see if i could break the nut off. and all i did was bend the bolt. so is Definatley stronger then JB weld..


Thanks for the tips guys, i will definatley use them. I am not gonna actualy try to do the cap until next tuesday. so i will have a few days to do some more practice. i am gonna try to find some thinner material tomorrow. i saw a few coffee cans i thought about using. so ill try that. but thanks again guys for the tips.

 

i still think silfloss is the way to go, way easier than braze. i think i saw it somewhere for 10 dollars a package, but you'd still need flux, i use paste silve solder flux with silfloss

 

Breathe,

Ed is probably right. Silver solder will work at a lower temperature and produce a very clean job. Since you've already practiced with bronze, the choice is yours.

One thing I neglected to mention (but Mike covered it) is that you have to remove any zinc plating from the pieces you are welding or brazing. The zinc will become molten at a low temperature and contaminate the joint. Zinc fumes are also more harmful than many other metal fumes, but you have to use adequate ventilation regardless of what you are welding/brazing.

 

just another picture of some practice i have been doing. I need to get something to clean the metal with. what do u guys recomend? it looks better then what the picture shows. as far as the color anyways. i am gonna try to go out today and buy some better stuff. is this copper in that pic? the rod seemed to have quite a bit of green tarnish or whatever on it. and i didn't know how to clean it so i figured it was the best i could find today so i used it. did try some flux that i found though.. which seemed to clean it up some. what do u guys recomend to clean the metal that i can find pretty easily? also i am gonna try to pick up some silver solder today and practice with that..

Ed, what exactly is this Silfloss? i saw some Safe Flo Silver, but it pretty much looked like really thick solder for like electrical stuff. And the other solder rods they had were Aluminum, Copper, Bronze, and Nickle Silver. And that is also the order of the working temps. Aluminum being lowest at like 700 and Nickle Silver at about 1680.

I thought about trying to practice on some thin aluminum sheet metal. Not sure what guage it is. but its probably a about the same thickness as the FPR cap..

 

You're getting it. The right side of the nut looks like it took well. You could use more heat on the freeze plug on the left side. The heat will "draw" the bronze down and will flow nicely like it did on the right side.

Knowing how to weld (or braze) is a very handy thing to know. I got the chance to use a TIG welder as school. I thought it was almost like oxy/acetylene welding...the way the metal behaves. But it was alot cleaner and easier to control.

 

i used to go to skool for welding and i liked tig the best out of most the differnt types of welding. actually i like all welding but not too much oxy/fuel since it isnt used much at all any more.

 

I'm with Ed on this one. Silfloss is the only way to go on something like this. It's alot cleaner, easyer to work with and requiers less heat then braze. Silfloss is very similar to solder but 10X stronger it even gives you more time to play while it sets up. Ive seen packages of it at junk tool stores for $10.

 

Well, time for my $.02.

Looks like you're getting the idea!

Keep in mind to let the heated metal melt the filler. I used to do brazing in a manufacturing process. I believe what we used to braze steel to copper (should be the same for steel to steel) was the nickel/silver alloy. The silver in it makes it flow well, and the nickel is for strength.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that this silfloss stuff (I had never heard of it before!) is a silver/nickel alloy.

As you've already been advised, just be patient!

 

yep silfloss is a nickel/silver alloy, works good when parts aren't as clean or close fititng a silver braze. it comes in sticks instead of a coil, is cheaper and my local tractor supply has it on the shelf.