Went to the track tonight and got some strange results. I am extremely happy with 2 of the runs but really concerned about the other 4. I will try to post the picture of the timeslips. I scanned in both runs side by side. Both rows of numbers are mine. How do I go from 13's to 15's. It was like this all night. I had 2 runs in the 13's and 4 runs in the 15's. It didn't matter if the car was cool or hot although both 13's were with the engine cool. Two of the 15's were with the engine cool. The car is idling really bad, worse in drive. Sometimes it will stall out. I have to keep my foot on the gas to keep it from stalling. Also, right after a run, when I shut the car off, sometime it wouldn't start back up. I had to let it sit for a few minutes. I have checked all the vacuum lines and ignition wires and connectors. I also a tick, tick when in drive and moving. (exhaust leak?) But would and exhaust leak cause the engine to run so poorly?

 

Oh well, I can't get the picture to show up. How do you do that? Anyway, here are the results.


.7440 Reaction .7958
1.9652 60 FT 2.0473
8.6745 1/8 ET 9.5933
81.89 1/8 MPH 69.07
13.4979 1/4 ET 15.43
102.67 1/4 MPH 83.47

 

uhm, hmm, I don't know much about your car or anything besides what's in your post/sig, but are you sure you are getting the right times off your timeslips? 13.4 @ 102mph is rather amazing for a 305 auto with headers and pulleys.

anyways, you should start diagnosing why your car isn't running well. the 15.4 slip is believable for a 305 auto if it's not running right. start with the basic free stuff, check your timing (remember to unplug the computer wire), make sure plugs are gapped ok, make sure all the plug wires are routed correctly and none are crossed over, silly stuff like that. maybe swap a stock coil back on, my experience with accel hasn't been so hot. is the car setting the check engine light, if so check the codes and start diagnosing that. maybe you have a bad sensor or something - who knows. start working on getting the car running right and it will reward you at the track!

 

LOL, I have to agree with the above. Be sure you're reading the correct side of the slip.

hey, did you plan on coming to Nationals?

As far as the no start, you're starter might be getting hot from the headers.

 

I know the times are correct. I was expecting to run in the 13's. I was running 14.4 last year with a very bad shifting tranny and stock converter. The car had a very noticable power drop when I ran the 15's. I set the timing up with the wire disconnected but when I plug the wire up and start the car the timing goes from about 8* advanced to about 8* retard and bounces around a lot. All the plugs and wires are good. Would a vacuum leak cause the car to idle rough and stall? A few weeks ago I got a code 34. I don't think the MAF is bad. Can anything else cause this code?

 

I'm with the others. You may indeed have a power loss, especially if you have run 14s before BUT there is no way you are gonna run a 13.4 with those mods and a 2.0 60ft.
Your dyno runs prove it also. 213RWHP an 285RWTQ won't get you in to the 13s

 

Those are old dyno number from before a lot of the mods were done. I know the car can run 13's. One of the 13's I got was when I was the only one running on the track. There were 2 cars that ran in front of me and 2 cars that ran after I did. My timeslip only had one time on it so I know they gave me the right slip. So, it there anyone that has any information as to why the car is idling rough and keeps stalling.

 

102.6 mph out of an internally stock 305 isn't great, it's impossible

I think something was wrong with their lights or something, maybe debris/leaves/etc blowing on the track or something. While it's not out of question for a basically stock 305 to go 13s, over 102mph with stock cam and heads is just plain impossible. Even if the car was gutted to 2800lbs raceweight i'd have a hard time believing it.

 

 

I tried to post the picture of the timeslip but I can't figure out how to. I'll give it one more shot. Either way, I'm not asking you guys to believe anything. I'm getting on here saying I have the fastest car. All I am asking for is some information about want would cause the problems that I am having as stated in my first post. If you can't respond with helpful information, THEN DON'T RESPOND.

 

Here is the one where I scanned the 2 runs together side by side.

 

dude, we are trying to help. the info you give us "does not compute". something is missing. either the timeslips are not from your car, or the tracks timing system was messed up, or you forgot to mention you're running nitrous or a supercharger, or forgot to mention some major modifications to the car. If we don't understand the facts of the matter, then it's impossible to help suggest what might be wrong to cause the car to run some 13's and some 15's!

If you forgot to mention you're running nitrous or a supercharger, then maybe on your 15 second runs you forgot to turn the nitrous on ir it wasn't working, or a supercharger belt was slipping...

In order to turn a 103 mph 1/4 mile in a 3600lb vehicle, you need approx 300 rwhp, or approx 360 flywheel horsepower. That's beyond the average 350 LT1 and approaching LS1 territory. The reason a lot of us have problems with this is that nobody has ever seen a 305 with exhaust and pulleys run like an LS1 or even an LT1.

Have you considered that maybe the timing computer was wrong and put your runs in the wrong lane? It looks like the times on the right side of the slip were covered up or taped over. maybe the timing computer or person running it goofed up and those were your times even though it wasn't your lane?

The TPI 305 in '85 was rated 215HP net at the flywheel. Say your headers/exhaust are worth 20hp, and your pulleys worth 10hp (i think you'll agree these are pretty generous estimates). That would put you at 245 flywheel hp. 245hp will net you around a 91mph trap speed in a 3600lb vehicle. incidentally, your 213 RWHP dyno matches up fairly well with this.

All I'm sayin here (and everyone else who agrees), is that something doesn't compute. there is missing information, or some of the existing information is inaccurate/wrong.

The best advice that can be given is you need to figure out why the car is running so bad and stalling, and get it tuned up and running perfect, then go back to the track and see how it does.

 

That second timeslip looks like that because I covered the right side with my other timeslip so you could see the comparison between the two runs. It took up too much space for me to scan both slips together. Anyway, I am not running NOS or supercharger on any run. I think the time are pretty accurate because there was such a big change in the way the car ran between the two runs. Just for a second here lets forget about the times. What could be the cause the the car to just drop power after the 60 ft? Here is my theory. At times I can here a loud tick under the hood. This is during the bad runs and sometimes on the streets. I think it is retarding the timing so much and screwing up the run. But what is causing the ticking and can it have something to do with the bad idle and stalling. On one of my burnouts the car stalled also. Could I have a bad MAF? I got a code 34 about a week or so ago but it hasn't come back. Could a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak cause a code 34?

 

jfreeman74, can you please tell us ALL of your mods to the car and the weight of the car. I too find it hard to believe that with just exhaust and pulley you ran a 13.49. Also, with us knowing what you have done to the car, we might be able to tell you what went wrong. Thanks.

 

My car was running like crap in the higher rpm's and we narrowed it down to the ignition. I too heard the tick under high rpm's. My mechanic and i figured it was the pickup coil, but since everything in there looked original i just bought a new distributer (120 Cardone reman) and now it runs it's ***** off for a 305, hope this helps

Also i had previously added a Crane coil, Accel cap and rotor, MSD 6a do try and get rib of the problem, but in the end it was the distributer itself.

-Jim

 

Sounds like yu bottle went flat after the first 13 second runs!

 

Bwahahaha.

I originally had some advice here but I edited the post because I can't stand people that pull crap like this.

 

Could you please post the OTHER 13 sec. time slip you ran. Why does this one say that there was a "FINISH MARGIN" when you say you weren't lined up w/ anyone? 2.0082

I also think that the motor was detonating and the comp. was retarding the timing.

 

This is so much bull****.

First off, he is taping off the car number right above the time column, so you can't tell if the same car made all of the runs.

Then he is taping over the other lanes runs on the slip, as I am sure thats where it shows him running mid 15's with all his other slips.

So what we have is a car that is claimed to be running impossibly fast, but everything on the slips used to determine if the same car ran both passes has been covered up.

Not sure what the angle here is. Perhaps it's aiming for credibility with the "I dunno whats going on guys, but the slips don't lie" approach?

In any case, I think this guy needs to end himself.

 

Dude you are so right!
I looked at the slips again. A 2.0082 finish margin means the "other guy" ran around a 15.4! The "other guy" is actually our lieing 305 guy. You can also tell that the numbers were erased from the ticket after scanning to look like there was only one car.
How lame are you to come on here and ask for our help and lie to us at the same time. Good luck with getting someone to help you now.

 

This is what a real timeslip looks like:

LOL, forgot geocities doesn't let you link.

 

And your point is Danny???

 

I taped the numbers off on the right side of the time slip for this very reason. I knew everyone here would come out and say that the 15 on the right side was my actual time. I taped the top part off because it had my license plate number on there. Come on guys, I don't give a **** if you believe the times or not. I didn't get on here and say "LOOK WHAT I CAN RUN". All I what to know is what could have caused the problem that I posted in my first run.

 

Uhhh, last time you explained that that was a solo run.

****ing liar.

 

I was laughing at your comment.
The rest was meant for the guy that started this thread.

 

Sorry man, I was like WTF!

At first the post was to be a bit funny, but you guys are right. Something is very wrong with this story.

 

That's because it was for a different run, you dumb bastard. If your dumbass could read you would see that I said there were 2 13 sec. runs. Again, I DON'T CARE IF YOU BELIEVE THE TIMES OR NOT. THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF THIS POST. Hell, maybe they screwed it up at the track and it is a 14.4, then the other one is a 16.5. At this point I don't care. I just wanted suggestions about what caused the power loss between runs. Thanks conlinj, you were the only one here that provided useful information.

 

ARE YOU DONE YET? IS THAT THROW OUT BEARING IN? GEEET IT IN THERE!! HURRY UP!! LOOK AT MY CAMARO!! WELCOME TO MY SHOP!

 

WOW! Look at the pic of the first timeslip he posted. It's so easy to tell that he bloted over the right side of the slip in a miss matched yellow color, and added some stupid little black specks for effect after he scanned it.

Your stock 305 with an exhaust and a torque converter runs 13's! Yeah right.

 

I didn't notice the specs, that is classic. That is some CIA quality work.

I think it sounds like ignition issues. Some how timing is getting retarded. Kind of like the post has become.:sillylol:

 

DO the rest of you @$$holez realise he isn't trying to pass offa 13sec run? his car ran 2 sec slower in 2/3 runs, All he is asking is what couls cause that?

Some thing is is broken in your car. For an intermentant problem I would start looking into electronics. Ignition and computer. Hope that helps.

 

No, he IS trying to pass of a 13 second run, just in an offhand way. At first I would believe he was an idiot and didn't know which lane was his, but thats not the case when he goes and modifies the timeslip like the above.

The bottom line is, there is no way that car with those mods is turning those times, and also no way that a car will magically lose 20 mph in back to back runs down a track, then get it back the next pass. Thats on par with losing around 130 horsepower.

BULL****!

 

Using the drag strip analyzer and inputting the conditions:

Weight 3,550lbs with car and driver
Production aerodynamics package
266hp at the motor figuring 20% drivetrain loss
357ft-lbs at the motor figuring 20% drivetrain loss
700R4 with a Shift Kit (.4 second shifts)
Midwest 2800/2.2 Stall Torque Converter
3.42 gears
Shift points @ 5,300rpm's
Stock tire diameter and using a drag radial

My calculation was 13.577seconds at 98.66mph. That was with a 1.867 60ft. This program has been very accurate when estimating my time for my 98 TA. Go figure.

60ft - 1.867secs
1/8 ET - 8.568secs
1/8 trap - 79.63mph
1/4 ET - 13.577secs
1/4 trap - 98.66mph

 

Exactly. And you don't see many stock heads/cam 305s making 270hp. And even by your estimate you are 4mph short of where he 'is'.

Real world example: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ght=vortec+305

vortec heads and zz4 cam +more. And a 5 speed which usually mphs higher, especially compared to a 2800 stall converter. Still only 101mph. And thats with documented 267rwhp. Not theoretical.

But for helpful content. Even a 10mph drop would represent something VERY significant. Even max knock retard would be hard pressed to lose 10+ mph. For something that bad it'd have to be a sensor way out of range, or a nearly dead fuel pump or something. Or maybe headwind/tailwaind (lol)

Don't get me wrong. 83mph is way low for the combo no matter what. But like i said, 103mph would be quite a reach for a bolt on L98 car with a stock converter. I can't say i've ever heard of low 13s and over 100mph from ANY stock heads/cam 305s.

 

The program I use predicts predicts a similiar MPH but a slower overall ET (probably because it can't simulate the advantage of a modern torque converter) based on the numbers quoted below.

jfreeman74, it would be interesting if you could scan in your dyno result sheet.

 

Being the car dynoed 213rwhp and you can figure 18-20% drivetrain loss with a higher stall TC, that would equate ~266 Flywheel HP. The car ran 14.4 before the TC and the TC will have nice gains. On my car, the TC gained 6 tenths over the stock TC. I can believe the car would hit 13's with the higher stall TC. I have been in this particular car and it is a strong 305ci.

 

My point is that ppl on this board are way too quick to call BS. The guy asked a simple question and everyone jumps down his throat beacuse they don't think his car is that fast. That is being jerks if you ask me. If you don't bevilve him... well don't. But there is no reason to flame him to death. I swear too many ppl are willing to turn posts full of potential information for the less informed of us into flame wars.

 

Next, they will say a stock NA head/cam LS1 can't hit 11's

 

We aren't talking breaking 13's here. We are talking a 13.4 run at 102 mph. Thats better than most Lt1 cars can muster, even with a stall like his.

Headers and a stall are NOT going to get you low 13's in a 305 auto. No ****ing way.

As for the comment of...

Nobody is saying that. But what this guy is saying is the equivalent of an LS1 owner running 11's NA with the STOCK heads and cam, IE running a full 2 seconds faster than stock in the 1/4 with nothing but a couple of mild bolt ons.

BULL****!

 

I did a quick check over at ls1.com and it does seem there are a few folks breaking into the very high 11's with "bolt on" lists a mile long..but stock heads and cam. plus they had some level of gutting of the car too. but the ls1 is an amazing motor, compared to, say, a 305 TPI. you can knock almost a full second off a "stock" ls1 time by getting some major traction and being able to hook up out of the hole.

the problem with the 305/auto combo that makes it hard to buy into, is that the published 60' (1.96) is a pretty far cry from the 1.5's and 1.6's needed to make a car post "obnoxiously impressive" times for the combo. Most 350/L98 cars with the same setup have a difficult time getting out of the high 13's. It's hard to fathom a stock 305 on a (relatively) slow 60' blowing the doors off of 350's with comparable 60' times and setups.

Now, I'm not quick to jump up and down and call BS here. I don't like the edited timeslips, but if you simply accept that maybe the car did do this, there is a TON of things that could explain it. such as... (1) car isn't really a 305, but a 350 or even a 400. previous owner could have done this and nobody would know. (2) previous owner swapped on different heads, or gave a serious port job to the stock ones. (3) previous owner could have thrown a different cam in it. (4) motor may still be a 305, but not stock internally. Some of these would also explain why it's running bad if the computer isn't tuned for the changes, especially if there is a displacement discrepency.

who knows. until the original poster gets the car running right, and takes the car to the strip for some repeat runs and posts some more timeslips and info, nobody will know. but if i was he I would be checking into things very carefully why the car is running times that it shoudln't be. maybe he'll find something he didn't know he had.

 

Concerning the 102 mph, hell I'm not sure I believe that either. That's just what the timeslip says. The other run that I had that was 13.785 was at 99.7 mph.

Just so you know, this has been done.

 

Yeah, i'm sure there are 11 second completely unopened LS1s out there.

As for the ET, mid 13s are not completely out of the question, even for a bolt on 305. It's the 102.6mph that jumps out like a sore thumb. Especially with a converter. At best your mph will stay pretty close, maybe slighly increase with a converter (and then usually only in a car that really benfits from the shift extension, i.e. makes all it's power at 4k+)

But like i said, you should be looking for something pretty significant either way. You're down at least 12mph if not more.

 

Could the distributer cause this, like mentioned earlier? Is there a way to test the distributer?

 

Two things:

1. The guy has said time and time again, he doesn't give a flying **** about the ET, nor does he care about what you guys think his car runs. He wants to know why it would drop off like that, either from 13 to 15 or 17 to 20...doesn't matter, but help the guy out.

2. My buddy bought a 2002 WS6 Trans Am 6 speed, and at 532 miles, with the second tank of gas, stock EVERYTHING, I watched him run a 12.90. LS1s are fully capable of hitting 11s on stock heads and cam. Put slicks and your basic mods on and you could be there easily.

 

The idle/stall problem sounds all too much like the EGR problem I had (have) with my IROC. What a PITA the EGR system. It did exactly what you mention for a few days before I actually got a trouble code for it. You may also want to look at the IAC and the TPS. This site has tech articles for all three of these so you may want to check them out.

 

Wow, some of you guys are a real pain in the ***...or just all out *******s.

How many times has the guy told you he doesn't give a sh*t if you believe his times or not?

Alright, I quit reading about 3/4 through this thread because it was really pissing me off how you guys are giving him such a hard time, when all he is doing is looking for help to fix his car, not f'in prove himself to you.

My MAF was dying, and it was totally killing the performance of my car...and every so often it would run like a dream and really run like a mother f'er. I'd say since you threw the code, see if you can borrows someone MAF and give her a few runs and see how it goes.... A bad MAF can give you horrendous idle/stall out problems.... Also, as someone who wasn't being a PITA above - suggested you inspect your EGR...I'd do that also.