well my car has burned oil since I got it, the longer it sits the more it smokes at start up. I could go on about the minor symptoms we all know about when the valve seals have started to go bad but I wont
well now Im not convinced its my valve seals. my valve covers were in pretty bad shape looks wise, so I got some engine enamel and new gaskets and decided to refinish them today.
I pulled the cover on the drivers side, its a bit crudy looking under there but no standing oil.
now I go to the pass side, pull the cover and oil just flows over the side of the engine almost half of the top of this head is full of standing oil. (this is about 2hrs after the car has sat not running)
Ive included a pic, the oil is circled in yellow. Im now assuming this is the reason for my oil burning, smoking at start up, and smoking when the car has just sat running.
now my problem, Im guessing the valley/hole the oil is supos to drain threw is cloged. Id like to take care of this befor putting the covers back on if possable, and even better would be if I dont have to remove the heads to do it, but I have no idea what to try. can any of you please give me an idea of what I can do?

 

Ick, ugly pics.
I'd soak up as much of the oil as possible with rags. Then get a shopvac with a small atatchment (they make them for keyboards and such) and try to suck out whatever is blocking the passages. Be aware, this will make a mess of the inside of the shopvac, clean it completely before using it for this, then clean it up and change filters after.
After sucking out the junk in the head passages (hopefully it will unplug it) reinstall the valve covers, change the oil and filter (use El-cheap-o oil and AC filter) Instead of 5 quarts of oil, do as Vader always says; add a quart of auto trans fluid. Run the engine for 10-15 minutes, run the RPM's up to 2k a couple times to get it everywhere. Shut down and let the oil drain down into the pan good. Change the oil and filter (good oil this time). Pull that valve cover and see if the oil pooled in it again, if it is good, put it back on. I'd also change the oil and filter again in a couple hundred miles and see what it looks like (may still have crud coming loose from the trans fluid flushing)

 

One way to keep the inside of the shop vac clean is to put a big trash bag inside it as a liner, I do that when I have something to vacuum up that is really messy.

 

Good idea.

 

The trash bag is an excellent idea! I can think of lots of times that would have come in handy. Should be safe to suck up oil. Just made me think of a recent incident here in OKC where a guy was working on a gas tank in his garage, and sucking gas out of it with his shop vac. He blew up himself, his garage, and his two cars. He lived. Barely. Matt

 

ewwww thats nasty. My 120k 305 looks clean compared to that. I would clean as much if that up as possible before reassembling. Thats real nasty.

 

I've seen that type problem before, it was on a friends late 80's Camaro he had just bought, we did the shop vac thing and got the oil draining ok, then about 6 months later it spun a rod bearing, we pulled the engine out and on teardown found about half the intake valley full of the same crud and 1/3 of the oil pan!!! The previous owner must not have EVER changed the oil!!!

 

The vac works well. A spoon does pretty good too. Mostly you just want to get as much of it up out of there as you conveniently can. Most of the time, the top of the heads has it the worst, because that's the hottest place in the motor.

After you get as much as possible out of there, change the oil, andrun one quart of ATF in your new oil. Change the oil again in a few hundred miles, or sooner if it starts looking really thick and black. Keep including a quart of ATF in every oil change until the oil quits looking nasty.

ATF is a powerful detergent. It will dissolve and suspend that stuff rather than breaking it loose and allowing it to sit in the motor and plug things up.

OBTW - I have a 78 El Camino 305 that I had to do this to, at about 65,000 miles (when we first got it), because it looked about like that except not quite as much; it now has 345,000 miles on it, with no internal work whatsoever. The intake has never even been off.

 

Hehehe, Natural selection at work. That was just plain stupid.

Let us know how it works out.
As a thought, the thing that may be blocking your oil passages is pieces of the valve stem oil seals. When they get old they turn brittle and start to break apart. If they all broke up I could imagine them jammed into the drain passages, especially the one in the lower rear corner..

 

Thanx for the help you all :hail:
Im gona pull out the trusty shop vac and do as you all recomend some time today if it ever quits raining.
I'll post how it goes once its done.

 

After cleaning as much of the crud with a stiff brush and shop vac you might consider using a length of wire, (clotheshanger?) to check if passage is open. Some crud will probably go down but not enough to hurt.

 

I didn't want to suggest that, he really has no idea what might be down there (just got the car) and I wouldn't want to wedge that junk tighter into the passages.

 

well I cleaned them as best I could today. I used a shop vac as sugested. the drivers side head seems fine. you can hear a distinct sound when the vac nozel was placed over the oil drain hole. I couldnt fine a second drain hole on that head
on the pass head I cleaned up the pooled oil and cleaned the top of the head up. sadly the back drain hole on that head seems completly cloged. I poked at it gently with a metal hanger and it seems to be cloged with the same crud the head is covered in.

so here is where Im at now. Ive cleaned the top of the heads as best I could. I was about a qt low on oil and since I had a little over half a bottle of ATF I dumped it in. Im gona pic up the stuff to do an oil change tomarrow and use 1qt of ATF in place of oil, and continue that every 2 weeks for the next 2 months. Im also going to get a bottle of engine cleaner to put in and run b4 every oil change.
does that sound like it should work to you all?

 

There are definitely 2 drain holes, one at each end. The one that ended up at the front isn't as important as the rear one.

You can't really do any harm by rodding it out with your coat hanger. That's the right thing to do. But if the rear hole doesn't drain, you'll still have a quart of oil collecting up on top of the head there, because of the angle the engine sits at.

The rest all sounds good. Good luck restoring it to usable condition.

 

thats what I though, but I poked around where it should be and came up with nothing.

with the exception of the smoking at start up its ran fine since I got it in January, I just wonder how much the heads being like this has effected performance.

 

i would do the shop vac thing with out the bag just suck it up and get some oil dry and suck a half a bag of that crap up LOLOL

 

my 305 did the same thing because the rear passages were blocked. Looked the same way inside, too. I always think how nasty it looks everytime i walk past it in the garage.

 

Hey guys, would it be a good idea for me just to throw in a quart of ATF my next oil change? I engine runs great, and I don't have a single problem with it. Got almost 200,000 miles on her too! I have no idea how dirty the inside of my engine is (or if it is at all) so would it be safe to put in a quart of ATF next oil change (i'm not running synthetic.) I change my oil every three months. I don't know if this is a good idea though because isn't ATF kinda harsh for a high mileage engine? My only worries are that it will losen dirt/grime and that will then clog an oil passage, then that means a new engine. I mean everyone wants a clean engine don't they? Thanks.

 

Pull the intake manifold. That's the proper way to do it. You want to clean out the head drainback holes but you DO NOT want to poke at it with a hanger. Why? Because you'll drive all that debris back into the bottom end of the motor. You'll lose the main/rod bearings shortly thereafter. If you pull the intake then you can line the valley with rags to catch all debris that is driven out. That is the best way to do it.

Keep one thing in mind though ... if you do pull the intake then chances are that you are not going to like what you find. The intake valley is probably completely caked with that crap.

Tim

 

What about scrubbing the rockers, etc. with a toothbrush/ sm. wire brush & ATF? I wanted to put engine cleaner in my '84 w/ 130,000 but I heard it might put the crap back into circulation and it might cause seal leakage-cleaning out crud that is blocking places that might leak.

 

The proper way is to remove and disassemble the engine, hot tank all parts and rebuild the engine!! Removing the intake will dislodge some crud that go into the pan probably about the same amount as running a wire down 3 inches down a drain hole. You take your chances but most often it will work and patch the problem. My last 2 cents.

 

Well I am not going to remove anything. Not removing the VCs or the intake....so should I run the one quart ATF right before next oil change, or forget it? I mean if my engine has lasted this long, it must be fairly clean right? Thanks.

 

I'd do as RB said and use the ATF.