Ok now that I've got your attention, I'll first let you know that this is no joke. A friend and I are going to be doing a 355 powered RWD 1990 Civic hatchback, aptly named the "CiV8ic". We're getting a rolling shell for $100 so we figured why not try our hand at something wild. So where I need your help is figuring out a good motor combination. And I figured where else to go other than to the good guys at thirdgen.org
-First of all, this is going to be a drag car that will see some street duty in the form of the local cruise nights. So this motor has to have some manners, ie a decent idle and good reliability with little chance of overheating.
-Second, I am not looking for a specific 1/4 mile time, because I really dont know what the car is going to end up weighing yet. But as an estimate, I'm place final race weight at no more than 2,500 pounds.
-Third, we have 2 goals for power. If we end up going N/A, its 500bhp. If we go supercharged with the BDS 8-71 I can get my hands on for crazy cheap, then our goal is pushed to atleast 600bhp.
So what I'm asking of you guys is some ideas for heads/cam combos and what will work best with both the N/A and blown setups. Assume that N/A we're going to use an RPM Air-Gap manifold and a Holley 750 with vacuum secondaries. I was thinking about a single plane manifold to keep low end torque down a bit too. Any thoughts on that??? Also we will be using either a TH350 or TH400, and after I know what kind of motor we'll be using I'll decide what convertor and rear gear to use.
For the heads, I would like to keep the cost below $1,500 for an assembled pair. I was thinking a pair of Dart Pro 1 200cc with a 64cc chamber or a 72cc chamber with the blower. Another head I saw which I really like are the TrickFlow Kenny Duttweiler 23* heads in Summit. Any other ideas? I was thinking some AFR 190's, but I dont know how much those are going for and I dont know yet who sells them.
As for the cam, I really have no idea. A custom grind would probably be best, but I would like to know if you guys can recommend any particular grind so I can play with some number in DesktopDyno 2000. I know I want to keep the exhaust side slightly tame with the boosted motor, but N/A I'm looking to go as big as I can and still keep some street manners. As of right now, the xe274hr is making some pretty good numbers in DD2000 with both the blower and N/A, but I think that might be too aggressive a cam for a blower motor. Once again I'm not too sure, so you tell me.
Thanks to anyone that can help me, and I will post updates of the project if you guys want to keep track on how its going. Should be one hell of a car once completed!!

 

I can see it, I can sense it, an almost feel it............A lock.

 

Take out the civic crap and this would be the same question everyone else askes here, so Ill just go off of the engine part of the question....

Compcams has some nice blower/turbo grinds you should look into.

AFR 195 heads would be a great choice. I Loved them!! $1260 shipped... http://www.jdsperformance.com/index....nmake=all&pg=1

An Edelbrock RPM air gap or a Victor Jr would also work well.

 

Why would this be locked? Im asking a legit question, and this project is for real. Im dead serious about everything. And I did do a search for about an hour last night trying to find info on building a potent 350-355, and I really didnt find anything useful other than people saying "get Vortec heads" and "go with a stealth ram" which are not options here. If this does get locked, I want a damn good reason for it

SweetS10V8 thanks for the link to the AFR's and the videos you sent in PM. I was looking for a place that sells them but couldnt find anything. Of course it was 1am and I was ready to pass out lol. I'll look into them and keep them in mind. Ive read nothing but good about AFR heads and I was hoping that they would be around that price range. I'll plug them into DD2000 and see what comes up.
I have seen those vids before, and Im not looking to go that extreme with this project. Again its gonna be a drag car, but with an emphasis on street. Not a big block monster like that. Although that probably is the meanest civic around

Anyone else have any feedback? Again this is a SERIOUS project that I'm talking about. Not a joke or a prank of any form. Im looking for serious advice, and I know there are some really smart people here that can give me some really good tips. So if it makes it easier for everyone, pretend that Im doing this in a Camaro and not a civic

 

Sorry no advice, just wondering what you have planed for a drivetrain to make it all fit? Also can one of you guys shoot me that video you were talkin about?

 

www.THIRDGEN.org

 

Drivetrain will consist of a TH350 or 400(probably end up going with a built TH350)custom driveshaft obviously ,and I think for a rear end we're going to utilize a narrowed GM 12 bolt with whatever gears match the final motor. Not sure yet on what we're going to do for a rear section. I have some friends that will know more about that than I will. Could very well end up being a 4 link backhalf out of Jegs or something like that. And the front end will probably end up being totally custom built to suit our needs. I envision a full tube front front section being built, probably using a Mustang II rack and double wishbone suspension. Something that I still have yet to look into alot more. We just came up with this idea on Thursday, and I'm just excited to get a motor combination finalized lol.

And heres the links for the video. Right click save as
http://mirror.rivendel.nu/crxclub/mt...f240900/44.mpg
http://mirror.rivendel.nu/crxclub/mt...f240900/15.mpg

I know this is THIRDGEN.org, but I really cant think of anywhere else to get good technical advice for this matter. All I'm asking for is advice on a chevy small block, the same motor everyone else here uses, not a honduh b18 GSR 4 banger. As I said, we can drop the civic subject and pretend that Im putting this in my '91 RS if it makes that big of a deal. Or if someone here can send me to a better forum for answers, then please do so. But I really dont want to be hated on because I've decided to take on a project most others wouldnt even think of doing. Im a domestic guy building a domestic motor and putting it into an import for the sake of being different.

 

Actually the whole post is against the rules, technically. But only because you said "civic" lol. Thats why I said what I said(see quote).

Just from now on dont say what its for "if it soley an engine question" and no one will know the wiser. Your just gonna catch a little flack. Its a good "engine" question for the engine board, just not a 3rd gen one now...

 

Hey maroon91, you got that motor out of a 3rd gen didnt you(cough, cough) Thanks for the links there. The reason i had questioned you on the drivetrain is this, and maybe you have measured and taken everything into account, but i just dont see a vertically opposed v8 fitting in there with TH in normal config. I'm thinkin you might need to find a tranny off a northstar or whatever tranny/drive train it is that the fiero swap guys use to set the motor up horizontally. Just food for thought. I might be a litte off on my vertical/horizontal reference but i think you get what im saying.

Edit - for some reason when i was posting this i thought you were going rear engine, so nevermind if you were puttin it up front(wich will be just as much of a challenge of course).

 

Id get a nissan 280Z or '87ish mazda RX7 ..

you'll have to build a custom trans tunnel, brakets to
hook up a RWD set-up, cage, wheel tubs in back ..

 

I'll have to read into the rules again. Its been a while since I've read them. I'm sure a whole lot has changed since back when I used to frequent the boards more 2 years ago i hate being broke and not being able to mod my car

I only mentioned the Civic part because I thought people might be somewhat interested in it even though its not a thirdgen, and because I hoped that people would think "Ok this is a very light car, perhaps he should go for something with a bit less low end torque to really keep the tires from spinning" . But it was mainly as an attention grabber and to see what all of you thought about the idea.

Spectre, I'm aware it would be easier to do in a current RWD platform, but everyone is already doing those. And its alot different than doing it to a civic, one of the most hated forms of r1c3 in the domestic world. Plus I want to **** of the honduh guys too while I'm at it lol If I wanted to build a RWD V8 car I would probably stick to a Camaro or something. And this is not soley my idea. As I first mentioned this is all my friends doing, and its being supported by his cash flow, but I'm the one with more technical know how when it comes to big ol' american V8's.

Ok done with the drama now lets get onto the technical aspects of my question!

 

man that sounds really cool the only thing i would change is to take the engine and transmision out and throw away the car your gonna put it in and go get a nice camaro or firebird and have alot more fun and better looking car....

 

Ok people seem to be missing the point here. We're doing this to do something different than just about anything else out there. And because the Civic weighs so damn little, that any motor making more than 400hp is gonna turn that car into something nasty. Full weight should be 2,500 or less, and if we can get a motor to make 500hp, youre looking at a pretty sick 5lbs/hp as opposed to the 7 or from a 3500lb f body.
As I said before, this isnt my money thats funding this project, its my friends. Im just the tech guy behind most of it. He doesnt want to build an F body. If he did he would go out and buy an LS1 car and do something crazy with that. But we can get this civic shell for a measely 100 bucks and turn it into something pretty nasty for not alot of dough. So if you all just want to hate on the idea instead of helping a fellow f body guy out and making some useful posts, then fine. Ill go find another forum where Im sure I could get a bit more help from people instead of being told I need to do this in another car. OR we could just say pretend I am putting this in a Camaro, which would make it easier for you guys to get to the point and lend me some advice, which is all Im friggin looking for here.

 

Why don't you just the board for engine combos there are millions.

 

if u would of read this post u would see........ so it's not like he didn't search at all.

maroon, i wish i could help u out help but i don't know anything about building engines, i even searched a bit to see if maybe u skipped somethin, but all the stuff i found were "what headers should i use" "what 1/4 mile times should i get" or "what cam"....idunno....i just don't know y people are being d!cks about this. it's a shame that u mentioned the word civic...if u didn't no one would of ever gave it a second thought.

 

If this is an all out drag car, why limit yourself to 23° heads?

 

This ended for me when I read "500 bHP" NA and streetable in the same description.

No offense intended, but that's big money to stick into a 100 dollar car.

 

Thanks for the backup chio, atleast someone got what I first wrote.

Stekman, I'm not limiting myself to a certain head, I'm limiting myself to heads under $1500. If theres a set of 18* heads out there for under that amount that can give me the performance I'm looking for, then please let me know. I'm still hunting for parts and combinations, and probably will be doing so into the spring time. I'm just trying to get some ideas now so I can get a better idea of what this total project will cost. So far it appears a set of AFR's are my best bet, but if you can think of something better feel free to share!

Confuzed, I know 500bhp N/A might be a bit out there, but I set our goal high so we can try and get the most out of what we end up building. Better to set a lofty goal and do our best to get as close as we can, ya know? And what if it was a $100 camaro? Would it make a difference then? By the time the civic is ready to accept the motor and drivetrain, it should be up the the same amount of cash as a good Camaro/Firebird body would have cost to do the swap in, and we have the advantage because it will weigh substantially less than an F body, even after the chassis work is done.

 

And it would still be a civic instead of a camaro or firebird

 

if your not going to help just don't post.
no need to be an *** about it.

 

nice of you to chime in with your words of wisdom there too...LOL...


if you want to realistically make an engine thats gonna be strong enough for what you are wanting check out building a 383 stroker......

 

If it was a 100 dollar Camaro? Don't matter a bit to me if you want to build a 50 dollar Yugo.

It's just when you set a lofty goal like that, it doesn't seem "realistic" to people on the board, and most guys generally don't bother responding to it.

I have no problem at all with someone dropping a 350 into a Civic. The power-to-weight ratio should be awesome.

IMO, if you want to keep it streetable at all, and acheive those kind of HP levels NA, you may want to consider bumping up the cubes.

With 454 cubes under the hood, 500 HP NA isn't that far off. But with a 350, you'll need to get a bit more radical with your buildup, to the point that street manners will be a thing of the past. If you don't want to go BB, how about a LS1??

Heck, LS1 Camaros and Birds are running high 12's and 13's with minor mods. I'd think a LS1 Civic could pull some awesome times - if you can keep the power to the ground. Just a thought.

 

I'm not ruling out a stroker motor such as a 383, and it might even be a possibility. It basically ends up how much money we have to work with here. Hell I'd love to do a 400 if I can find the block, but again it adds to the final pricetag of it all. My friend whos money is going into this is seriously looking into getting some sort of sponsorship to maybe help with the cost of the build. I dont know how well that will go or if anyone will show interest, but if we can land a few sponsors then I'll do as much as I can do to get the most power possible. A big block is out of the question. Its going to be hard enough to shoe horn a small block in there let alone a big block. I originally suggested an LS1 for the project, but he wanted to keep things simple and run a carb'ed small block to avoid the wiring nightmare. I was cool with that because I can tune a carb alot easier than I can an FI system, and LS1's require a dyno tune to get the most out of them, which would be another couple hundred bucks. And I already want to do an LS1 RWD DSM just to **** those guys off haha.

So back to my original question at hand, and lets just assume that I'm putting this in a Camaro. What do I need to do to squeeze 450-500bhp out of an N/A 355?? Remember, Vortec heads are not an option, and the heads must be under $1500. Porting them is an option if needed. Streetability isnt a huge issue, as long as it's reliable and doesnt overheat.

 

Not trying to be an ***, but if I wanted to read about people modding civics I would go to a import board. This happens to be a board for thirdgen camaro and firebird enthusiasts. Not imports

 

AFR heads, solid roller cam, Victor Jr intake.

Its gonna cost a lot to build 500hp more then what it sounds like your friend has to spend. Tell us how much he has to spend on the motor, and we will tell you how much power he can make.

 

it works out like this
going fast cost money
how much money does he want to spend
$$$$$=fast
not to mention has he thought of the reinforcements he has to do to the body to make it hold that much hp or the rearend or suspension?
your talking some serious cash here..