Okay, this is a useless question, but some of you techies will know how to answer it. I want to know why my buddies (and all the rest for that matter) 5.0 mustang sounds so good with a flowmaster system. I've got a flowmaster system too, and I don't have that great sound that the five-oh stangs have. The 305 is nearly the same displacement as the 302. But even at the same RPM's they sound so different. I was just wondering why it is.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Not entirely sure but I think it has something to do with firing order.

Matt

 

It's the firing order and the dual cats on the 5.0 that give it that mean snarl. My 305TPI sounds worse than a dump truck with a blowmaster

------------------
'88 IROC 305 TPI
Crappy 700R4 slushbox
Gutted airboxes
180 degree T-stat
Advanced base TPS voltage
Relocated IAT sensor
Momo steering wheel (gotta luv it)
Ram-air setup coming soon
Flowmaster muffler (puke)
Taylor SpiroPro wires
Accel cap and rotor
Ported plenum
Kills: '94 Z28, Olds Aurora V8, bunch of Mustangs, T-birds, ricers, and others who assumed a 12 year-old car would be too slow.

 

Firing order and duals give the sound. Also the small cammed 305s tend to sound kind of *** , the 305 TPIs with the better cam sound just like a 350 TPI, with the tone about one octave higher.

------------------
91 Trans Am WS6
Bright White
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter

Built on Wednesday

 

Firing order.. Even my 350 sounds like hell with a flowmaster
p.s. the only REAL chevy 5.0 is the 302 even tho its really 4.9!
------------------
1980 Camaro, '88 Police 350 engine, Headers, full exhaust, completely redone, my baby!
1988 Iroc-Z L98, MSD 6a, Accel coil, K+N's, Airfoil, Coolant Bypass, Flowmaster, Gears, Late model Bose, I like the 80 better

[This message has been edited by Steve R (edited April 25, 2001).]

 

Displacement has nothing to do with it. The Ford 5.0 is a 4" bore (like a 350) but a 3" stroke (305 and 350 is 3.48"). The Ford 5.0 is set up for power while the Chevy 5.0 sucks.

The exhaust sounds better because its a dual exhaust.

------------------
West Coast GM Shootout 2001!
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

different engines sound different well.. as im sure you guessed it, because their different. i agree, i do think mustangs sound meaner, although most of the ones here at my college are just stock with some new pipes under them. sound isnt everything. i had an 83 camaro(stock 305), had a nice, deep powerful sound, but was not modded one bit.

------------------

• 83 Z28--ttops, 200k miles--very ragged out. sold, thank goodness
• 74 Z28--slightly modded 383, TH400 tranny, not too quick but fun to drive

 

Our cars make their power with 350 engines and not 305's, (this is a better idea IMO!!) probably because some OTHER car company likes to use 5.0's as their top engine, so we get the better 5.7's as our top engine!! I like it that way though!!

IMO their isn't any 5.0 M*****g that matches the sound of an SBC 350(sometimes even an SBC 305)with the right exhaust setup, whether it be single exhaust or dual, because I've heard 1's that make M*****g's sound like ****.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

Also, remember that the fox bodied 5.0s came with headers from the factory, not to mention they were feeding into a true dual exhaust.

The Chevy 305s also were given crappy cams, low flowing heads, and if you were lucky enough to get TBI, you got another bottleneck right there. Not to mention the TBI cars got 2.25" cats instead of 3" cats.

I have heard Chevy motors at the race track, some of them Thirdgens, and they sound badass. These can be 305s, but most are 350s, almost all have headers, a 3" cat, and a 3" cat-back, usually Flowmaster or Borla. The cam must be upgraded, along with high flowing heads and intake, and you'll get a great sound.

Granted it won't sound like a Mustang, but it will be equally impressive.

Jason

 

Kevin's right, the 4" bore is the trick

 

The true duals and hotter setup are the main reason, not to mention that the SBC 305 is a compromised smog trot line anchor.


------------------
'86 G-body Cutlass
Olds 307/TH350
Soon to be 377/700R4
To Beer or, not to Beer...

 

I could be wrong, but since when did Mustang's come stock w/ headers.

------------------
'86 IROC
T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK TES HEADERS
FLOWMASTER
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
UNDERDRIVE PULLEY
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
2:73 GEARS

 

I think my car sounds great with flowmaster, but my friend has a heavily modded mustang and it sounds soooooo mean, i dont know what it is, probaly the dual exhaust.

------------------
Steve
88 Firebird TBI,TH700R4 - Open Element, Cat Delete, K&N filter 14*4 element, Flowmaster Catback Exhaust, 180 Stant thermostat, Accel cap and rotor
1/4: 16.1@85.7 (Bone Stock)

 

Im not sure what year they started it, but I know the 88's and up came with factory hedders. They were pretty good quality too, my friends five-oh stang has the hedders and they have no rust at all after 12 years. I wish GM had given us hedders, oh well, I still wouldnt drive a Ford.



------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

I'm sorry but I must not have enough of the terminology down, what does this mean?




------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

oops

[This message has been edited by Big John's 86 (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

Sorry, new at posting.

IMO, the Chevy 305 is suitable only for 2 purposes: appeasing the smog gods of the "green" states such as Calif. and the like, or as a weight on the end of a trot line. For those more cosmopolitan readers, a trot line is a static line that has baited hooks attatched at 1-2 ft. intervals that are weighted at both ends. SBC 305s being trash for serious performance applications, a suitable use for these hefty pieces of iron would be anchoring trot lines in areas of swift water currents.

------------------
'86 G-body Cutlass
Olds 307/TH350
Soon to be 377/700R4
To Beer or, not to Beer...

 

my 305 tbi has been nothin but reliable for the past 150 000 miles. its easy to work on , starts up on the coldest day and hauls my *** from point a to point b with no trouble. i cant run with any vette but i got a reliable engine.

 

I know for a fact that my brothers 1986 5.0 Mustang came with them. His car sounds great under acceleration or cruising around 2000 RPM, otherwise it doesn't sound all that great to me. He also has Motorsport headers, Mac H-pipe, and Flowmaster cat-back. And it does sound mean when he stomps on it. . .

His 5.0 is also unstable above about 5000 RPM, I can take my L03 all the way to the rev limiter at 6000 (I don't do this too often because the power drops) and it's solid as a rock. His engine doesn't sound good at those kind of RPMs.

Jason

 

Although I dont like fNords i have to give the designers credit. The 302 ford is a kick butt engine drop a 351 cam in and it changes the firing order to that of a 351 basicly makeing it a destroked high reving engine, "factory HO setup". Now thats a neat trick! As far as sound, its the cam and headders. Its actually 86 and up for factory headders on the HO mustangs.

 

Part of the signature exhaust sound of the mustang 302 (4.9 litre) is to do with the facory fuel injection unit.

 

I think it has to do with the dual exhaust more than anything. 302s up till 1984 had the same firing order as SBC's and the mustangs ive seen 84 and prior that have been retrofitted with duals and whatnot sound similar enough to the later model ones that ive not noticed a difference.

 

The firing order does not really have much at all to do with it. Ever listen to an LT1 with a borla or BB exhaust? It sounds great and it has the same firing order as all other pre 98 small blocks. Ford spent a lot of time trying to get the mustang to sound the way it does. Both for the 5.0 and the 4.6. They use two different size mufflers to create the resonation.

 

I don't know what Third Gens u guys hear, but I know this guy with an 87 TA with 1 of the best sounding exhausts u will ever hear, when he goes to car shows he gets requests by every1, including M*****g guys just to hear it.




[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

That is one thing I will say that the 305 has going for it, longevity. They do last for awhile, maybe because they are low perf. engines, they dont take as much abuse as 350's and Ford 302s. Just a thought.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Sorry, been corrected. But the firing order does change the exhaust note, and thats why the late 302 doesnt sound like a chevy.

And about 'headers'... those came in 85, but I have a real hard time calling them headers. If you take a close look at all the twists, bends, and dents, you will know why I dont call those things headers.

[This message has been edited by madmax (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

Tubular exhaust manifolds. That's what I call them! Definately not true headers, but they are better than the "logs" that came on GM cars!

I think Ford puts more time into the sound of the exhaust. The 4.6 cars (Which I think a dogs!) even sound pretty darn good. Rustangs do have a superior stock exhaust system. Pretty much all the things mentioned here contribute to the sound of the exhaust, but I think the firing order is of the least significance.

They may sound better, but I still don't want one!

------------------
Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads sitting on it look good!)

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

ASE Certified Master Tech

 

From a Ford tech - its the intake manifold and the exhaust setup. Firing order, bore, stroke, displacement - BLA!!!

If a 4.6 SOHC sounds the same as a 5.0 both in stock trim, how could it be the firing order or bore/stroke/displacement. I have heard numerous 3.8 Mustangs that sound just like the 4.6/5.0 at idle with a dual flowmaster setup (higher RPMs dont sound bad, but you can tell its a 6). They also have the same intake style. Yup, intake manifold style is just as important. TPI sounds different from the QJets, which sound different from the TBI, which sound different from the LTI, which sound different from the LS1 etc.

Also, there is a 69 Z28 running around Glen Burnie, MD with a Chevy 302 that you would swear sounds just like a 5.0 Mustang.

BTW - An Edelbrock Performer RPM packaged SBC screaming at 7000RPM with headers and flows sounds much better than any Ford I've ever heard.

------------------
1985 Z28, Jasper Class 1 350, Edelbrock Performer intake, Dual snorkel air cleaner, K&N, Edelbrock headers, Catco 3" cat, Hooker 3" cat-back, Richmond 3.73's, Transgo shift kit, JET Stage 2 chip, Hypertech coil, Lakewood LCA's, Powertrax locker, SSM subframes, Centerline Auto Drag's

[This message has been edited by Marc 85Z28 (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

I don't think they sound better, and the 4.6 doesn't sound that good. Go on their sites and download the exhaust sound files (I haven't heard a really good 1 yet), then download all of 89Irocn20's with a 350 TPI here (which sounds really nice) and some others. I haven't heard a M*****g thats sounds as good as a Third Gen with the right setup engine and exhaust, like the 1 I mentioned in my other post and some others here.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

Thats it right there, its all a matter of preference. I dont like the sound of the sbc, the LS1's sound better, the ford sounds really good to me, and even though I hate anything from the pentastar crowd, there is nothing as beautiful as the sound of a built Hemi. I even have a hard time putting down the wedge blocks... those damn things sound nice.

 

It would be cool if I could let u guys hear the Thirdgens the guys I know have, they make M*****g's really sound like s**t, and they all know it here too.

 

Muskrat did come with headers, but the were really crimped at the exhaust ports. Not really a performance setup.

Kevin hit the nail on the head. Bore and stroke make the difference!

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird 350/Six Speed
1987 Toyota Pickup 383/500+ HP

 

I agree that fords firing order makes them sound 'choppier' and bark more than a chevy.

But when I hear them pull out from a stop, the revs they must hit to pull to 20mph that sound quickly reminds me of 'v6' with a flowmaster.

The fords do sound better at idle imo, but wtf does idle have to do with anything like 1/4 times? My chevy truck with a hole in the muffler sound (SLP 3/4 with SLP all the way back/no cat) quickly turns vicious in tone and lays some whoops-*** down on the fords. It's kinda like a 'bammm' sound since it goes from idle to 6100rpm almost instantly while they stare into my taillights (1st gear/3.07 with 4.10 ratio and I could hook it on a nice warm road)

The fords sound like they have a more radical cam because of their firing order causing a 'skip' at idle which causes the 'droning' sound. It's all in the firing order although a 351w has a much better sound (and performance) imo (I'm not a ford lover, and not a hater either but I like the 3rd gen soo much I have to learn more about the fords. Ya know you could take a 302 ford, bore it .030" get a SVO 3.48 stroke crank and slap mopar 360 rods and off the shelf pistons to get a 355ci 377hp over 400lbs/ft torque out of it?

When will the ford/chevy stuff ever end? When they are both completly owned by foriegn companies?

Drive what you like/Fu(k everyone else. The grass is always greener........................................................

 

Anybody here know what the firing order is for a 5.0 Stang?

Jason

 

Depends on the year. The early one is the same as the chevy as pablo said (in essence anyway), but the later one is different. The early is 15426378, the later one is 13726548. Those 2 do sound different than one another, the only reason is the firing order. It has to do with how the exhaust from one cylinder interacts with the next.

 

Yeah, I always thought the hedders on the five-ohs looked sorta small. What did they make them out of? Like I said before, the ones on his are original, with 197,000 miles on them, and no rust. Whatever Ford used, it was pretty good.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Maybe if I put a big block in my GTA I could talk trash about everyone else. Some of us do not have the means to just drop in a different engine as we please.
The fact is some smaller displacement engines can put out a lot of power if equipped properly. Yes, the 305 was de-tunned for emisions, but It can be modified just as well.
Also some of us love our cars just the way they are, and it doesn't matter if someone else doesn't like it.

 

I was told that the reason the 5.0 Mustang sounds so good is that the exuast ports on the heads are real far apart. Also true dual exuast and better manifolds help too.

------------------
1992 Z28 W/5.7L. Teal with unpainted cowl hood,18" Billet Specialities Rims,Eibach Sportline Springs, Leather int., B&M Mega Shifter, Headman Headers, Flows,No Cats,K&N,HyperTech air foil,Custome Burned Chip,MSD Ignition,Shift Kit, Billet Corvett Servo my Back License plate reads "ALL UL C"

Here's a couple pics of my car

http://www.geocities.com/jonnyarson/maro.jpg

http://www.iroczdesigns.com/images/camgf.jpg

http://www.iroczdesigns.com/images/cam5.jpg

[This message has been edited by BigMike 92 Z28 (edited April 28, 2001).]

 

how are either of those firing orders the same as chevys?
the chevys is 18436572...

btw, a few weeks ago my friend raced a 4.6 GT with the sweetest exhaust I've ever heard
I don't know wtf he did to it, but it ruled!
I think the ford 302s sound badass as well.
But I've heard some nice LT1's and SBC's.

 

Ask Pablo, he'll tell you.
Ill just give you a hint. The blocks are numbered differently, and if you throw the firing order off by one cylinder, they are the same. Thats on the early ford btw. The later one is different.

[This message has been edited by madmax (edited April 28, 2001).]

 

I think that my exhaust setup sounds slightly mustang-ish at lower RPM's but much deeper. Part of it is definitely the Flowmaster, but I wonder if using "oversized" headers has anything to do with it.

 

They number the #1 cylinder on the opposite bank.


------------------
"Education is the art of making man ethical.

-George Hegel

 

Yea really..uhh..isn't the fastest TPI car a 305? Is the point of this whole thread to talk crap about 305's? I have beaten every 350 IROC I have raced..Stock, in my year, I had the faster car..You guys can be real ****** sometimes.

------------------

• Red '88 IROC 5 Speed 305 TPI w/3.08
• Dual Friction Stage III Centerforce Clutch
• Accel 300+ Racing Ignition
• Accel 300+ Pro Sleeve Plug Wires
• AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs
• Flowmaster Force II 3 Chamber Cat Back Exhaust
• Hypertech Chip
• Hypertech Airfoil
• Gutted Air Box
• Best Maryland (40 degrees) E/T 14.686, 60' 2.205, 1/8th mile 9.461, 1/4 mile MPH 93.91
• Best Florida (80 degrees) E/T 14.88, 60' 2.163, 1/8th mile 9.540, 1/4 mile MPH 92.74
• Best 60' 2.163(Florida)
• TPiS AFPR set to 42psi using Accel Fuel Pressure Gauge (Installed after Maryland run)
• Aluminum Driveshaft (Installed after Maryland run)

 

Oh yeah, the cars I've heard that sound better than M*****g's are 350's and higher ci. SBC's.

[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited April 29, 2001).]

 

Thanks Yarnboy.

 

Another thing people dont think about is the angle of the cut on the exhaust.
A flush end like this: (sorry for the bad representation)

|

works fine but an end cut like this:

\

Has more 'surface' area, and is louder and has a more robust sound.


------------------

 

Anybody know what gears the 5.0 Rustangs had in the back?

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

I like that quote Trigger


------------------

 

I really agree with that. The 305's can develop power with the proper work. Though it is true that they won't have as much as the 350's and the 400(s.b.). I've heard of people getting over 300 horses out of 305. I think that would be great, considering you would be one of the few people in the land with a fast 5.0 Chevy.



------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

I noticed that the 5.0 Stang also uses a "crossover pipe" or "balance pipe" in the exhaust system. It is used to balance the exhaust pressure due to the firing order of the engine. I believe this is what gives the 5.0 that deep smooth sound. Anyone ever try that on one of our cars?