I went and got some seals at AZ.......for the intake, they came with 8 O-rings and 8 umbrella types seals.....and for the exhaust I just got 16 O-rings......I could have gotten the umbrella type for the exhaust but didnt have the extra $9........


did I get the correct stuff.....Im changing valve springs this weekend and wanted to change the seals too, so I can get rid of the smoke at start-up...

 

i wouldn't use umbrella type seals, go with the positive seals. they look sort of like a pop can, sharp edged, umbrella seals sort of look like an umbrella. i'd also use the o ring but it isn't much of a seal. you'd need 16 o rings total for a v8, 1 per valve, smae with positive or umbrella seals, 1 per valve. you can't use umbrella and postive seals together. there's a thread or two here now with some pics of seals if you care to look for them.

 

The picture is what they gave me for the "intake" for the exhaust they gave me 16 of the O-rings pictured...

 

what you have are positive seals, should work fine and o rings. i'd buy a set of positive seals for the exhaust too.

 

I'll go back tomorrow and get the positive set for the exhaust......thanks ede!...................my next post will be how do I put them on...if someone can show me a picture or diagram that would be GREAT!

 

ede, what valves are my exhaust? so I know where to put the differnent seals? Can you look at my drawing and tell me which numbers represents the exhaust valves?

thanks

 

ohhhh ohhhh me me Just have a look at the manifold and line up the valve that looks like it matches the manifold... and unless someone did it b4, you shouldn't have 16 of those positive seals.. in which case the ones without the big seals are the exhaust.. Also, each cyl. that you do, if you rotate the crank so the piston is at top dead, you a.) won't try to move the car when you put air to the cyl. and b.) won't lose the valve if you lose air pressure.. or put pressure on the wrong cyl.. like i did to rotate crank put a socket on the crank pulley and rotate so as to tighten the nut.. (with tran. in neutral). when you do this you are rotating the engine backwards if memory serves.. so you have to do the math on getting TDC .. crank goes round twice to make all cyl. fire..

 

A question I have here is, How far do you push the positive seals down on the valve? I did this job at the begining of the summer.. every thing was good for 3wks and now it smokes again.. I only put the + seals on the intake side.. as that what was on it.. We figure we messed up somewhere putting the seals on, since it was good for 3wks.. Anyone know how these things go on? Or is there anything better that doesn't require machine work?

 

do what? rotating the motor backwards? you have just confused the hell outta me......Ive been turning the crank with the trans still in park, did I mess something up doing this? do what math? You are the first I have read about when turning the motor clockwise is actually turn the motor backwards...

 

I found this pic of someone taking the valve seal off the stem..it looks like its a good ways down the stem.

 

the positive seals should go on or over the valve guide, or all the way down. then install the spring and retainer/rotater the o ring then keepers. your seals may or maynot of came with a little plastic cap, that's to slip on the top of the valve stem to protect the seals when you install them. after they're on i give them a shot of oil so they aren't dry at start up. i never worried about the engine being at TDC, lot of times the air pushes the piston down.

 

You'l find it handy to use a 7/16" deep socket to push the seal all the way home on the guide. On those seals you don't need to hammer them on, just a good strong push with your hand and on they go.

 

Ok, I figured it out.....Im using the rope method then crankin the motor till it feels tension........Im outside doing the seals as we speak...I removed the springs from the #1 piston......the picture shows what I got......the first stem has no positive seal that I can see only the rubber O ring....and the second stem has the positive type seal and the O-ring....is this correct? the bottom arrow is nothing I have to try and take off?

Dont mind the mangled seal, I took it off and put it back on to take the picture to show you guys.....the O-ring was all dried and in pieces though....


SO I just push the seals that I got into place and replace the O-rings and thats it?

 

Ok heres what I did........Im pretty sure this is correct.....
now let me put the springs on and move to the next......damn Im gonna be here all night...

 

That is exactly the type intake and exhaust seal i use.

You really need compress the spring and retainer, then install the oring.

 

Well, I did mine two summers ago and put the postive seal on both the Int. and exh. and left out the o-rings. So far so good. A lot easier to install the retainer and man did that help the oil consumption.

Auggie

 

When I go to compress the new spring and retainer, the bottom part of the retainer pushes the O-ring down off its little nook......whats up with that......should I just leave the o-rings off? is that really such a good idea?...I dont see any other way to get the O-ring to stay in its place....

 

Well, why don't you install the postive seal on both int and exh??
Anyhow, I think you compress the spring and retainer then put the o-ring on slip on the keepers and your home free. Use a plastic hammer and tap on the valve to seat the keepers.

Auggie

 

I dont see how I could compress the spring that much and then put the O-ring on....the retainer does not slide over the O-ring...

What made you use positive on both? ?

what in the hell do those little O-rings do anyways?

 

Well, thats a good question. When I removed the springs the unbrella seals were laying all over the heads. They were hard as rocks and all broken up. The intake seals were of the pos. kind and were in good shape. Both the int and exh valve stems had o-rings on them. They prevent oil from leaking past the retainer and down the valve stem. The valve springs have them metal shields on them also, so I said I am going to leave out the o-rings and install the pos. seals on both the int and exh. I have to admit I was worried about exh valve stem heat but like I said so far so good. I am sure glad that I went that way. Do one side then go and buy some more of the pos. seals and do the other side. Your choice.

Auggie

 

hers another one for ya?

why is one spring shorter than the other? these are my stock springs that I removed....well its not really a shorter spring but the retainers are different sizes which makes one spring taller...

 

the o ring goes on AFTER the retainer/rotator assembly and befroe the keepers not before, that's why the seal gets pushed off.

 

The assembly is taller but the springs should be the same height. The free length of the valve spring and damper assembly should be 2.030". A new valve spring should have between 80 and 90# pressure at an assembeled height (valve closed) of 1.700" and around 200 to 225# depending on total valve lift. The exh valve retainer is called a rotator. This setup allows the exh valve to rotate to prevent carbon build up and premote longer exh valve life (anyone else on this subject?). When I install the springs on my 406 heads I will elimate the rotator retainers, shields and o-rings and use only the pos. valve stem seals.

Auggie

 

I am SO PISSED! When I went to pull the rope out from the spark plug hole...it got stuck.......well I wiggled it lose but theres still a piece in there.....SO NOW the GD head has to come off!

*&#%^*#^#^(#(#&)(@&@)#*@$&@()$$(@$_!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....

I guess I should start a new thread about taking the heads off....all I have to do is lossen the bolts and pry it loose?

MAN! Im so PISSED! ...this has been nothing but a damn nightmare....the car ran just fine bfore I started Fu**in with it!

 

If the motor turns over, the rope will not last long. It will burn and get blown out, won't hurt a thing. Don't worry about it.

Use better rope. I'd suggest some NEW ¼" nylon.

 

its just stringy piece of the rope...when I tried to pull the rest of the stuck rope out there was a few string pieces of it hanging out of the spark plug hole...I tried to get it out but it just broke off inside the spark hole......the motor turns over fine when I crank on it......

you sure it will be OK? now where in the hell would it get stuck at? what if its in between the piston and wall?


When put my finger over the spark plug hole and crank the motor over to feel the air coming out and suction going in,,,it feels so much weaker than all the other cylinders....and it didnt use to be like that. whats up with that? is that from the piece of string being in there......

 

I wouldn't worry about it. May have gotten caught between a valve and it's seat. It won't last long once there is a fire in the hole.

Can use a cig lighter on the end of the rope to trim the strands off before stuffed into the next cylinder.

RBob.

 

Patience's Grasshopper:nono:.

Auggie

 

:sillylol:

Ok, Ok..........I just get in a hurry all the time.......all the springs are in...WHEW!!!

now Im just waiting on my timing chain and rockers to come in...and I can start putting all this CRAP! back together....my next headache!!! that outta be a fun one!....then once all the motor is back together I need to order my headers and that will be the next headache....

its just one after the other... and my luck the car is going to knock, smoke and all the CHIT!
THAT'S when I PUSH IT OUT in the YARD and POUR GAS ON IT and WATCH IT BURN!!!!

 

I was just reading over on another post about intake/exhaust springs being different sizes and I was thinking....the springs that I put in are the SAME hieght not different hieght like the stocks that came out.....is that going to mess something up....should I have shimmed one spring to be taller than the other? I dont recall the springs being different hieghts when seated in the pockets...


the springs I have in there now are all level being the same hieght..

 

Thats the way they should be. You are good to go:lala: .

Auggie