Hi guys
i want to dump my stock roller cam and put in a edelbrock rpm flat tappet cam or a competition cam 284 in..
Is this a good move or not ???
Roller cams we get in the U.K are extremly expensive here where flat tappet cams are very cheap?
Any Ideas?
Will there still be an improvement in hp and trQ?

 

what kind of prices are you looking at?

here roller cams are much more expensive too, but by the time you figure in new lifters, and pushrods, it is a wash, and if the money is a wash, why go backwards with the tech?

 

(A new aftermarket roller cam kit here is around £480) A competion cam 284 is £116 Comp Cams start at £105 And new Flat tappet lifters is £42 Push rods Are £23 And an Edelbrock performer Rpm Flat tappet cam kit is £231...
See the difference?

 

Any time you increase the size of the cam from stock specs, you're gonna see an improvement in torque and horsepower whether it's flat tappet or roller. I prefer the roller cams, but if you're speaking strictly from a point of how much money to spend, you can definitely get a flat tappet cam cheaper than a hydraulic roller one, unless you're willing to buy a good used roller cam from someone. That's another advantage of roller cams is they don't wear specifically to one set of lifters, so you can reuse the ones you have with a different roller cam. Oh yeah, almost forgot, you'll need to buy a set of standard pushrods if you switch to a flat tappet cam.

 

So if a get a comp cam 284 at £116 and a new high rev lifter set at £46 and a set of hardened pushrods at £32 this works out very cheap compared to a aftermarket roller cam set...
Flat tappet £194
Roller cam kit £480 or just the roller cam £307....
Is it the same Price difference in the U.S but obviously in $$

 

Flat tappet cams are always cheaper than rollers no matter what kind of currency you're talking about. Roller cams are made out of billet steel which makes them a lot more expensive to produce.

 

like was said there's a big diferance in price here too. i just bought a flat cam and lifter set for a 402 chevy for around 150 dollars and last roller i bought for a 90* v6 was around 425 for the cam alone. you'd be taking a big step backwards going to a flat cam. add up all the cost, not just the cam, and see which makes most sense to buy.

 

the price diff there looks to be the same as the price diff here....


only the numbers are shifted up a bit....


a flat tappet cam with lifters goes for $80 - $150 and a roller cam (just the cam) is $250 - 300+



but, what i would do instead..... find a used roller cam..

roller cams dont wear like flat tappets, so if its in good condition, it can be reused in a diffrent motor.

for a mild upgrade, you can get a used LT1 cam.. and for a bigger upgrade, just find someone selling their old race cam... it happens alot... esp since alot of people want to swap over to bigger cams... leaving alot of the smaller and more streetable used cams in the market.

look on ebay, and if you want to get one that cannot be shipped to there, PM me and we'll see about what shipping would be if he shipped it to me, and i mailed it to you. take a few more days, but it could save some money... hate to see someone waste a perfectly good roller motor with a flat tappet.

 

I guarantee that you WILL lose drivability and throttle response compared to your stock cam. It might be faster at WOT though but IMO it's not worth it. Rollers are WAY better, just save for a good roller like the LT4 HOT cam from GM it'll be worth it. I had the XE268 flat tappet cam from comp and switched over to the HOT and it drove like ten times better on the street and it was way faster at the track.

 

this may sound strange the year range of American cars seem to be either pre 88 or after 94 not sure why?
But these are the most popular years and roller cam setups here are very Rare....

 

That was suppose to be the year range of imported American cars to the U.k or ones registered here....

 

Drivability isnt the main worry....

 

in 87 is when the factory switched to roller in Fbodys and most cars.

the mid 90s is when all of the truck finally had roller cams.

 

do you have emmissions or inspections?

 

yes we do yearly the co content me must be no more than 3.5% and hydrocarbons no more than 1200hc thats for a vehicle manufactored before 1994 after 1994 is the same as The USA......

 

We also do not require Catalysts to be fitted to Vehicles until 1994 onwards....
Things are very behind here in the U.K

 

Whats the specs on your motor? Maybe you could go inbetween and get a solid flat tappet?

 

ive just removed tpi and removed cats and cast headers,
so far its a L98 with standard bottom end and roller cam,Cast iron heads.

I have a Edelbrock performer rpm manifold ,holley 650 cfm(list#6711)model 4165 double pumper,a mechanical fuel pump,a dual points Vac advance distributor and new flowtech headers all to go on after fitting new cam and tappets and pushrods and i may take off the heads and port them...

 

If I'm not mistaken, the price you mentioned above is for a roller cam "kit". If you already have a roller cam it's unnessecary to get the "kit" to upgrade the cam, you just get the cam alone. The kit is already installed in your motor. That makes the cost of an upgrade less than 1/2 of the complete kit cost.
Here, a zz4 roller can easily be found for $135, and sometimes as low as $100.
That's 208*@.050 in. (can't remember exh) but that's a very affordable upgrade over a stock roller.

 

Thanks.....i did list the cheapest price over here for just a roller cam as well it was around £300 .
i have ordered a carb rebuild kit from summit it was priced so cheap compared to here in the UK....they listed it as $23.95 plus packaging..
Here the same kit is £57.95 plus packaging...
I think the only reason things are so expensive in the UK is because we have to pay import tax and V.A.T at 17.5% on top of USA tax.....
i am just waiting to recieve the part and how much more duty i have to pay to see if it worth while ordering my cam from summit too.....

 

gta master, why don't you try to find a roller cam at ebay? Since you use stock L98 heads max. duration is limited to 235-240, I think. Max lift is limited to ~.450" unless you modify valve guides. A camshaft like this costs from $100 to 200, airmail postage is ~$60; even if you'll have to pay VAT and customs, total price is still under 300 GBP.

 

Cheers i may have a look...

 

I am running a Hotcam in my 083 heads with 1.5 rockers with no valve guide problems. (.492"lift) I checked it when the heads were off and it was not necesarry to cut them down.

 

have you managed a 1/4 mile time (aftermods)?
is your 288hp aftermods or before?:lala:

 

I have some old shorty headers from my other car but i like the long tube headers.
can they be fitted to a GTA with no clearance problems?

 

Whats the Maximum lift cam you can fit in a 350 L98 without having to machine the head??
And if i do go back to flat tappet will the block except a .507 lift flat tappet cam with no machine:lala:

 

I have read somewhere that you have to be carefull how much the lift is on a Roller cam engine Especialy if i use a high lift flat tappet cam the lobe could hit the bottom of the lifter valley is this true...if so how much lift can you get away with???:lala:

 

It will be very close with a .500 or over cam, and would suggest you pull a valve cover off and check your seal to retainer clearance befor getting a cam. My 288rwhp is after my mods, but with stock runners and tuning (TPI) It made that at 4400 rpm, so it would make more with a better intake. I am very happy with the results so far and I am hoping for 12.90s at the track this spring. I need to tune it out and I will pick up some more power.

 

Do you think it is worthwhile pulling off my heads to port them?
They dont leak and have never caused any problems?
Any do you know if my TPI heads are pressed in studs or screw in...
if they are pressed in will they require screw in studs to cope with high lifts...How did you do your screw in studs if you have fitted any??

 

The lobes will NEVER hit the bottom of the lifter valley. There can be other clearance issues, but not that one. On Chevys, when added lift is ground into a cam, it's done by removing material from the base circle instead of adding it to the lobe. If they added to the lobe, the cam could get so big that it wouldn't fit through the hole.
I think that what you need is a connection in the states that you can have your ebay and other parts orders shipped to, who can then send them to you.
Everything that you do to your car that improves the performance is worthwhile.
Studs need to be installed at a machine shop. On the heads, it might be worth your while to port them, especially if you know what you're doing, or better yet, get some good aftermarket heads.
BTW, what do your mates think of your Yankmobile? You've probably got a lot of pricey European cars hounding you...

 

Turns lots of heads.....my first car i owned from the states was a pontiac transam 5.0 L69 5 speed manual....But it was in bad nick as i found out the longer i had owned not so much mechanicly but underneath the body and the roof had a lot of hidden rust under the T-Tops where the last owner had decided to hide it with lots of black silicone and it rained inside as much as outside.....Before i got rid of the 84 transam i fitted a new Edelbrock Rpm cam,new edelbrock rpm manifold and a new holley 650cfm double pumper and didnt it shift after that,.....but i always wanted a 350 cui...
I then paid £6995 for a Jap import 1990 Nissan 300 fairladyz Twinturbo with engine mods to stage 3 already done cars dyno supposedly at 386hp i was informed by the dealer...
But i sold that after a year in favour of a 1989 Pontiac Transam 5.7 Gta which was in good nick apart from a few small paint bubbles near the bump strip on the doors and rear quarters....Only has 82,973 original miles and still was completely stock including still having Dual cats after having 6 owners in the UK.....
The nissan was good once you got past the the Turbo Lag and very Quick when the turbos kicked in but Jap insurance is 75% dearer than UK cars of same perfomance and you may not believe this but USA cars are 50% cheaper than most average UK cars....
You cant beat RAW at the slight press of the pedal American V8 Power .....

 

My first thought about this cam thing was, "why not just order from the US?" Well, I see you have considered that already, but I have to add that in almost all cases, it's far cheaper to import anything from the US rather than buy it here in Europa, even with duty, VAT (buy tax) and postage. The only time it really makes sense buying anything locally, is when you need something asap, or the part itself is fairly cheap, like sparkplugs, filters etc.

I've ordered parts from all over the US on a regular basis with luck. Even stereo parts, casio calculators ($200 here, $53 delivered from US) and lots more. The largest single money saving I did, was when I wrecked one of my original 16 inch aluminum wheels. The dealer here wanted $1050 for it, 8 weeks delivery.
I ordered a used one from ebay $129 delivered to my local postoffice, included our 24% sales tax, airfreight, local postage and handling, and it arrived after 3 weeks.

I dont see why you also would'nt get these gains as I do, after all, taxes in general are much higher here in Norway than in the UK.

The biggest difference about Europa and the US when it comes to the sales of parts for american cars, is that they (US) generally tend to have a much larger customer basis and because of that, they can have a much smaller earning in % on each part.

Here in Europa we dont have any warehouses like summit, p.a.w. or others. We have smaller firms in each country, and here in Norway, there isn't even a single company that covers our relatively small country, instead there are several smaller firms and outlets with different owners, often family owned, of each one of them.

So then you have more owners, stockholders and employees per customer, and that means more people is trying to make a buck of you when you buy anything here. In addition to that, being that all the firms are alot smaller, they don't get any of the big company's synergie effects and the more cost effective logistics of the big ones. That's the real reason behind the big price differences.

By the way; I use a freight forwarder with a US mailadress, so I'm able to get cheap and sometimes free US postage to the airport from where it's shipped to Norway. They're called Jetcarrier, but I dont think they operate in UK, but you're bound to have some similar company's. I tried getting some price quotes from UPS, DHL, TNT and the other big ones, but they tend to price out small customers since they would rather have contracts with big firms and not sole individuals. UPS was 600% more expensive than Jetcarrier by the way, so there's money to save on freight, that's for sure. Sorry for the long post..lol

 

Stock heads have pressed in studs. It's a good idea to use screw in studs if you're running around .500 lift or more. If I were you though, I'd only do the screw in studs if you plan on removing your heads for any other work such as porting. You have to remove the heads and take them to a machine shop to have screw in studs installed as they have to machine the stud boss flat, then drill and tap it to install the studs.

 

I edited something in my last post. The part about doing the headwork now. Putting in a cam and doing an intake upgrade and a top end job is a good plan if you have the space to keep all those parts organized.
I'm not 100% sure of where you are in your project, progress wise. But if you got the ZZ4 roller cam and did some other upgrades to it as well, especially some headers/ exhaust mods, then maybe some head mods w/ 1.6 rockers. You'd be pretty happy with the way it turned out.
I'm just suggesting the ZZ4 cause they're very easy to find at a low price and it would work well with your combo.
Time to get a HEI too ....dual points???
Anyhow, it kind of sounds like Mr Dude could be a good parts middleman for you, he's on the east coast.
You gotta have a nice loud exhaust too.
Make everybody know you're coming!!

 

Yes i agree but also no one has answered my last question ...do i have to fit shorty headers to my GTA or can i fit Long tube headers????
I would prefere long tube

 

There are lots of choices for long tube headers, they're tougher to install tho and require a new exh system I think. I'm gonna try some 1 3/4" ones someday. That seems to be best from what I've read.

 

Shorty headers are offered by more manufacturers and usually are bolt-on, if you use 'em with y-pipe from the same manufacturer.
Long tubes are produced by Hooker, Hedman and maybe one-two others. They require some invention and custom fabrication in our cars - it's to tight under the floor and between frame rails...

Cheers Andy and Happy 2004 - I'll be there 1 hour before u and 6-9 hrs earlier than our US members :-)

Mike

 

Cheers to you too and good luck for 2004 too.....:

 

And While im Here... Have a happy 2004 to everyone else here at Thirdgen.....

 

I measured my L98 heads a few years back (before I threw them away ) They can physically take a lot of lift as long as you have the proper springs (and studs) to handle it. From the retainer to the guide was like .600+ if I remember right... But, why would anyone do that when L98 heads could never flow that high?

 

Maybe they could if they were gas flowed and ported?

 

rhuarc30 (later changed to 31) has posted some valuable info about porting these heads, if you search for his posts there're also flow results given.

 

Well, in my opinion why spend all the money on porting, new springs, ect when you could probably find yourself a set of used heads like Vortecs for fairly cheap and end up going faster? I don't know how easy it is to find parts in your neck of the woods but it shouldnt be too hard or expensive to get yourself better heads rather than wasting your money on the L98's

 

Heads in this country start at £308.73 each bare and that would be for the World product Sportsman 2 Cast iron Head.
Up to the AFR 195cc street heads at £1606.71 a pair assembled.
We do have Edelbrock performer rpm heads at £1022.94 a pair and Edelbrock Victor Jnr 23 degree Race heads at £1084.68 a pair with valves only...
Can anyone suggest if these are good prices??? and remember these are in pounds sterling incuding tax...
Which ones would be the Best to fit...?

 

And how much would you have to pay for same heads in the USA in dollars with Tax?:lala:

 

Summit (www.summitracing.com) sells many produsts of these brands and ships internationally, too. I always check prices at their site, usually cheaper offers can be found only at ebay.

 

Has anyone ever put there own screwin stud in their heads and do you have to flatten the tops off where the screw in studs go or can you just tap the holes and screw the studs in?

 

There are kits to do it, but they're no good.
You're supposed to be able to use a hand held drill. The thing is that the studs need to be very well aligned and that's something that can't be accomplished with hand held tools. And the stud bosses need to be faced to the same height as well. A drill press won't get the job done correctly either, it needs to be done on a mill. ...Sorry
You can pin your press in studs tho.

 

Ive never heard of stud pining how would you do that?
And would this allow slighty higher lifts ?

 

mounted carefully under it, a drill press could easily be used to pin em....


when using a mill for somthing like that, its just like using it as a drill press..... *shrug* its only a hole thru the head and stud... its not like it has to be perfectly flat or at a exact angle or somthing that needs the precision of a mill.


The gta master:
theres been a couple recient threads on it with good pics.
ive never done it to any of my motors, by the time i needed them for the cam, i always had screw in studs.... i have stood there and watched a buddy of mine do his on a drill press.... just dont do what he did and drop it. hehe...