What is the cause of this?

Back when I owned a 1991 Firebird it sometimes would not start randomly. The battery engages, all accessories work, but the starter doesn't turn. I have now owned the 1990 IrocZ for half of a year and it did the same thing to me just tonight at the gas station. What is this? Does it have something to do with the VATS? The car comes back to life after not trying for several minutes. ANNOYING AND MYSTERIOUS.

 

Maybe the starter is heat soaked. My old Monte Carlo did that all the time. After 15 minutes or so she would fire back up like nothing was wrong. Just a thought.

 

Hmm, no, it's not the VATS system. If the VATS system detects anything, it responds by not allowing the ECM to fire the injectors until it gets the correct reading from the VATS module. Your starter will still crank, but your engine will not fire. The system will normally reset after 4 minutes.

 

Do you have an alarm with a starter kill?

 

working at a parts store, i see this rather regularly. the problem is probably a dead spot in the starter. if you take it off and take it to a parts store, it will test fine, because the probability of getting the starter to land on that dead spot is low, plus the direct current going into it from the test machine will clear it up anyways. im assuming that if you try to crank it a few times it will eventually start. if thats the case then the starter could fail in the next year or so. im no professional at all, but this seems to be the case in about 85% of people with the same problem. hope i could help.

 

So the start may have a dead spot... hmph. Near impossible to verify with a starter test, so one would just wait until it goes into absolute failure, or swap it out for a new one and eliminate the possibility of it being the starter at all. Ok this sounds viable, but what about the heat soak guess? What exactly does that mean? The starter is absorbing an unusual amount of heat from the engine bay so it doesn't turn until it mildly cools? Kind of like a pencil sharpener or blow dryer (not mechanically similar but symptoms identical).

Negative on the alarm inquiry - the only anti theft it has is the VATS which someone said would not prevent starting in this manner. So it's not the VATS.

 

do u have a amp hooken up to you bat??

 

Heat soak is when the electrical componets of the starter change drastically change resistance or sizes (lack of better term) because they absorb heat from their surroundings. In the case of a starter, it lives near exhaust pipes and the engine block gets hot also. Most of these problems occur with people who are running LT headers, but it can happen to anyone. I have not yet encountered a heat soak problem, but my old car did quite often. Once I fabbed up a heat shield out of some aluminum, I never had the problem again. May or may not be your problem, but its worth mentioning I think.

Peace

 

The starter doesn't turn? As in, you turn the key to start but nothing happens? Then that does sound like a VATS problem. The next time it happens, does the 'security' light stay on? If it does, it's VATS related. VATS will NOT enable the starter to crank. I know this because the same problem would happen to me almost weekly until I just bypassed it altogether. Most likely the key or the contacts in the lock cylinder are worn or dirty.

 

How would I go about cleaning the internals? The security light WAS on. Damnit, who said VATS locks the injectors?


How would I go about cleaning the internals in the steering column?

 

Lol, that was me...my bad. Check the starter enabler relay. It is behind the driver side kick panel. It is part of the VATS system that disables the starter. It's cheap to replace.

 

Was it a 5 speed car? I know with my car, sometimes you have to hit the clutch down a few times to flip the switch that allows you to crank the engine.

 

L98 4 speed auto od bro. Sorry

I will do that... I am guessing this won;t happen again for a long time, and when it does, I'll probably swap a new one in.

 

Although I never got around to doing it, I've heard of people going to the dealership to get a new key made and never had a problem again. As for the lock cylinder, you can try to spray contact cleaner from Radio Shack and see if that helps.

 

i had the same problem... mine happend randomly and finally gave up at the paint shop where i had to have it towed from.......

i had a new gm starter so i knew it had to be somthing else... it turned out the key switch was bad, because when the dealer bypassed vats, it started imediatly!!!! but they are expensive... mine was like 100 for the lock and 20 a key....

 

Yeah, I had to get a new VATS lock cylinder and keys too. What a PITA that was. And $20 a key, that bites.

 

Ugh, I dont wan't to pay for expensive VATS problems. I hope it holds out for a long time before it gives completely. I wouldn't want to bypass VATS cause the car is easy to steal otherwise. The money spent on a new alarm to replace the VATS can just be spent on fixing the VATS... grrr.

 

Well, if it comes down to it, you can always bypass the VATS and then hook it back up when you have the money to fix what needs fixn'.

 

I'll bet you anything it's the starter. Do you hear a click or anything when you turn the key? I had this happen on my 92 Bonneville SSEi. I would keep turning the key, and it would eventually start. Does it ALWAYS start when the engine is cold? If it does, I'd replace the starter with a good AC Delco. Try going out after the car has been sitting all night. Start it up, shut it off. Start it up, shut it off. Keep doing that. I'll bet it starts every time until the engine warms up. Take it for a drive and get it heated up and try to start it. If it doesn't, replace that starter. Matt

 

Nope... car started about 20 different times during nice hot engine temps at the track last night - so it's not a heat problem... I think the "dead spot" theory is most viable if I'm looking at a starter. However, if you read earlier in the post It was figured out that it is indeed the VATS system... If it starts to happen frequently to the point where I want to set the vehicle on fire, I'll bypass the VATS. The only reason I'm reluctant to do so is because without the VATS a thirdgen is childs play for any car thief worth his salt... that and the fact that it happend for the first time with this car after owning it for 6 months! Anyhow - thanks for the instant replies and all the input guys - I love these boards

 

I had a bad neutral safety switch do that to me. I found it when I would move the shifter while in the park mode just wiggled it and turned the key the same time. Started right up until the switch went out.