does anyone on here have a 335 in there car? (stroked 305) the main reason im asking about them is that i already have a 305 block and heads just sittin around. i figured out how i could build one for around 1200 that i think i would have some fairly decent power, the plans were something to the effect of a cam with about .45 lift and about 280 duration, some 110 pound valve springs, weiland exellorator intake, ported 305 heads, and a 335 kit that comes with 10:1 pistons. not sure on carb size yet, but prolly a holley dp. thanks in advance for any replys.

kolby

 

I know you're going to hear a lot of this so I'll say it first.

For the time and $$ spent on putting a 3.75" crank in a 305 block, you could put it in a 350 block for pennies more.

If you're looking to do a basic build up on a 305, that's fine, but K.I.S.S. Don't waste precious metals trying to make a high HP 305. It's like trying to breed a race horse with a donkey. You end up with a half-***

 

the problem (one of them, anyway) with a 305 is the bore size. it would be very hard to make a 305 fast, because even on a 1.94/1.50 head you would be shrouding the valves.

now what ive wondered. is if you had some 1.94 heads cut to accept a 1.60 did alot of work on the exhaust port, and some on the intake, if it wouldnt make a pretty good nitrous motor.


but like was said before. DONT BOTHER. putting money into a 305 is pointless.


adam

 

I had considered doing this at one point - I just thought that it would be cool to tell people that it was a 305. Of course, I could do that with my 355 now too Anyways, the only reason that I could see for doing that would be if you were racing in a restricted class that required motors under 310 or something... Naw, I wouldn't do something like that! If you want to do it, do it. It's a unique combo. However, the guys are right, a 383 is going to make a lot more power for the money!

 

I think I'm one of the only people on the boards that has ever done it

So far i'm pretty happy with it, It feels quite powerful... but the truth will come out in Springtime after the motor is broken in.

If I had a 350 to begin with, well then I'd have either a 355 or a 383 right now

 

i have one in my old car but i don't think it started out as a 305.

 

After you get your butt spanked by a 4.6L stang you can hopefully catch up w/ the guy at the timeslip booth and wow him w/ all the work you did on your 305...

 

If you have the money...swap out the engines...thats what i would like to do but don't have the money yet. If you just want to add some power to a 305 do it...but don't come back complaining when you get beat by ****

 

You can easily make a reliable 350-400hp motor that is smog legal with 400-450 ft/lbs of torque. everybody thinks HP is where it's at and to be honest, on the street, torque rules. 305 blocks are a dime a dozen and yes there are limitations. I have found roller cam 305's that are crack free that people are pay YOU to take them. SCAt has a 3.75" cast crank for as low as $200. The problem is you HAVE to run a 5.65" rod or it is cost is more that a 350 rebuild. Overbored .060" and you have 340 inches but the advantage is the long arm. Run a stock 305 hyper piston. You're never gonna turn this motor over 5500 so you don't need a big valve head. Vortec's work fine with this bore and pick a cam that has no more than .500 lift. I have dynoed this combo with a flat torque of 450 to 3500. 411 at 4500. HP is 355 at 3500. makes an easy 13 second camaro but loads of fun to drive because of the torque. Now if you have a 350 block and make a 383 with this same combo that equates to 500 torque and 365 HP. of course you how have to add bigger valve heads and a bigger cam will make more hp.

 

a 335 sounds like a solid motor for a street car. Granted a 350 will make more horsies but will t make more torque? Prolly not. Go ahead and be diffrent and do it. Don't let others stop you from a good idear.

 

i want to throw some ideas in on this 335 thread........

if you have some good money you can make 400hp and 430ftlbs with that motor......

but thats with alot of expensive stuff also.....

afr 190's, comp 270hr cam, 9.5:1 comp, good exhaust and other little things that you will need to squeaze that power out... and personally a 400hp 305 isn't nothing to snease at.....

but still for you to sink all that kind of money for parts like afrs i'd take 300 go find a 87up block and machine the hell out of it and make a 500hp 355.... just a thought....

 

Yes it will.

$1200 for a 305 stroker isn't realistic. The rotating assembly alone will run about $1500, then there's all of the machine work, balancing, head work, cam, valvetrain, balancer, flexplate...it all adds up fast.

 

That depends on what you have for a rotating assembly, I have about 1100, in my short block and it's internally balanced, cast 400 crank, 350 rods with arp bolts, and hyperutetic pistons, comp hydraulic cam, I plan to put a set of vortec heads on it, with a tpi setup.

 

you don't need a bunch of money to make a decent motor. most people read too many magazine articles and figure they need all the parts in the pretty pictures. The reason I say this is that hopefully you are starting with a late SBC block that has the roller cam. If not, they are throwing these roller 305's away at your local rebuilder or wrecker. your expense, in this case, is the 3.75" crank. the 335 combo uses stock 305 pistons, stock 400 rods just use ARP bolts. some block and pan clearancing is needed. the vortec head works well with this but you need the SD intake and you don't need a bunch of lift with this head. max .500 is all this head flows in stock form. they are cheap. start with a new bare set and get a set of pioneer springs RV1943X with +.050" locks and stock retainers. also add a set of their screw in studs. this will set you back about $125 and then you use stock retainers. remember this is not a high RPM motor. run a 210-220 duration cam.

If you are on a budget and have most of this 335 motor can be put it together for less than what it would cost to build a 350 that you DONT have but of course if you have to buy all the 305 parts it will be about the same for the 350. as for balancing you should always do that anyway. flexplates and dampners for this combo are a dime a dozen too. The best thing to do is build your motor on part with all your parts cost FIRST. then build what you can afford.

yes a 350 with the same combo of parts will make 10-20 more ft lbs of torque and about 10-20 more horses. If you have a 350 block, use it. the 383 that it will yield an additional an easy 40ft/lbs of torque plus you can now take advantage of the 4" bore by using a bigger cam and better heads.

 

{Insert obnoxious buzzer sound here}

WRONG.... let's do the math.



Free 305 + "cheap" stroker kit @ $599 + Clearancing???? + Other issues like trashing a block when you grind too far??? + Special small base circle cam????

Or:

$150 350 core + $150 pistons and rings; no hassle, no grinding; no risk, no special cam, just bolt together and go.



And then at the end you have:

335 cu in.
vs.
350 cu in



So which one is really cheaper and/or better and/or more cost-effective?

You're right about reading too many magazine articles though.

 

why do you think you need a small base cam? does a 400 block need one? Do you need one with a 383 combo? no......it doesn't because of the 400 rods that you WILL need to use for a 335. get your facts straight

 

That's if you use 400 rods.... but none of the stroker "kits" comes with 400 rods. They all come with 5.7" rods, which end up requiring clearancing and other jumping through hoops when used on a 3.75" stroke crank.

There are no 3.75" cranks that fit 1-piece rear-main-seal blocks, so you can't do the old cheapie thing that all of us had been doing for so many years to make a 383 before it became the trendy thing to do, where you just turn down a stock 400 crank and use stock 400 rods. You have no option if you want to use one of those roller 305 blocks but to buy a "kit", which invariably doesn't fit the block as it comes.

Get your facts straight.

 

did I mention anything about a kit? SCAT has a older version of the 9000 crank that uses a 5.65" rod. most of the cranks are set up for 5.70" because they are internally balanced. and yes that would make using them in this combo not cost effective because now you would have to have a set of custom 305 pistons set up for 5.70's

I have my facts straight as I have already built and dynoed this configuration with hard numbers that I posted earlier.

 

i think it would be the other way around. 4.6l stangs are in the low 14's, maybe high 13's. i know 335's that are in the 12's....most are in the 13's....

 

BGNCHRS,

You made over 450 ft.lbs of torque below 3500? What is it, a diesel?

What cam and compression ratio were you using? And what type of induction system? I'd be interested in the combo (for a 350 though).

One more question. Is this NA, forced, or nitrous?

 

So how much does that kit cost compared to a core 350, and a set of pistons and rings?

So which one do you honestly think is going to win the race, assuming everything else is equal (heads, cam, etc.)??? A short-rod small-bore long-stroke motor, or a long-rod large-bore short-stroke one with almost 5% more inches?

 

ill agree that a 350 is a better canidate for building up an engine. cheaper, more cubes, more power, but if everyone wanted to build the same engine, we all would have the same thing. yea, its more economical to build a 350, but the challenge of making a fast 305 is an exciting task.....

 

L31 iron vortec heads with cleaned up ports pioneer springs and screw in studs. I think the comp cam was a XM270 hyd roller marine grind. compression was 10:1. we used a 750 carb to dyno it. no other power adder. this was a very low buck deal just for the heck of it. I would not use this combo with a 350 as you can get more power from the 350 with more cam and better heads. LT4 hot cam, ZZ4 and TPIS ZZ-9 are great cams for 350's.

The 350 would finish 1st in the 1/4 hands down. 0 to 60 they would be pretty close in my opinion.

 

So... that "challenge" and "being different" will cause you to actually want to pay more and get less????

I don't live in a world where I can afford that. I want to get the most I can for my money. I won't pay more to build a 335 than a 350, and get less out of it. That's just plain boneheaded: using your own money as the weapon to shoot yourself in the shorts with.

The only circumstance in which I would build a 335 is where I was required by class rules to use a numbers-matching block in the car. And if the rules were such that you had to run a 305 block but at the same time could build a 335 and be legal, I guarantee the guy in the other lane would be running a 4" stroke.... so you'd still lose.

I really don't see any logical situation in the real world where that's the right combination to build. In any conceivable circumstances, it's either too expensive compared to other options, or delivers too little results, or both.

 

you have some very good points but don't let that discourage others to build something they already have. I referred to this as a street engine and not a "race" engine or street/strip so if you're intention it to build a high dollar 500hp motor then a 350 or 383 is the way to go. Lets say this is your daily driver. Is a 500hp big dollar motor reliable enough to drive everyday trouble free? Let's say you want a motor that gives good mileage and good streetable power. it all depends on your intention and purpose. Look at the kids post earlier about him building one then build it on paper first so you have an idea of the cost.


You can build this 335 motor for cheap if you have engine building experience and know where and what to use. This thing makes torque! most of the parts are stock GM stuff that is available all day long for $0. Look at the stock LT1 cam. you can buy them used all day long for $25. it has decent duration and mid to high .400 lift. Now why would you go buy a NEW comp cam with the same specs? just to have a new billet cam? It's a proven FI and SMOG legal cam that works great with a set of messaged heads. I'll take the $225 that I saved and put that to use someplace else. There are ways to build a better mousetrap.

I'm out

 

Wanna be different? Use a 267 block (3.5" bore) with a 3.75" stroke. That'll totally waste your time and money and you'll be the most "unique".

If your gonna do it wrong, do it right, wrong? I mean right?

 

You can build a stock 350 with no experience and no special parts and no nothing, just a bunch of junk from out of the yard and the cheapest rebuild kit there is, that will cost less and make more power; uses the same cam; passes the same emissions tests; and gives the same gas mileage and the same streetable power as your more expensive 335.

I fail to see any advantage in the 335 approach.

But it still has the disadvantages of the bores shrouding the valves, which limitis the performance that will be obtained with any given set of heads; the fact that there's no stock 3.75" crank from GM at any price that will go into a roller 305 block, so no matter what you have to buy one of those "kits"; and the kits all come with the 5.7" rods that don't fit in those blocks without major effort.

Do the simplest possible analysis of the 2 options... the Column A/Column B method. The 350 will beat the 335 every time, line by line... costs less, less trouble, easier, quicker, you can get the parts at a junkyard, no 400 balancer, no stock external-balance flywheel or flex plate available so that's an added expense, and on and on and on.

Dude, I don't mean to be a jerk, but you're just plain wrong. Every defense you can come up with for building that motor is wrong. So far you haven't been able to come up with one single way that it's better than just getting a 350 core and rebuilding it. And it isn't likely that you'll be able to.

If you build the 2 motors to the exact same level of "builtness" (excuse the made-up word), i.e. the same crank material cast vs. forged, the same pistons whether cast hyper or forged, the same heads, the same cam, the same carb or FI, the same exhaust, the same the same the same; the 350 you have to buy will put out more power, cost less, and be less trouble, than the "free" 305 you turn into a 335, every time. Period. You simply can't come up with any facts to contradict that, because there aren't any.

All I want to do is to keep impressionable inexperienced prospective engine builders from thinking that a 335 is the way to go, because it isn't.

"If it sounds too good to be true, it is".

 

"Everyone tells me im closed minded, why don't you listen i think you might like it!"


Vision ~ Closed minded

 

hey, i gotta say this. not everyone wants a 350...ive got a 305 and im not planning on making a racing motor or anything...i want a 305 with over 300 hp, its something not many people have and u can make ur engine more unique...of course if i had a 305 id be damn happy with it and get more power but i will never regret getting my 305. i may be interested in strokin it which would make it even more unique...as long as ur proud of what u got, it dont matter if ur gonna beat a 4.6 stang...of course itd be nice but with over 300 hp its possible...just wanted to put my 2 cents in

 

Hay buddy go with the 335 if ya want . I want a 427 just to say I have a 427

and I couldn't care what it costs to make .......... good point on the stats of the 350 ...... but those are for people who like saying ....." my #%&*$* is bigger than yours " It's just a matter of principal ..... no practicalness ( my own word hehehehehe) . In a world of boreing 350's w/ AFR heads and a hot cam .......I think it is refreshing to be different.


.....next it'll be the debate on which 3" mandrel bent single exaust is THE ONLY way to go

have fun all

 

My rotating assembly was $993. That is with full balancing, new flexplate & balancer.

 

And to answer any questions about block clearancing, it wasn't that bad. Just takes time and patience.

You've all heard of 383 strokers. Well with my 335 I had to clearance the EXACT same spots. I didn't grind through the block, I didn't need a small base circle cam, and I didn't have to fill the block. It wasn't as expensive as you all think.

Keep in mind I did all the work myself, which means I didn't have to pay mega-bucks for labor.

And to make a long story short, YES a 350 is a better platform than a 335. The reason I went with a 335 is because It was actually cheaper (yes I said cheaper) than for me to build a 350. I won't go into details.. but I priced it out a lonnngg time before I ever decided on what to build.

If anyone has any questions about a 335, just PM me or Email me since it seems I'm the only person that has one on this board.

Later...

 

i love this stuff. why not use a 4" bore to start with, like i did, to make a 335?

 

okay ...I'll bite ...... what was the stroke on the crank that made a 335 with a 4" bore .....and where can I get one ( as cheap as the exsisting one )


sure I'd love the 4" bore idea ( allows for alot more head choices )

 

.060 over 327??

Sounds pretty interesting. I bet that motor screams :hail:

 

I like the feeling i get when after I beat someone, they ask, "is that a 350?" I say, "nope just a 305 with cam and porting" I built my 305 because I was 15 when I started the project and my Dad didn't want it to be too fast. The first time we took it out, he drove it with me in the passenger seat. He goosed it and it surprised the hell out of him. I estimate 300 hp at the flywheel and it makes for a nice rumbly saturday night cruiser and pulls to 6200 rpms. Mate it with a 5 speed and 3.73 gears and it'll kill a 4.6 stang and occasionally a poorly driven LS1, it's about dead even with a well driven 6 speed LT1. Not bad for hardly any money at all.

When it blows up, I'll build up a nice 355 or 383, maybe a 377. There is no replacement for displacement. Don't build a 305/335 unless it's nearly free.

 

Now i'm gettin excited about a 335 ; ). Competition products carries an adapter for $100 to put a crank for a 2 pc block into a 1 pc block.... Stock 400 rods and crank in good shape are damn near free.. hmmm mild cam some port work... Sounds like a fun *** daily driver. All for much less than any 350.

As for costing less? do it right and it sure as hell will
-> stock 400 crank and rods $50 - $75
-> stock crank, rods and 350 block $200 - alot

 

I just happen to have one of those roller cam 305 blocks someone was throwing away...in fact, the complete long block.

THe guy was checking TDC with a TDC stop in the plug hole and he forgot and hit the key... hole in piston!

Anyway, it needed a home and was free so my wife and I drove a few miles and picked it up.

Eric

 

I just don't understand why "unique" is considered an admirable trait for engine building. I thought the point of hot rodding was to go faster than the other guy, not spend more money so that you can say that you're different.

But hey, when I beat your *** in a race and you yell the "but I'm UNIQUE!" excuse, I'm sure I will understand then . Oh wait, then I'll remember that my 396 is unique and fast.

 

But he wouldn't be unique. He'd be just like all the other guys with 305's who got spanked.

 

But he wouldn't be unique. He'd be just like all the other guys with 305's who got spanked. [/QUOTE]





not for long ...... what you got anyways ?

 

well AJ_92RS you are just another looser with a 350 that would get wasted by an LS1 so it is all the same right?

 

No it isn't the same. And don't call me a loser again. No names are more appropriate than making up your own.

FYI I don't have a 350. I have a small slow 305. I'll be the first to admit it. But I'm not going to try and make a fast 305.

Even if I am a loser (which you have no right to judge), at least I'm a smart one.

 

Kids, calm down. He asked a question and was given some sound advice from both the 350 and 305 sides. let the guy make up his own mind

 

there is some guy with a 12 second 305... I will gaurentee that a built 305 can spank a stock 350. And integras can run 8s with sub 2liter 4 bangers. So why exactly do you need 5.7 liters to be fast?

 

ya ..... those Dam 2.0L Also others I prefer not to mention. AH who cares who has the bigger @^#@$$

It's just like sex , not how deep you fish ...its how you wiggle the worm ( this also refers to autoX ) it doesn't matter how big it is.......the guy with the most nerve still wins

and I own a 305 ...not like it matters

 

I don't know why some of you guys are so stuck on a 350.. I mean, yeah, it makes more power than a 305, but if you're going for the most power, uh, well, I guarantee you there's a car that's faster... anyway, in this case, I kinda doubt he's going for the fastest car in the world. it sounds like he wants to make his car faster. period. if he's like me, I like doing mods for FUN.. it makes me happy when my car runs the 1/4 mile in less time than before.. sure, if I had a 350, that'd be better, but he's already got a 305.. there's nothing wrong with building up a 305.. someone said something about what's it matter if you're unique? well, since there's always a car out there that will beat me, hell if I care if I've got a faster car.. I'd like to have something different.. besides, if 99% of everyone had the same thing, how would we know what works better? stop being boneheaded and let the guy have some fun with his car... I mean damn, he's got a v6 in it.. anything's better than that.

(I don't know if any of that made sense, but it made sense in my head when I was thinking it hehe)

 

It's not that you need a 5.7 to be fast... hell look at the Ecotec engines Ligenfelter's building. 1080hp out of a 4-cylinder Sunfire.

Of course a built 305 can surpass a stock 350. A built ANYTHING can surpass a stock ANYTHING. Given enough money and boredom, I'm sure someone would build a self-propelled lawnmower engine that could spank a 350. (And I'd really like to see that actually.)

It's not about the fact that a 305 CAN'T be built up, because most all piston-based engines can. (Don't know enough about rotary and wankel's, but I think there's some severe limits there with how far you can build them up.) The 305 does have some issues though, like the small bore size leading to valve shrouding. But beyond that, if you have the money, you can do it.

But I just can't understand why, if you have the money, you woudln't just drop in a 350, or bigger. More cubes = more power, all else being equal. You can get more power modding a 350 than you can a 305. If you have a 305 block laying around, fine, drop it in, it's better than a v6. Most of the time when a person with a 305 wants to build it up, their main reason for not getting a 350 is either they don't have the money for an entirely new engine at that time, or they don't have the know-how to drop in a new engine. Neither of these really seem to apply here.

If you've got money to burn, go for it.. Certainly nothing wrong with building an engine. I'd rather just spend my money on a bigger engine. Kinda similar to me not doing anything to the Dodge Colt I used to own, and waiting until I got a Camaro.

 

LOL... I think that Colt was louder than my car is now.

anyway, the real answer to his question has been said a few times now... if you're just having fun and don't mind spending the money on a 305, go for it.. build the 305.. if you're trying to get a lot of power, you'll probably want a 350.. if you want 1080hp, go buy a 4 cylinder hehehe

 

I think you've still missed the point though. He's not talking about just doing some minor mods to his 305. He's talking about spending a chunk of cash to buy a stroker assembly and even more cash on the clearancing and machine work to get the rotating assembly into his 305 block. However, this makes no sense for anyone looking for more power because you spend more money on the stroker kit and machine work for the 335 than you would buying a 350, and in the end you still have a weaker engine. No one here is saying that doing performance modifications to a 305 is stupid. Put on a set of Vette heads, put in a cam, a good intake, headers, whatever. But to actually spend the time and money to pull out a 305 and pay someone to stroke it to 335 cubic inches is silly when you can pick up a good 350 for less, and make more power.

It's simple really. Ask yourself, if you were looking to replace the engine in your car, would you rather:

A) Spend $2000 to make 275 horsepower
B) Spend $1500 to make 325 horsepower

These are arbitrary numbers, but for presentation purposes they work. It's simple, do you want to spend more for less or less for more? Once again, this is not about adding modifications to a 305, this is specifically about the logic behind stroking a 305. Us mean ol' 350 people aren't trying to tell you that a 305 is a worthless engine. We're trying to tell you that STROKING a 305 is a waste of money.

So either you're saying that no one with a 350 modifies them, or that the smaller the engine, the more powerful it can be?