I'm hoping I can get this 400 block from GMI Fast, but I need to keep this as low budget as possible but still fast enough to school any viper that wants to play.

Here's what I'm thinking...

-Stock 400 crank, hopefully in good enough condition, just a polish
-Stock 350 5.7" rods polished and ARP bolts because the stock 400 rods are crap (might think about some aftermarket 6")
-Some cheapo forged pistons like TRW scored from ebay or swap meet to get compression around 10-10.5:1
-SBC 400 gasket set from ebay for about $40
-Try to find a crank damper on ebay, maybe go aftermarket
-Stock flexplate if I can get my hands on one
-Aftermarket mini, high-torque starter that will work with my 400, just so I won't have to worry about those wierd 400 starter bolt hole problems.
-Victor Jr. intake (port matched to heads)
-Holley HP or Demon 750 double pumper (maybe 850)
-.600+ lift, single pattern, .245+@.050 duration, solid roller cam
-RPM rev kit
-retro fit roller lifters

The heads are the only the only thing I'm going to really splurge on besides the carb because this is where I'm going to be making the power since it's not going to be supercharged or juiced...I'm thinking AFR 220's, maybe Brodix...just something that flows extremely well that will match the cam and probably a 3250 stall converter.

I'm hoping the rpm range will be between 3000-6500. I want to be able to run 93 octane, run high 11's, low low 12's, and not break my rods/crank trying...

Is this doable for under $4000?

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1982 Camaro Z28

trying to make it worthwhile for the spring....

Check the website for progress http://members.fbody.com/Pro82Z/

[This message has been edited by crazeinc (edited January 23, 2001).]

 

Crazy

My 408 I am in the process of putting together will run me about $2500, I got a real good deal on the block, crank rods and pistons. he owner only wanted what he had in them. We came to the price of $600. The block had been machined with a TQ plate, Rods were resized. Pistons were Hypereutectic. The only slight dislike the rods are stock length. I have ordered a set os Dart Iron Eagle heads 215cc intake ports. They are $999. Yes I know this is more then Summit and jegs sells them for. But my machine shop suggested I not go with the preassembled ones. Plus they warrintied the ones they sold me. I'm not going to argue. The speed demon carb is the remainder of the $. I am hoping for low 12's. We will see.

Later
Spud

------------------
82 Firebird,355,Cam 224/234, .466/.488,TH350 Tranny,650 HolleyDP,Hooker Headers(I.E. POS) Manual steering
Best 8th et 8.62@80mph.
NEW for 01
A 408,dart iron eagle heads,street dominator intake, 750 SD,cam 229/239, .497/.520, Also a big hole in the hood.
Shooting for 12's.

 

Trouble with preassembled heads is that they may not have the springs you need for your cam choice. Too light and you'll have valve float. Too heavy and you risk wearing out the cam or valve seats.

As for the cost, go to a machine shop and ask how much to do all the machining first. A little bit here and a little bit there all adds up. The machining just for my short block came to just under $1500.

Hot tank $35
Bore block $120
with torque plates $120
Shot peen rods $96
ARP rod bolts $70
resize rods $96
install cam bearings $80
Balance $250
Check and polish crank $35
Rod bearings $35
Main bearings $55
Hone rods and install pistons $100
Mock assemble to check deck height $60
Deck block $120

Total with tax came to $1478.74 Canadian. Your parts cost will be cheaper but labour rates should be around the same and the machine work would be the same if it's a big block or a small block.

Add in the cost of the pistons, rings, frost plugs, misc seals and gaskets and the cost comes close to $2500 Canadian (parts cost more) and thats just the block with crank, rods and pistons installed.

All my bills are stuffed in an envelope. I'm estimating the total cost to build my engine including every bolt and gasket I have to buy will come in around $7000 and I already have the ignition system and carb from the old engine.

Key to building an engine. Make sure it comes with as many parts as possible. bolts, brackets, tin and anything else you may need in the buildup.

Then again look at my old 383. Heads, intake, headers, carb, cam cost me around $2000 in parts and labour and some of them came with the engine, to make the engine push the car into the 11's. Bottom end was completely stock.

Ebay is a good place to look for stuff. The machinist that did my heads is building a 434 and has picked up all sorts of stuff from ebay. He figures he's saved about $2000 in parts already. And that's savings after he got the stuff shipped across the border.

As for a converter choice, the best way to determine the best stall speed is to get the engine dynoed before you buy a converter. If not then it's trial and error on the stall speed. The stall speed of a converter can be different on different engines and vehicles. My converter is rated at 3800. It may stall at 3800 with the big block in a 2500 pound car but only stall at 3000 with a 350 in a 3500 pound car.

Enough rambling....

------------------
Follow my racing progress on Stephen's racing page
and check out the race car

87 IROC-Z Pro ET Bracket Race Car
383 stroker (carbed) with double hump cast iron heads and pump gas
454 Big Block almost ready for the 2001 racing season

Best results before the 383 blew up
Best ET on a time slip: 11.857 altitude corrected to 11.163
Best MPH on a time slip: 117.87 altitude corrected to 126.10
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP based on power to weight ratio: 476.5
Best 60 foot: 1.662

Racing at 3500 feet elevation but most race days it's over 5000 feet density altitude!
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association

87 IROC bracket car, 91 454SS daily driver, 95 Homebuilt Harley

 

I have a 400 block and crank for sale, won't go into details unless you want me too..

$550

 

I'm getting the block from GMI Fast for only $250 and it's been sonic tested, so no thanks Mac, but would you be willing to separate the crank? You shold just build that up and throw it in the RS!

 

The Cost/Power ratio of the 400 is too much for me. They are the ultimate when it comes to small block power, but you gotta put some serious cash into them.

Here's the info on my block for anyone interested.
http://www.nethirdgen.org/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000113.html

 

says who? put the same 350 parts in a 400 and you're bound to get more power regardless of the quality.

 

your plan sounds pretty good with the exception of the rods and pistons. i would definately get 6" rods. even with 350 rods, the rod angle on a 400 is crap. i have 6" Eagle H-beams, but if you want to keep the cost down, you can get Eagle I-beams from Jeg's for around 299. trw pistons suck. they are heavier than crap. I have JEs, but there are other choices that cost less. KB hypers are a good choice.

That cam sounds pretty damn huge too. 245* duration @.050 is a lot, but it will work fine. the lift may be excessive. i am not convinced of the benefit/cost ratio on roller cammed street cars, though, especially solid rollers. you have to adjust the valves like on ancient muscle cars, no thanks. my uncle has a roller with dart aluminum heads and nitrous in his corvette and i smoked his *** with my non-roller Comp XE 284. it has 240/245 duration and .507/.510 lift. I am sure i will break into the 11's next yr and that is enough to school any stock viper. you might be able to take some cash saved by using a non roller cam and upgrade your pistons and rods.

i think any way you put this 400 together it will be fun, i'm just trying to give some insight based on my recent experience (my 406 was completed this past May).

good luck

------------------
88 S10
Dropped 3/4
Dart equipped 406
12.20 @ 115.25 mph

 

crazeinc,
I have a stock 400 damper if you are looking for one. $30

406S10,
I am building this 383 with the Comp XE284, and I see you have that cam. What do you think about it? Likes,dislikes?


Thanks!

------------------
350 4 bolt main, Speed-O-Motive 383 stroker kit, re-sized rods ground for clearance,TRW Forged pistons,10.7:1 compression,HPC Coated RPM intake, Speed Demon 750 cfm carb,World Products Sportsman II heads,2.02/1.60 valves, Comp Cam 1.6 roller rockers, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,240/246@.050 with .540 lift,Crane pushrods,Proform HEI and MSD6A box,HPC coated 1 5/8 headers, 2.5" exhaust with 40 series mufflers,TH350 with B&M 3000 stall, Powertrax NoSlip Locker, 4.11 gears.

 

Polecat,

I love that cam. i drive the truck to school and to work and anywhere else. there were days that i would take my beater to the downtown campus and get the truck on the way to work. it is not a chore to drive with that cam at all. it definately does not drive like you might expect a low 12 second vehicle to drive at all. it idles a little high, 900 to 1000 in neutral 800 in gear, but that is a small price to pay.

if you don't have one, get a converter in the 3000 range for stall. mine is a TCI Streetfighter which is rated for 2800-3200 and probably stalls around 3100. it is perfect for street driving and works great at the track. with a tighter converter, you will have all kinds of idle problems. i had a tight 2500 stall in there the first yr and the thing would not idle worth a bent **** . it died unless my foot was on the gas all the time. i played with the idle mixture and everything else and it would not get better. the TCI fixed all the idle probs. just read your sig, sorry.

there is not a whole lot of vaccuum for your brakes, but mine are okay and i did not have to add a vaccuum can.

if i were to build this engine again, i would use the same cam. i think that is about the highest praise anything can get.

it was great fun smokin my uncle too. he gave me tons of crap about the first 406 blowing up. this winter it is my turn to gloat. hehe

------------------
88 S10
Dropped 3/4
Dart equipped 406
12.20 @ 115.25 mph

[This message has been edited by 406 S10 Man (edited January 25, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by 406 S10 Man (edited January 25, 2001).]

 

S10,
you using 1.5 or 1.6 rockers with that cam? I checked out the specs on that and like it as well. I think I'm going to go with a pair of worked over chevy #993 heads, that cam, a new Holley HP or Demon Race carb, and that same converter because I was looking at it from the start. I also think I'll hold off on the 400 project unless this block becomes available (I'm second on the list) and just do these mods to my 350 and have some fun at the track this year...not to mention save a boatload of cash.

 

406S10,
great. thanks for the feedback. i am really looking forward to hearing it. I am using 1.6 rockers too, so it may get interesting.
As long as it pulls good and has decent idle and vaccum.
Start assembly on the shortblock tonight.....I'll let ya know Monday!

------------------
350 4 bolt main, Speed-O-Motive 383 stroker kit, re-sized rods ground for clearance,TRW Forged pistons,10.7:1 compression,HPC Coated RPM intake, Speed Demon 750 cfm carb,World Products Sportsman II heads,2.02/1.60 valves, Comp Cam 1.6 roller rockers, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,240/246@.050 with .540 lift,Crane pushrods,Proform HEI and MSD6A box,HPC coated 1 5/8 headers, 2.5" exhaust with 40 series mufflers,TH350 with B&M 3000 stall, Powertrax NoSlip Locker, 4.11 gears.

 

I am not aware of any mini starters that have the offset bolt holes. You will either need to drill it or use a old style.

 

i am using 1.5 crane blazer rockers. they are in summit for 160 bucks.

hang on to your *** in the midrange rpm level. that is where that cam really shines.

------------------
88 S10
Dropped 3/4
Dart equipped 406
12.20 @ 115.25 mph

 

My mini starter can be used with both ring gears. The block needs to have the bolt holes straight across not diagonal. There are 2 sets of holes in the starter mount depending on what ring gear is used.

I'm glad I picked one up to save weight. I did a mockup of the engine on the stand and held the headers up to the heads. A factory starter would not have fit. The header just clears the mini starter. I may have to fabricate a heat shield for it.

 

just some info on the starter thing. i used the gm 502 mini starter, it has the diagonal bolt pattern and clears headers

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86 camaro 405 sm. blk. th 350 tranny 3.42 gears