OK, I've gone through this like 21 times in other boards, and possibly a few times in this one, but I can't seem to fix it....I'ma make an attempt to go into full detail this time.

I have a 1988 "dealer built/bought" camaro with a TBI 305 auto and 2.73 limited slip rearend. It has 133k miles on it, and the head had been blown by the previous owner. But the head was repaired...and when it runs properly, it runs quite good.

I STRESS when it runs PROPERLY.

Here's the thing:

I start the car up...it runs fine.

I drive it, it warms up, no big deal.

All of a sudden, the check engine light comes on(code 13) and the car runs like a dog.

My best explaination is that it doesn't like going passed 2000 rpm(in drive, not overdrive) and if i floor it, it will rev up real high but none of it will get to the pavement, it will be like neutral, but then when it shifts it will shift very hard and go back to the 2000 rpm thing.

I can stop this, by stopping the car, putting it in park, turning it off, waiting 3 seconds or so, and turning it back on.

But then, I have to keep pressing the gas for a few seconds to keep it from stalling, while it gets rid of the code, and the problem.

During this time, it puts out a good bit of black smoke(im pretty sure its gas thats burning...and I'm positive its not oil) and smells odd.

It has done this since I bought the car...and I did give it a nice tune-up a while back:

full synthetic oil
bosche platinum +4s (I don't care what you say, they're not bad)
mallory cap and rotor with brass inserts
bosche wires
fram air filter

When I was pulling the plugs, turned out that 3 were broken...which I thought had been the problem all along(i was wrong)...and they were covered in oil(I'm assuming from the blown head a while back) and the guy had done a tuneup as soon as he had gotten the heads back on, and I imagine he just didn't clean out the engine(actually he didn't..I'm sure of it).

Anyway, the oil looked fresh(though black)...by fresh I mean it wasn't cooked or caked, it was still liquid-ish, and I'm wondering if that means I'm not getting much spark.

Also, I'm sure I need to change the fuel filter...my car almost stalls in sharp turns, while still having half a tank of gas.

Also, I need to change out the tranny fluid, simply because I'm not sure if it was ever done.

Oh, and one more thing, if and when I turn on the air, it seems to trigger this more often and worse.

The air is a whole other story too, when I turn it on, the car bogs down like crazy, like the engine was never designed to run air, its really bad.

My dad said something about it possibly being a vaccum leak, but I don't know.

Can someone help me out? PLEASE? I'll answer any questions you ask that I've forgotten...I NEED HELP, we're going on having had it for a year, and it gets annoying, I can't even take 'er out of town because I don't trust the car yet.

Thanks.

 

Code 13 is the oxygen sensor. Sounds like it's making you run rich.

Have you checked the new plugs after you've driven them a while?

If you're running rich they should be carbon fouled.

 

no, i haven't checked the plugs because of how much ***-damn work it is just to get to em...

but...ya i realized it was the o2 sensor, which by the way, I also replaced with the tuneup...and it still caused that number.

Even if it IS running rich though, would it cause THAT much trouble?

 

Code 13 is lean exhaust. You better change the fuel filter and verify that you've got good spark to all cylinders. Also, if the oil is black.. change it.

Bosch +4 plugs were not designed for our engines. They're made to run in inline volvos and such (they copied the plug style from volvo). If they work for you, that's fine though.

Better change the oxygen sensor if you don't know when it was last done. It's probably well overdue. The air conditioning probably triggers it just because it puts some additional load on the engine suddenly. Not surprising, a/c makes a lot of cars run rough.

To search for a vacuum leak you can spray a little carb cleaner around vacuum lines, watching for the idle to race. Checking the injector spray pattern to see if they are getting clogged might be worthwhile.

 

I'd like to update really quick....

1. When this happens, my radiator is working so "well" that the top hose begins to steam and you can smell coolant.

2. The black smoke...I don't think its gas, I don't really know WHAT it is, although possibly carbon buildup?

I changed the o2 sensor with the tuneup....although there was something wrong, I can't remember what, but I need to get back down there and take a gander....

So you think its a fuel/possible spark problem?

 

Do you have access to a Scan tool?

Code 13 (Open circuit)
From my GM Service Manual Vin E 5.0 TBI engine 1989 (should be consistent for other years as well:

1) W/ Engine at normal operating temp. >176 degrees, run engine above 1200 rpm for 2 minutes

Does scan tool indicate closed loop?

If yes, then code 13 is intermittent.
Normal "Scan" voltage varies between .1 - 1 volts while in closed loop. Code 13 sets in 1 minute if voltage varies between .35 to .55 volts. Could be faulty electrical connections or wiring, as well as other things.

If no,
disconnect Oxygen sensor
jumper harness ckt 412 (ECM side) to ground
Scan tool should display oxygen voltage below .2 volt w/ engine running.

If it does, then you have a faulty oxygen sensor or connection

If no,
remove jumper
ignition on, engine off
check voltage of ckt 412 (ECM side) at oxygen sensor harness connector using DVM

.3-.6 volt is a faulty ECM

over .6 volt, then open ckt 413 or faulty connection or faulty ECM

less than .3 volt, open ckt 412 or faulty ECM connection or faulty ECM

Hope this helps

I also think you need a new fuel pump based on your throttle observations and stalling on turns.

 

Thank you for an answer with some real ANSWERS, instead of just saying random things to replace....

Where can I get a scan tool like that?

How much does it cost?

They have those stupid code readers, but they're a waste of 20 bucks...i have a twisted piece of copper that does the same thing.

 

The DIY Prom board has links to free software for making your own using a laptop. Or you can buy something like an AutoXray ( I think).

Your in Brandenton. Go to www.fl-thirdgen.org There may be some guys in your area that should be able to loan you something to scan your car with.

 

bad link...

nevermind, had to get rid of the www.

 

ok that scanner thing is like 700 bucks, so i think ima try to get something out of a laptop...

thanks for the help

 

I don't know if this will help - please be sure to follow-up when you figure it out and let us all know.

Had a VERY similar problem in my Nissan truck - only difference was that the truck would sort of jerk and buck if I tried to give it any gas - turned out to be the throttle position switch, which I don't believe is a big deal to check (can be done with a multimeter) and also not a big deal to swap if it turns out to be bad. (I also don't believe that it's a very expensive part, either!)

I had to have it fixed twice - the first time I went to the dealer - that cost me plenty, and lasted about a week. The second time I went to a private shop - they knew what it was and fixed it properly. No problems since.

Please let us know...

Jonathan

 

finally! some support to my theory...

That settles it, within th next day or two I'm gettin under the hood with a multimeter.

I'll keep ya posted.

 

A few other things that I would check.
1) Check the fuel pressure.
2) Check the throttle valve cable (detent cable) if your running an automatic trans like the 700R4.
3) Check the hoses for vacuum leaks like a few other people have mentioned.

That's about all that I can think of at this point besides the scan tool idea that the others have talked about. Also, I've replaced 02 sensors before and had them die almost withing 100 miles sometimes. Good thing they're fairly cheap for some of these cars.

-Dan

 

I'm about to say F it and go get one of those 2045838238586-point inspections that cost 100 bucks.

 

The majority of what I wrote can be tested with a DVM (Digital Volt Meter)...

Coolant Temperature Sensor can cause LOTS of problems mentioned also. That can be checked with a Scan tool, or by just swapping in a new one. The AutoXray I was mentioning shouldn't cost over $200. But the laptop route will be better long term.