hey guys just got 3100 canadian for my dj stuff. would like to hear what you guys can help me put together a 400 with, I only have the block. but haven't got it bored out yet. so I need everything, its going to be a daily driver, summer driven. with a 700r4, or if I find one soon enough a 200r4. want to have at least 425hp, as i figure that give me the power capabilites to run high 11's. I want to be able to run on 91/92 octane, which is probably equivilent to 94 octane for american gas(canadian gas is better for some reason?)i'll be gettingthe motor balanced. and would like to go with roller cam and rockers. if you have any links to ebay stuf that you find, show me etc. or just give me your opinions

cheers

blake

ps, should i go with a electric water pump?

cheers

blake

 

Are you building it yourself? Is your $3100 for parts only or for labour as well? A set of decent heads will eat up a large portion of your budget, and a roller cam kit will eat up a large part of the remainder.

 

Ape hit it right on. good heads are not cheap. And i dont think 400's were ever drilled for roller setups so you are pretty much going to have to run retro fit rollers. If youre budget is as such, there is nothing wrong with flat tappet. Both have the ability to make power.

 

425 hp isn't going ot get you anywhere close to 11s in a street legal street weight f body. the 400 block not accepting the factory roller set up isn't a big deal, actually it might even be an advantage not running the factory stuff. i wouldn't run many used parts and i wouldn't run an eletric water pump on a steet use car

 

what about edelbrock RPMS? local speed shop has them for 1200 for the pair
think he said they'r elike 72 chamber and 170cc flow...

cheers

blake

 

Here is what my setup is:

406
afr 195's
victor JR.
Demon 750
10.4 compression
Probe flat top forged pistons
H-beam rods
1.5 roller rockers
TPIS ZZ-X camshaft
comp cams retro-fit roller lifters
Super Comp long tubes.

This should run 11's with right gears and converter. Also, I don't know the conversion for the dollar amount so this actually may go over your budget. Just giving you an option. Here is option 2:

406
stock rods with arp bolts
stock crank
cast dished pistons
vortec heads with screw-in studs and guide plates
comp xe 274 camshaft
Performer RPM intake
750 double pumper
1.5 roller rockers

This option saves money on bottom end parts but will still hold up ok. This should give you the 425 hp you're looking for. Ede is right about the 425 hp not getting you close to 11's. It'll take about 500-525 hp with right gearing and traction.

 

Shouldn't Edelbrock heads be 64cc?

 

well I went to my local speed shop and for edelbrock RPM heads, which flow at 220 cc max intake and like 176 exhaust, air gap, speed pro hypreutic or whatever flatt tops, bearings and rings and so far its 1500, which is canadian... and pretty good. he recomended a crane enegizer 268 grind believe, for a mild lift.



well 425 will be my goal.

 

They make 70cc and 64cc versions of the Performer RPM heads. For that much money, i would think they could flow a little bit better. And if all they flow is 220cc intake, stock vortecs out flow them

And Crane doesnt make the 268 grind. Thats the Comp Xtreme Energy XE268h.

 

oh.. ok, I see now. Why not go for the 64cc set though?

 

According to Edelbrock's website they're 73/61 @ .100, 140/108 @ .200, 200/144 @ .300, 238/163 @ .400, 244/175 @ .500, 244/183 @ .600

Might want to check the compression math on those flat-tops with 70 cc chambers. A 268 cam might be a little mild too.

 

You'll be getting the engine balanced, as in internally balanced? That will eat up some $$ cause you need an aftermarket crank etc...to do it.

If you meant external balance, then that's cheaper because you keep the stock crank. BUT - if you want 11's, may as well get the bottom end beefed up. XE268?? I have a XE274 in mine. You'll need more than that to reach 11's IMO....

Definatly need at least a retro roller hyd cam, better yet solid roller....more $$$....how would I know? In my sig. Notice I didn't go roller, but I wish I did, but like I said, it adds up.

It's not in my car yet, but should be in a week or so.

 

are you kidding 1200 canadian is cheap, thats like what 750 american. this is being brand new, I'm shure they can supply me with both sizes of chambers, I think its the 70cc one as they said it would be better to keep the octane level down/compression. and it probalby was the comp cam.... he said the 268 or 274...... remember 11seconds is just a goal. if its going to be funner to drive on the street with lower end hp and more torque with the 268 than I'd go with that. but seriously what kind of lift should I be looking at using, and duration? would I be looking for the same specs for a roller cam? and i would probably be using 1.6 roller rockers

cheers

blake

 

Roller rockers are going to eat up another chunk of change.

What are you using for a crank?

 

No, I'm not kidding! Let's see...you have 1200 canadian to invest in heads. That leaves 1900 from the original 3100 you had to finish the rest of the engine with. Do you have friends at parts stores and machine shops? You'll need them.

Sorry but I'm not trying to be a smarta** here, but when you say 11's - that's a lofty goal for a street driven car, even on a bottomless budget. Yes, you'll be looking for different specs on a roller cam. I highly recommend you call one of the cam manufacturers tech lines to see what they recommend. They'll ask you specific questions about your setup.

Biggest advantage in a roller cam is it's ability to get huge lifts with a shorter duration than a flat tappet could acheive, and it will have much better street manners while doing it with higher vacuum at idle to support your street accessories. That's why in hindsight, I kinda wish I would have forked over the extra cash to get the retro setup.

That being said, if you want torque, I can tell you that my setup was just dyno'ed at 490 ftlbs. at 3400 RPM's. Good luck with it!

 

ebay heads iron eagle stage2 well how is somethign liek this for a head, works out to be cheaper than the RPM as well. but has 64 cc combustion chambers, woudl go with a forged aluminum dish probably, at least thats what the local engine builder recomended so that way the piston gets full travel to the top of the cylinder head where as a flat top would be a little lower(highest points on the pistoin)

cheers

blake

 

Those intake ports are 215cc, probably way too big for a street car.

 

I disagree, depending on what cam he choses, 200cc's may be just fine. If its more of a stout cam, 215's could be used. If this were a 350, then id say yes, thats too much cylinder head. However, this is not a 350. this is a 400. And 400's can use more port size. But again, that ultimatly depends on the cam that is chosen.

 

many people recomend a comp extreme energy 274, but I want a roller cam. so whatever roller cam is identical to the 274..... any part numbers?

to big for those heads? they come in all sizes..... and they're cheaper than the RPMS

cheers

blake

 

ummmmm no you dont talked to my dads friend who would balance this and said he does it all the time....???

maybe your thinking of something else. spayeding the crank I think is what its called...?

 

Nope, confuzed is correct. All factory 400 blocks were externally balanced. All 350's, which is what you are probably thinking of, are internal. Unless you are thinking about ading Mallory metal or something crazy like that, but i dont know how that would work.

The closest cam, in the Xtreme roller series is the XR276hr, or 12-423-8.

The only thing close to "spayeding" that i know of is Splaying the main caps, which has nothing to do with an engines balance.

 

I think your just gonna have to have more money. I looked how much $3100 canadian is worth....$2300 US dollars....

Now you only have a block, have you had it checked out? magnafluxed/hot tanked...etc?

Figure $500(us dollars) to bore/linebore/deck etc...machine work on the block.

So now we have a block ready to go, and $1700. Need a rotating assembly(pistons, rings, rods, crank) A cheap cheap one without anyhting forged is around $800. So now we have $900 left.

rod and main bearings + Gasket set ~$150....$800 left.
New head bolts, pan bolts ...etc bolts~$100...$700
water pump, oil pan etc ~$200....$500

And you still need heads/intake....things add up fast.... good heads are $800-1300

I would maybe look into a crate engine...

 

like jack said it that movie, "you can't stand the truth" or something like that. i think it applies here too.

 

hmmm doesn't need to be line bored, getting it bored and magnafluxed for 125, ARP bolts for internals and accesorries 300,
say those edelbrock heads, 1200, flexplate, 95, gasket kit for motor 47, head gaskets 96, plugs 28.96. KB dish pistons making 9.5 compression with these heads 370, air gap intake 225, holley 750 double pumper 350, valve covers 141, msd wires 48, MSD box and dist. 500, didn't get a quote on an oil pan and pick up but lets say 180 and pump.

so thats:

125
300
1200
95
47
96
29
370
225
350
141
48
500
180


so far thats almost 3800

still need a water pump, pulleys, nice rad hose
fuel line, I got a BG500 electric fuel pump, so a regulator.


I dont know if I'd go with that distributor, or those heads yet, and those pistons, rotation assembly can be found on ebay for cheap, probably 300 for stock

 

I built my budget 400 with stock crank, 5.7" 350 rods, Extreme Energy 268 flat tappet, ported Vortec heads, KB hyperuetectic pistons and Total Seal Max Seal rings. It cost me $700 for magnafluxing, boring, honing with deck plates, decking, line honing, vatting, and balancing the assembly. All told it cost me a shade over $3200 and it is a high 12 second motor in my '66 El Camino at sea level. Intake, ignition, wires, high flow water pumps, carb, headers, oil, antifreeze and the countless other items really add up fast.

 

ya, but I'm a thrifty shopper what can I say? lol..... I'll keep you guys posted, I think those RPM heads might be a godo way to go, just go keep the cooling down, and also keep the onctane level down as it doesn't get hot spots as easy as the iron heads, and saves weight right? I'll probalby just go with a flat tappet cam, upgrade later if I want. just to much money right now.

just gonna get a price on some more stuff let me know if there is anythign else I Need to add to my list to get a quote on

arp bolts
carb
gaskets
spark plugs
msd wires
dip stick
flexplate
intake
wires
heads
alt and power steering brackets
pistons
rings
bearings
crank
rods
distributor
oil pan
pick up
oil pump
roller rockers
cam
lifters
timing gear
balancer
pulleys
alternator
fuel bar linkage for double pumper
timing gear cover
k&n filter and filtertop
starter
engien brackets(v6 to v8 car)
water pump

anythign else/ smallest things... cept oil and anifreeze

what are the cheapest headers , full length I shoudl go with?

he wants 601 for super comps




cheers

blake

 

You don't plan on reusing anything at all from your current engine?

 

yes the only thing I do have the block, right now the camaro has a V6 in it.... can use alternator and power steering, and pulleys.

cheers

blake

 

tryt this for 525hp

 

I think Riley forgot to tell you about the 6-7 lbs of boost youd need too to make 525hp with that....lol :lala:

Or a little more description than a 9:1 400 with dart II heads

 

that is sick lol


well I found some dart pro one aluminum heads on ebay, trying to get the seller to send to canada for a total of 975 including shipping. 215 with 72cc chambers

cheers

blake

 

I may ahve left a little out .... but Ill post a time slip next week ...ok!