What do you guys recommend?

We've got a '73 Vette block (350 sbc) that needs bored/crank turned, and a new cam.

Looking to beat a Mark 4 stock Supra (around 13.5)

We've got a set of 305 heads from a TBI '92...

I'm thinking 350, .040" over, crank turned, something like a 214/224 @.050" cam, running around .500" total lift. Headers, 3" exhaust, with no cat... 3.23 posi in the back, with either a 700r4 or a T5 WC (not sure which yet).

Can either carb, or have a full TPI setup standing by (would rather TPI it) with a '730 ECM and full capabilities for custom proms...

305 heads would be home ported, as well as the intake (whichever is used).

What do you guys think? Projected power output? Can it run 13's?

 

Yeah, we prefer to run in the 5-speed, but we know that same 5-speed won't handle the power if we use slicks. So is it possible to use tires with less traction that won't rip the manual tranny to shreds, or will the lose of traction also mean we lose the chance at 13s?

 

That is pretty much my combo that i am building right now, i am using a carb setup.

i am hoping to hit 13's, but not low 13's. I dont think you will beat a 13.5 with that combo. I will be using a 3.45 rear end ratio and a 700R4....i just dont want to spend the money on a T5 and break it, i would rather save and buy a T56. I also think with a cam like that you would be better off with a carb, i think the TPI wont allow the engine to breath at high rpm's like the carb would. I hope this helps.

 

yea go carb...your car will be a little easier to launch because there wont be as much low end grunt like a tpi...although if your car is gonna spend most of the time on the street then go tpi..
your car will pull harder on top with a carb
i dont think theres enought here to get a low 13... you may be able to squeak out a 13.4-5 and the t-5 will handle it so will the stock rear

its your ride do what u want!

 

if those heads are from a tbi, those heads are junk, because they are swirl port designed, you definitely need to get a better set of heads, those will limit you big time.

 

Alright then, what heads can we get best "bang for the buck" and what heads can we get that would give us the best results?

 

416's

 

416's or 081's, with porting they will flow just as good as a set of vortecs

 

And these heads are found on which years/vehicles/engine combos?

 

416's are found on 80-86 305's

i got a set that is like brand new for $50

they are 58cc chambers and flow about 182@ .400 lift

not too bad considering the price and budget i am on

 

Alright cool.... hey, where's the casting numbers on a Chevy motor? I'm a Pontiac man myself....

 

and since i just thought about it... I've got an early (pre '85) 350 sbc... I see no reason I couldn't use just about any heads, right? The TPI base IS basically a standard sbc intake pattern, right?

So where do I find the casting numbers, and just what heads should I search for, in the boneyard...

 

muncie rockcrusher

 

ROFLMAO - no, sorry, if one of them is found around here - it's going in my '81 T/A, not the '92 Camaro

 

well for all intensive purposes........if you can get aluminum L98 vette heads...get those

they cost more though

otherwise go for the 416's

or old skool 2.02 fuellies if you can find them cheap anymore

 

muncie rockcrushers?

 

If the TPI plenum (base) is from a 1986 or older engine, then it will work properly with the pre-1987 castings. Those are the 416 and 601 castings. If the plenum is from a 1987 or newer engine, then you can use the 081 castings. The bolt angles mating the plenum and heads are somewhat different. But the speed shops carry little angle-adapters that fit under the bolts, so if you can get a good deal on one or the other don't pass it up.

The casting numbers are on the top of the head, between the springs and studs.

There aren't very many decent 350 heads from the 70s or 80s. They also have very large combustion chambers, much too large to effectively mill down to size without weakening the casting. (L98 or 083 castings are the exception and will respond very well to porting and polishing. But they are NOT worth paying anything extra for--the 305 castings can easily be made superior to them flow-wise.)

081, 416 and 601 castings all have the 58cc combustion chambers meant for a 305. All they require is 1.94" intake valves and a good port and polish job to flow like Vortecs.

Follow the link at the end of my sig. Good luck and let me know if I can help

 

Any iron casting by World Casting Products.

 

58cc. heads of a 305 are are not a good choice for a 350. The chambers are for a 3.76 bore, not a 4.00 bore. Don't use them.

Get a set of decent heads that will flow, get a carb, and match up your cam. This should yield the desired results.

With the TPI and the 305 heads your limited by your ECM,Plenum, and your heads. If you went this route i would guess 14.0

BC

 

You are wrong. There is no such thing as a combustion chamber "meant for a 305." A smaller combustion chamber, such as the 58cc 305 head has, allows someone with a a 350 to increase their compression.

The other areas of the heads, i.e., intake ports, exhaust ports, bowls, are all more or less the same as L98 heads. So by increasing the intake valve size to 1.94" you have what is essentially an L98 head. Even the Corvette L98 heads have a 58cc combustion chamber. The secret is to port, polish and bowl-blend them for better than Vortec performance.

These heads are cheap at the wrecker and will perform like gang busters when you put a little effort into them.

 

I would look into a set of aftermarket heads, they will be cheaper in the end, and you won't have stock heads.

 

Is it really important to you that the hp developed by the heads on your engine be from something other than factory GM castings???

 

I know what you mean... hmm... I'll be on the lookout, and expect me to report back with what I find in the local boneyards!

 

Home port the heads, like Sitting Bull said! Have the valves (at least the intake valve) enlarged and unshrouded. Right there you've got around a 62cc head. You'll have absolutely no compression problems. It's well documented how well a basic home port job plus these mods can improve these heads to compete with some cheaper aftermarket castings for a FRACTION of the price. With heavier porting like F-Bird has done, the results are quite amazing, indeed! I did a basic bowl blend and exhaust polish on mine with the above mentioned port work, threw in a very similar cam to yours (w/ my 1.6 rockers, same duration), Performer RPM and a well-tuned quadrajet, and let me tell you, once I get my posi in next month, she'll definitely break 14's. With the 3.23 pegleg, I'm thinking that I could maybe even break 14. Unfortunately, I won't make it to the track until I've already got my posi, I'm kind of curious. It's a pretty good, affordable, combo to my mind.

 

Yeah, we might be on a budget, but the porting job we're going to do to the heads will be seriously meticulous. A shop will be hard pressed to beat us!

 

remember not to pay alot for the 305 heads...........i paid $50 for my set that were barely used (they guy i bought them from had them on the 350 in his Monte, but bought a set of 70 vette heads instead, cant blame him) and they still have the chevy blue paint on them


their an excellent bang for the buck head

 

Keep in mind your '92 camaro may be a little pudgie in the weight department. If going fast is your only concern then take anything and everything you can out of it. I've seen people running 12's and 13's on relatively stock junkyard motors only because their car weighs nothing.

The combo in my sig, I'm hoping / educated guessing, nets me a 13.30-13.50 with a stock torque converter. Once I get a converter I hope it'll dip into the 12.60-12.80's as long as traction allows it.

You have no idea how low budget my entire car is --- but it takes a long time to get the right deals on parts.

 

So we should all forget about after market heads that are proven to flow through-out the lift of our cam's and head to the wreker for junkyard 305 heads....Cause they perform like "Gang Busters" ? I could not disagree any more !

Do more homework ! Have you ever measured the combustion chamber on a "305 58cc" head....I guess not. IT's 3.76.

Have you ever measured a combustion chamber on a 350 head...its 4.0. Draw yourself a little diagram of these 305 heads on a 4.00" bore...Then ask yourself if this prohibits air flow.

Upped Compression, Yes. Efficent no !

BC

 

I don't know if you are obtuse, desirous of argument or just can't wrap your mind around what we have done with these heads. We are achieving flow numbers in excess of those provided by Vortec heads. It is also easy to unshround any chamber for use with a 350 or even 400.

If you insist upon disbelieving us just say so. Then we will know that we should just ignore you.

 

*Draws attention to milling for valve unshrouding*

A cheap procedure and one that virtually negates your argument, not that less than 1/4" is making that big of a difference anyways... the compression boost and flow characteristics of these heads more than make up for any such minimal factors. They're not ***'s gift... they're not AFR's... they are pretty damn good heads at a VERY cheap price that can flow as well or slightly better than out of the box Vortecs and do not require a specific intake manifold...

 

Now that is the kind of deal I'm talking about! Just a little bit of work to make them outperform something that would cost way more in the end!

 

Sitting bull, how many hours of porting and polishing do you put into a set of those heads?

 

I didn't give mine the absolutely full treatment that sittingbull and F-Bird, in particular, have done. Just a minimal bowl blend and exhaust polish, and it took me better than 20 hours... It's a lot of work! But it pays off and is virtually free. (Don't forget that I was VERY scared and had a terrible compressor!)

 

You can get some World heads for $500 with 2.02", 1.6" valves screw-in studs, and better springs. Why work on some 305 heads that will cost you just as much + 15-20 hours of your time to get the same power?

305 heads=$50-100
Valve job+bigger valves =$250+
Screw-in studs=$100
Springs+parts=$100+
15-20hours labor (Your time)=priceless

So i ask again, why?

 

It was about 20 to 25 hours. Take your time and be patient--the result is well worth it

 

Most people don't find their time spent working on their thirdgen to be priceless in a negative sense. They enjoy it. But the satisfaction of feeling the power carved out with your own two hands IS priceless

And I've never seen complete World heads for $500.

 

Check out these!!

http://www.competitionproducts.com/page5.html

The Pro Topline Torker are even cheaper!!
http://www.competitionproducts.com/page6.html

 

sitting bull- i think Mr. Mandangelo forget that this is budget oriented :sillylol:


will $1500 heads outperform $50 heads, OF COURSE
can we all afford a set of $1500 heads, not a chance

 

Just posting the facts ! Don't mean to make ya "hot under the collar" But i disagree....

Home porting your "305" heads, and they are flowing better than GM Vortec's ? ? I totally disagree.

World/Dart heads are cheap enough, and you'll be way better off.
The bare casting's I believe are roughly $300.00 each. Fully assembled with 2.02/1.6's maybe $425.00.

BC

P.S
Your "we'll just ignore you comment" was kinda rude.

 

i am all about some of that home porting "i did this so there!" type stuff, but if you have no time and want a good set of out-of-the-box heads, world castings has some awesome stuff. i am going to put some world castings on my motor down the road because they are tried and true. don't think that just taking metal out of runners and bowl blending is all beneficial. it is possible to overdue it. my buddie did a home port job on his big block oldsmobile motor and it was good looking too, it looked very professional and everything. but, when he blew the motor up, and rebuilt it with stock junk yard heads, the car went faster. so be very careful and don't get too grinder happy.

 

You sure those prices on comptetion products web site is per pair? Cause the junk yard heads are 50-100 bucks a pair. and 100 bucks looks alot better than $1000.

 

ME,

All of those heads you listed are very well priced and for someone who has neither the time nor desire to do their own work they are good choices

However, my quote of $400 to do a set of 305 castings includes EVERYTHING--including renting a die grinder, buying stones, carbide cutters and new valves with springs, guides and retainers, plus a three angle valve job.

If a person can get a set already rebuilt for $200 or so, then they are miles ahead of even my $400 price tag.

All of your heads are AT LEAST $530 plus taxes and shipping.

And the 305s will flow just as well

 

Disagree if you please, but we've had ours flow benched and they outperform Vortecs. Whether you "disagree" or not is irrelevant.

So, you can purchase bare heads for $300 each and assembled heads for $425 each.

Hmm, how is that a better deal than $400 a pair COMPLETE?

And you inteject in our thread, telling US we don't know of what we speak, and WE ARE THE RUDE ONES????

Anyway, let's start over and be careful of how we word things, eh? I think we can all get along and if we have a question, we can ask for an answer politely

Talk to F-Bird'88. He will supply you with flow bench numbers showing these 305 heads will support more than 500 hp ... and that is WAY more than Vortecs

 

find a set of used vortecs and port and polish the snot out of those, bet you'd get better numbers for just alittle more money, and you could have the satisfaction of doing it yourself. used vortecs can't be that much, their like $400 or so complete out of jegs.

 

Im not even gonna argue this one any further... You've seem to discovered some hidden potential out of a "305" head.

Supporting up to 500 HP that's freakin fantastic, almost totally unbelievable !

No sense of buying aftermarket heads with years of R & D, when you can buy great performance heads at the bone yard !

 

hey mandingleberry or whatever your name is, sorry to break it to you but i run 11.8s consistently with those heads ported , bowl blended and with the chambers opened up a little. check the setup in my sig. They do just fine with my 4.030 bore and i dont think i would get much more from an aftermarket head but a loss in compression. I do not beleive that bigger valves and aluminum will benefit me enough to be worth the money, sorry but YOU are wrong.


OOO and bassically buying heads like this at the boneyard is a better idea b/c all aftermarket companies did was take a set of base heads.. cast it in aluminum and played with valves, chambers, ports, etc... which is essentially what we are doing minus the 2.02/1.6 valves and aluminum. so for use on a sbc in the street/strip category you can have them work better than vortecs.... and the smaller valves give you some more low-end torque than the bigger ones with very little loss of high end hp.

 

Shot Down!

 

o wait hold on mandingledick.... i think that the last time i checked a bore on a 305 it was actually 3.736, IF you wanna get technical with us. Or maybe my measuring abilitys along with the pistons KB sells for the 305 with a 3.736 bore are wrong or something, they must not have called you up to make sure they're ok yet.

I suggest you not come in here and call US rude and try to disprove what we know with your logic. and in the meantime you try to put a very smart guy like sitting bull on the hot spot, not a smart thing to do. go read his topic on porting maybe u'll learn something about cars. This place isnt for ********* to come into and insult everybody. It is for people who need help/suggestions/ideas for their setup. Now if you have any questions in the future we'll be happy to give our input as long as you can listen.

 

OK I'm gonna jump in here whether I get dogged down or not.
A 305 head has closer valve spacing than a 4in. bore head.
I've seen a few 305 4 barrel head swaps onto flat top 350's and they usually clank like hell because of the poor combustion chamber shape.Maybe some carefull chamber polishing to take care of some hot spots would cure that though.
I'd like to know some flow numbers on a fully ported 305 head at 300,400 and 500 lift checked at 28 in. vacuum.To break into the 11's on motor it has to be at least 240+cfm at 500.
Porting your own heads does give a person a lot of satisfaction.I've done several sets of stockers before usually spending upwards of 20 hours and I also put over 40 hours into a set of 461 castings and they worked real good for the money,I just replaced those with a set of AFR 195's.Good luck

 

Wow, ..No need to get all hot under the collar when all i said was I disagree, and still do.

My comment about rudeness was obviuosly proven over the last few posts. If you have a problem with people disagreeing with you, thats too bad.

I have researched plenty of flow numbers from chevy castings, especially L98 heads...Stock vs. ported vs. budget after market heads...and the non-ported budget heads have always proven that they "narrowly" out flow the professionally ported/polished stock castings.

Facts are facts...

Not really to sure why you message board tough guys feel the need to be rude, when all i said was I disagree.