I need help on which heads to put on my new engine. I am selling the crappy swirl port heads that came with the engine and looking for some low cost heads. I need to fully assembled heads for under $600. Anyone have any suggestions?

Here is my only option so far.
I found an add in car craft for a company that will sell me a set of freshly machined stock heads with the following specs: magnafluxed, bronze guides, 3 angle valve job, bigger stainless steel valves, lightly ported, .510 lift springs all for $500 shipped to my door.




Here is my engine combo:

I just purchased GM goodwrench engine part # 12513151 which is a "5.7L 350 91-93 Caprice, Fleetwood TBI" replacement engine. Here are the spec's:
- 2 bolt main l98 block
- 9.6:1 compression ratio
- Crappy peanut roller cam (replacing with zz4 cam)
- LT1\LT4 rods
- Hypereutectic pistons
- Nodular crank
- L05 heads (I am selling them)

Link's for more info:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=128&pid=105
http://www.paceparts.com/page.asp?id=158

I am replacing the stock cam with a zz4 cam. I have all stock TPI parts that I will port and polish some more for the new engine. I plane on some day buying an aftermarket base and runners or maybe a completely different intake but for now I have to deal with TPI.

 

no one has any ideas for heads under $600?

 

Vortecs with an LT4 hot cam works well with a TPI setup. SDPC sells the entire engine for 3,395 complete with their manifold ready for you existing TPI.

Advertised 357HP and 416 ft both peaking at an engine-friendly 4200RPM.

The heads have .100" removed from the tops of the valve guides and have valve springs that are good to .550" lift.

The short block is a Police package Caprice engine.

 

Summit and jegs carry the Vortec heads for $250 each. Shipping would probably be another $50 though. The springs are fine to .475 lift I think. That with a SDPC TPI base, and you are set..

I really don't know of any standard heads out there that can be matched up evently with the vortec bang for the buck.

 

brand new Vortec heads are like $500 complete...
I got my used pair for $275.

 

i have new stock heads from these guys that have bigger valves and whatnot. it was a cheap solution for me at the time. i will upgrade later but i dont have the money since i am in college and wont have money for a while.

1.94 x 1.5 550 lift
1.94 x 1.5 600 lift
1.94 x 1.6 550 lift
1.94 x 1.6 600 lift
2.02 x 1.6 550 lift
2.02 x 1.6 600 lift

they are cast heads and are basically stock in comparison to aftermarket ones. i have the 1.94 x 1.6 550 lift on mine. the guy said these will work better for my combo on the street. great prices i thought.

 

I already bought the caprice engine. The vortec heads do sound good but with the intake alone is $400 and then I still have to buy the heads so that puts me over my budget. Also I need valve springs that support up to .510 lift for the zz4 cam

 

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You can get a Vortec RPM style intake from
Professional Products for far less than $400.

The only other good alternative is a set of upgraded 305 or 350 L-98 TPI heads casting#081 or 083. These heads respond nicely to porting and larger valves.

Another way to go is to buy a set of rebuilt Late model Camel Back heads with accessory bolt holes. casting#040,041,186,492 ...If these are the casting offered as mentioned above for $500, would be a good deal.

 

What would need to be done to a set of vortec heads to accept .550 lift? I know the flow of vortecs drop after .500. I was looking at getting a xe270 roller cam.

I have the same engine as him but I have a lt4 cam in it now and its carbed.

Right now I could get a used set of sportsman II's, or a set of dart iron eagle (200cc) for under 500$. I may do it I haven't decided yet.

 

As said above I am using TPI so if I want vortec heads I will have to buy a TPI vortec base which is $400 plus $400+ vortec heads which puts me over my $600 budget. If I am mistaken let me know. I think the intake you are referring to is a carb intake.

 

I don't really think you are gonna get a good set of heads, AND an intake for $600 unless you do alot of the work yourself.

 

**** for those prices you can get some much better heads. You can get some Protoplines, Dart Iron Eagles, Sportsmans II, for cheaper. Plus you won't have to get a new intake, or any of that stupid trash crap.

This is why i didn't go with Vortecs, they are not a performance head, never have bee, never will be, and was never designed to be. Vortecs should only be used for close to stock applications!

ME Leigh

 

when i got the heads they were 350 for a pair and i wouldnt have to change intakes since they are not vortecs or anything. they are a stock application head just reworked, some with bigger valves. i dont see how you got the fact that i would have to change intakes with these heads. they are standard sbc heads.

 

I don't want to buy an intake; I am just trying to find what are the best heads that I could get my hands on for under $600. I already have TPI and plan to stick with it for the time being (can’t afford a new intake right now, just bought a new engine).

 

Another vote for the vortecs. You can support a lot of power with these heads and can buy them with further machining done to them to accept larger lift cams. www.sdpc2000.com sells both versions.

 

You guys are forgetting something... Yeah, the Vortec heads are great and very low budget, but suddenly tack on the extra $400 for the TPI intake base hell need, and the prices dont seem so good anymore.

If I were you, Id look for a set of L98 Aluminum vette heads... a complete ready to run used set can be had for $400 or so. 58cc chambers, 1.94/1.5 valves and screw in studs and D shaped exhaust ports... these are the same heads as used on the ZZ4 crate engine. Make sure to get casting number 113 heads.

 

Vortecs would be nice but I can not use them. I would have to buy a $400 TPI intake base plus the cost of the vortec heads which would put me over my $600 budget.

I need heads that work with my stock TPI intake.

 

I would love to use the 113 aluminum heads but I think that would make my compression ratio to high? The engine is 9.6 compression ratio with stock 64cc heads. Wouldn’t putting 58cc heads raise it to 10.6??

If you need to know what pistons i am running, here is a pic: http://www.commonwealthcars.com/memb...S/DSCF0065.JPG

 

No, you can use a thicker head gasket to compensate for any increased compression ratio.

The 416, 081 and 083 heads are ideal for what you want to do, and your budget. Follow the link at the end of my sig for the low down.

 

Sorry to steal in on your thread but,
Does anyone know if you can put 2.02 & 1.60 valves in the Vortec heads or will this be trouble?

 

Even if it did raise your compression to approx. 10.6, detonation wont be a problem, even on pump gas... you gotta remember, aluminum heads disipate heat alot more than iron, and greatly reduced detonation! And yes, thicker head gaskets can compensate to lower the compression, but why lose compression which equals power?

 

But if you decide not to go with the 113's for that reason, I have a set of 083's Im looking to get rid of. Email me if interested or any questions. RPPerformance@comcast.net

 

Yes you can have 2.02 x1.60valves installed in vortecs heads but there is no benefit in flow or performance over the stock 1.94 x 1.50 valves without doing some porting.

If you're willing to do the porting, its worth it.

 

If your compression ratio is 9.6:1 now with 64cc heads, it will be 10.3:1 with 58cc heads

 

Problem I see with vortecs that if you touch the basic flow pattern of the head, you ruin the heads flow characteristics. You cant touch a vortec head to much as much as you can with a regular SBC head.

 

You can greatly enhance the exhaust side of the head by porting. SuperChevy recetly had a tech article on that and they doubled the flow of the exhaust by porting. Intake didn't change much. Now if you are refering to the characteristics of the head with bigger valves than I am not sure on that one.

 

I will tell you from personal experience about Vortecs with bigger valves and a crazy port job. I bought mine and they were originally set-up for a .600 roller. I was using a smaller soild flat tappet so they machined the spring seats for a double spring good for .575 lift and while they were at it installed 2.02/1.60's plus a super, super job on port work to the naked eye. These heads looked great but I then took them to my local shop to get checked out before I installed them a a different mill. They ended up flowing a best of 199.4 @28" at .550 lift. on the intake and 180.3 @28" at .550 and .600 lift on the exhaust using the SF-600 flow bench. now compare these numbers to what these heads flow out of the box untouched and you be the judge. I ended up selling the whole top end I had just bought and got some AFR 210's instead which just got dropped off yesterday for checking and flow testing. The biger valves even with the port work just made the velocity go to helll in a hand basket and realy hurt performance in a big way. So if you have vortecs do some porting of the exhaust side since in stock form this benefit but do not install bigger then factory valves since you'll hurt instead of improve. Scoggy Dickens sells Vortecs for $625 set-up for a .550 lift which is a super deal if any are thinking about it.

 

what is wrong with the heads that are on it now?are they leaking? cracked? or you just want more performance? if the latter is the case, do yourself a favor and deal with it for a while. save your money, and buy a set of GOOD heads. yes, they'll set you back a few dollars more, but the performance gains will be greater.

 

If you can't afford a better base and runners than the stock TPI, you will be limited to what you can do with a set of any type of heads. The Scoggin-Dickey base is about the same price as any aftermarket base.Vortecs particularly the Protopline 906's are much better than the L98's, even ported ones. You can't duplicate the superior chamber design that is cast into Vortecs and any new type aftermarket head, for that matter. But to take advantage of that flow, you are going to have to let it breathe. Restricting a superior flowing head with a stock TPI will disappoint you.

IMHO, if your on a strict budget. Port a set of iron L98's and port your base as well as your plenum. Pick yourself up a copy of the book by TPIS for modifying a TPI motor. Nice tips like removing the MAF screens, K&N filters, etc. Your motor will have limitations but it will be OK until you can afford to do it as a combo.

Point is, a superior flowing head will only be as good as the induction. It's simple physics. If I have a vessel, for example, that will take 600 cubic feet of air but can only feed it 300 cubic feet then in affect I only have 300 cubic feet of air, no matter what my capability is.

 

I think i am going to go with the ZZ4/vette 113 aluminum heads. I can get then for under $600 so they fit my budget and they are better then my old warn out 145k L98 iron heads.

Does anyone know if the vette springs can take .510 lift of the ZZ4 cam?

 

The scoggin TPI motor coupled with STOCK 350 injectors and STOCK intake runners and their base, ported plenum (removed egr walls), stock 48mm TB runs consistent high 12's on good street tires. I've witnessed this myself.

 

I agree with BackinBlack86 and wesilva. I have the same engine and crappy heads and my plan is to save up more money and get some better heads rather than just buy some heads under a $600 budget. If you can, save $200 and buy the matching intake. From my searches, the aluminum corvette heads doesn't have an EGR crossover passage. Just an FYI, just in case the EGR system is an issue. Also, DynoDon did some porting on the L05 heads and got them to put out some decent numbers.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...t=dyno+don+l05

 

Note that the Scoggin base is in fact a "Big Mouth" base. A huge upgrade to the stocker. So in fact you have a great flowing set of heads and a ported base.

I personally think the Vortecs are the perfect head for a TPI motor. If you observe their flow characteristics, they match a modified TPI perfectly! Modified as in upgraded base, runners and ported or aftermarket plenum. Vortecs shine in the low/ midrange with respectability on the top. Exactly like a good TPI. Someone at Scoggin did their homework. Not that suprising.

 

Ok so the SD Vortec base is a good add on to TPI... Thing is, why pay $400 for that, when for an extra $100 you can have a Stealth Ram, which will destroy the SD Vortec base, along with ANY other Tuned Port system in ANY category? It just doesent make sense.

I do think it would rock if Holley designed an HSR for Vortec heads, but I doubt that'll happen any time soon, unless they realise how popular these heads are becoming. Cmon everyone, time to start emailing Holley!

 

The stealth ram is great for power above 5000. Screw that, I have a small block cause I want the low end to pull like a train which makes everyday driving FUN. I LOVE hammering it at 2000rpm and feeling the tires desperately hunt for traction.

integras are great at 5500 and above but that's not the driving experience I'm after ... maybe a little extreme of an example but the HSR worries me on the low end side - from what I've heard.

 

I havent heard of any massive low end loss, just that TPI makes so much low end. HSR is a great all around intake. I think I might go with it soon and they end up putting it on a bigger engine later on.

 

Sorry 'bout your luck on the Vortec heads.

I mildly ported mine with new 2.02's and got 245@28"

228cfm is stock.

Vortecs do respond to porting and larger valves.

Are you sure the shop that did the flow work wasn't trying to drum up some work? Giving you a S&^*ty flow bench report and then offering to fix them up.

Unless the other shop that did the porting work was clueless. Could be but it would take a lot of carving in the wrong spots to destroy the flow like that.

What needs to be done to improve a vortec head is very generic as far as porting goes.

 

I bought the heads from a shop in AZ. that performed all the work on these vortecs including all the maching and port work. The local shop I took them to is very very reputable, in fact so good they do John Forces heads for his funny car, most folks familiar with serious drag racing, truck racing, mud running, tractor pulls all know the names Woody and Radar of RJ Performance and will undoubtly vouge for their expertise in heads. I was able to see some of their expertise tuesday, they showed me pictures starting with a 180lb chunk of billet aluminum which they themselves turned into a a head for a tractor pulling john deere that made 3000hp in a straight 6, I was in awe with this piece of literal art work they made. These guys are old school and a no strings no BS outfit. Woody was telling me for what I WAS planning on doing for a motor they would suffice and was telling me there were other tricks he could do to help a little, but basically was told they were just about done. I have flow sheets from 2 buddies that took their out of box vortecs into these fellas and even they were shell shocked to think mine did so miserably, hence me selling everything I had just purchased and went with real heads and a new goal for bigger hp/tq numbers. I was told that by stuffing the bigger valves in it hurt the velocity big time, and he showed me where in the intake valve was squeezed in the cchamber the one side of the valve was basically useless since the flow was hitting the chamber wall them trying to squeeze around the valve. I have the flow sheet downloaded so if you'd like to see the flow at all lifts I'd be more than happy to e-mail them to you, I'm pretty sure it's to big to post here and shrinking it to fit will make it illegible. I was kinda bummed about it at first sine I had just spent 1800 bucks for brand new everything and was planning a freshin up on my existing short block, but now I'm going for 10's NA so I'm looking forward to the wheel standing and speed in my own car instead of driving somebody elses for the rush!!

 

So what would you bolt the Stealth Ram on? Your stock heads? Holley Stealth Ram improves top end breathing but your going to have to do something to improve head flow to utilize the increase in intake flow.Don't fool yourself. A Stealth Ram on stock L98 heads will not out flow the Vortec/SD base. Not by a long shot. The Stealth Ram was undoubtly made to match the flow characteristics of the Holley Avenger heads not the stock heads. Which gets back to my point. The intake and head swap is best done together regardless of the aftermarket choice you make. That combination of intake and head will not happen for $600, at least not with new parts.

 

When did I ever say anything about bolting an HSR onto stock heads? But Ill play along anyway... I would guarantee that an HSR on a stock headed L98 will make as much, if not more power than a Vorted/SDPC based car, all else being the same. And if anyones acually researched the HSR, they realize that the torque loss is VERY minimal, if at all, not to mention a much broader and useable torque curve.

 

if u look hard enough you could probably find Dart Iron Eagles that cheap if not new slightly used

 

Wow! Either I am totalling missing your point or one/both of us has smoked copious amounts of hippy lettuce.

Originally posted by 88 WS6 TransAm GTA
Ok so the SD Vortec base is a good add on to TPI... Thing is, why pay $400 for that, when for an extra $100 you can have a Stealth Ram, which will destroy the SD Vortec base, along with ANY other Tuned Port system in ANY category? It just doesent make sense.

Does 50 hp over stock with the potential for much more "make sense"? This SD base with Vortec head combo is the most bang for the money. The combo can be had for under $1000 and all the other typical power makers (improved exhaust, chip burning, etc.) will only make the combination better.

The Holley HSR is a great part with great potential. More potential than the Vortec combo but....that potential is going to cost much more than the Vortec combo to realize it. To a guy like 89 IROC Z who wants to spend no more than $600. The Vortec combo is closer to his cost restriction with better results than just the Stealth Ram on his stock heads. Let's look at the cheapest power scenario for the Stealth Ram. In my opinion, that would be the Trick Flow 23 degree heads with the Stealth Ram. A great combination (better than the Vortec combo) but still a loafty $1300 to $1400 depending on where you got your Holley. One of the best power combo's would be the Holley on a set of AFR 190's but now were looking at $1600 to $1800.

As far as your guarantee is concerned....what type of wine would you like served with it.

 

I dont usually drink wine... but a Yuengling will do just fine, thank you.

The reason I brought up the HSR was because he said he is planning on eventually buying a new intake all together. Now, if he were to get Vortecs, every intake would be ruled out but SDPC and a Ram Jet.

If he were to get conventional heads now, he could spend the $600 on the heads themselves, then worry about the intake later, which he plans on doing. I dont like being extremely limited, and Im sure noone else does. Get the best standard heads you can now, use the intake you have, and when you have more money get yourself a real intake.

 

Why don't you just wait until you have enough money to get the vortec and the intake.

 

You also have the super ram to use too. It retains EGR also. All you need is the upper part of the super ram and the runners to bolt to the vortec heads.


edit: fixed it.

 

????

Whats he going to bolt the upper part of the HSR to? The cylinder heads! The upper part of the HSR fits only one thing....

the lower part.

 

No, im saying.. you could use the Super Ram with the vortec... sorry if i didnt include that in my post. All you need is the super ram runners and the super ram plenum.

 

69 MUSTANG from these boards is doing just that. Vortec headed 355 with SDPC base and SR uppers. Its not running yet, so no results as of now. But also, with the base being $400 and the SR uppers being almost $600, thats $1000 for an intake which wont flow nearly as well as one thats half the price.

 

I think that in 1-2 years there will be a vortec base for the stealth ram. Does Speed & Performance have a vortec set up?