Ward

iTrader: (1)

I heard about this trick from someone. they said that if you get like a spray bottle and mist water over the carb while the engine is running, that the water will get sucked into the intake and cylinders and sorta steam-clean it. Has anyone heard of this? Does it actually work??

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1983 Firebird
TH700R4 Auto
Small Block 400
LG4 ECM, Intake, Carb, Distributor, etc.
Soon to be non-computer.
Clarion Head Unit 45X4
2 Pioneer 400W 12" Subs
Third Gen Performance
"A four cylinder is half an engine."

SUPER-SPORT-CHEVY

Who ever told you this "they said that if you get like a spray bottle and mist water over
the carb while the engine is running, that the water will get sucked into the intake and cylinders and sorta steam-clean it. Has anyone heard of this?" they should be executed
It would not clean the engine it would leave water and dirt deposites in the engine. If you want to clean your combustion chambers use a few bottles of good fuel injector/carb cleaner with your fuel.

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

WTF???

I'm not the smartest man in the world, but it sounds like someone's BSing you. You NEVER inject water into the intake tract, for any reason.

??? ???

3RDGENFRANK

I've seen this done many times. It doesn't physically hurt the engine. A mist of water is not enough to do any damage. If you have ever watched this done, every time you spray water in the intake, black (read carbon) smoke comes out of the tailpipe(s). This is where people think it is cleaning your engine. I have heard that it helps loosen carbon deposits.

Anyway, I don't know the benefits and/or dangers of doing this. I do not do it, but have seen it done many of times.

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1992 Camaro Z28; Engine:383 w/Ported Edelbrock RPM heads. Lunati Solid Roller Cam 224/232 .502/.502, Fluidampr, Comp Cams 1.5 Roller rockers and lifters, Comp Cams Triple Valvesprings, SVO 30 lb injectors. Holley/Walbro 255 lph in-tank pump, Haltech E6GM DFI, SLP 1 3/4" headers, 4" Mufflex, T56, SLP Clutch, Pro-5.0 Shifter, 4.10 Gear, Auburn Offroad Pro Posi. Super Ram. 17" X 9.5" Ronal FireHawk Rims w/ 275 40ZR17 Bridgestone RE 730's up front and Nitto Drag NT 555R's out back.

Double-Pump This! EFI Rules!

GTA88

I've heard of this often. Never heard anyone say it hurt his engine. Tried it on my daily driver. First time I did get some blue smoke out the pipe (carbon ?). Didn't hurt the engine at all, as far as I can tell.

burnoutrpm

it will clean the deposits off the valves and clean the tops of the pistons,.. no it wont hurt the engine at all. it goes down the intake tract and then burns in the chamber and head and literally scorces(but doesnt mare or hurt) the depostis of carbon off the engine parts. ive done this a few times cant say how the fuel injection will like the water mist going into the sytem but on a carbed engine it wont even stumble.

try it you like it!

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89 firebird formula

360 11.0:1compression (350 .060 over)/fully balnced and blueprinted
comp cams xe262 cam
performer rpm intake/port matched to heads
#1407edlebrock 750
sportsman 2 heads 64cc 2.02/1.60 valves 200cc intake runner/cnc pocket ported
msd 6al/msd8.5 super condutor wires
h.e.i. proform 50,000 volt vac. advance ditributor
700r-4 with 3.08 first gear and 3.23 posi 7 5/8 rear end.
b trans shift kit(will kill shifts...suck dong!!)
shorty heddman hedders with custom 3" pipe y-pipe back(no damn cat!) with 40 series flowmaster!
griffin daul1" core rad.cutom fabrication to fit(but no cutting )

future mods: 406 roller REALLY REALLY REALLY RADICAL!!!!!

Apeiron

Ever heard of water injection for detonation suppression?

tpsierra

I prefer stomped on walnut shells myself.

raging86

i'm sure it's all a joke and no one here would take your post as actual tech help or try it on their engine, but just in case someone does i edited it for you. thanks for understanding, ede

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86 IROCZ
T-Tops
700R4
305 TPI
3.23 gears
shift kit, manual TC switch, manual fan switch, flowmaster exhaust with edelbrock TES headers& hollow cat, gutted MAF.

[This message has been edited by ede (edited April 23, 2001).]

Tom 400 CFI

Water does remove carbon from the top of the piston and from the combustion chamber. This "trick" was used in past years when a technician suspected pinging and run-on was caused by glowing carbon depsites in the combustion chamber. By spraying a mist into the engine while its running, it removes the carbon. Don't believe it? Look at the combustion chamber of an engine that has been run with a blown head gasket(blown to the coolant passage). Upon disassembly, the piston, valves, and combustion chamber will look brand spanking new.

I don't think modern EFI engines build enough carbon to require this proceedure, however.

[This message has been edited by Tom 400 CFI (edited April 23, 2001).]

Guest

Water is very effective at cleaning out carbon, and no it wont hurt anything. Just make sure you dont take a glass and pour it in there, a mist is what you want.
Yea, crushed walnut shells.... those work good too.


For those of you that think water mist is bad or doesnt work, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Seeing is believing. I run water injection under boost. Upon disassembling my engine at 109,000 miles, I could not believe how my pistons looked. They were steam cleaned!! Shiny as day one! Amazing what a little water will do.



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Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
Former Paxton (6-psig): 12.57 @ 111 mph.
Former Paxton (6-psig) & former 50-hp nitrous: 12.04 @ 114 mph.
Current ATI D1SC (Initially 10-psig): Projecting high 11's.
Future ATI D1SC (15-psig): Gotta catch them pesky 26-psig boosted TTA's!!

http://willie.camaro-firebird.org/

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

Matt87GTA

Misting water is definately a great way to clean the carbon deposits off of the pistons and valves. Ever seen a cylinder that has had coolant leaking into it from a bad head gasket???? It looks like it was just assembled new and never run. I am not sure about what chemical reaction is taking place when the water gets into the cylinder, but the water loosens up the carbon which is than burned up and/or sent out the exhaust.

A lot of companies such as Justice Brothers sell an "intake system" cleaner that is supposed to be dribbled into the engine through the throttle body to clean out carbon deposits. I think the JB product is mostly alcohol which has the same effect on a gas engine for removing carbon. I like the free water idea myself. I have used it before on high mileage engines that have chronic predetonation problems.

I also know a couple of TTA/GN guys that use water or alcohol injection in their engines so they can run higher boost without predetonation. Madmax is right, anybody that says you CAN'T put water into the intake of an engine under ANY circumstances, definately does not know what the are talking about. Water can be very useful for removing carbon deposits and for blown and turbocharged engines, but it has to be used properly.

Laterzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Matt

1987 GTA L98 MD8 GW6

"Stop Lights timed for 35Mph are also timed for 70Mph"

Bort62

Well, Considering the primary byprduct of Combusion Of gasoline Is H20...


As Willie, Mad and A Few others Said, Water Injection is a powerful way to stop pre ignition, and Also serves as a Method to Clean the chambers.

Those of you Who Say that it will Damage your Motor Simply Don't KNow what You are talking about, wich is too Often the case on this board The only Risk You would take is that Of Hydrolock, and It would take about a Garden Hose into the Carb on a running engine to get it Locked.




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60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver

Just another Hot Rod kid, or thats what they all tell me.
Livin' the Stereotype

GTA88

How much water do you need to go through before your cylinders are clean ? Just keep spraying until the blue smoke stops ? I have very high copmpression test numbers in my V8, around 170 to 185, so I suspect carbon buildup. But spraying water into the carb while running does not produce blue smoke. Is it cleaning anything ?

vortecfcar

blue smoke=bad
Black smoke=good

you should spray in and see black come out exhaust....when you see no more you can stop

Guest

As an example... here is what coolant leaking into a cylinder did. Water (without the green stuff) does the same thing.

D_Amlee

Yes, I have done this in the past. A few times. It does work, as illustrated by the knowlegeable posts preceeding this one. A mist of water injected into the air stream and sucked into the combustion chamber will, upon ignition of the air/fuel mixture, explosively turn into steam. This does indeed have the effect of quite literally steam cleaning the carbon deposits from the piston face as well as the faces of the valves. The heat of the combustion chamber will completely eliminate any danger of rust from the components exposed to the vapors.

The best technique is to manually open the butterflies while spraying the water into the carb opening (works with TPI systems also). If the volume of water is a little bit excessive it will cause the engine rpms to drop, but by controlling the butterflies with your fingers you can prevent the engine from dying. Just back off on the water spray for a few seconds and let the idle speed return. Keep the idle speed up to around 1000 or so.

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89 IROC with lots o' stuff

-=ICON Motorsports=-

Xenodrgn

Any idea how MPFI will respond to a mist of water in the air intake? Will it still work (or will the atomization of the fuel/air ruin this effect)?

(just for the sake of doing it, as an 'in-case' type thing. All engines are going to create -some- kind of carbon build-up I would think, especially if it wasn't baby'd)

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1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto. Stock.

[This message has been edited by Xenodrgn (edited April 23, 2001).]

D_Amlee

It will work with all engines. The air/fuel atomization which occurs in MPFI engines still takes place in carbed engines as well, just at a different spot in the intake.

I would not spray the mist through a MAF sensor, though. Take off any MAF sensor while performing this as the fine wire in the MAF may not appreciate direct impingement of moisture. The engine will still run ok without the MAF sensing the intake air.

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89 IROC with lots o' stuff

-=ICON Motorsports=-

82 T-TOP

Yes, water injection does work. A engineer friend many years ago fitted a H2O injector onto his carby as an experiment. After many mod's came up with the ideal Air/Fuel/H2O combination. The result! More H.P. less Fuel. All of his theory was based on what he had heard about during the war, when some planes used the same priciple. Why, I'm not sure. So if planes can inject water, why not cars. The amount is the critical thing. Like putting Brake fluid in the fuel to increase compression. A little will work. To much and bye bye heads.

88SC

Back in the late 1970s/early 1980s water injection kits were popular. It was a relatively cheap way to enjoy an old-school high compression engine without worrying about bad, low-octane gas killing it. I suppose EFI has superceded the need.

Geek minutiae: Water-methanol injection saved a lot of U.S. fighter pilot lives back in WWII. It meant being able to crank in enough extra supercharger boost (War Emergency HP) to turn around and get behind that pesky Messerschmidt pilot who was trying to kill you.

At the Reno Air Races, they've tried all sorts of concoctions, like liquid manganese, to shoot into the intakes of Rolls Merlins and Wasp Majors to allow them make way more power than they were ever intended...



[This message has been edited by 88SC (edited April 24, 2001).]

fb305svs

believe it or not, water injection on the air planes was comparable to using nitrous.

as for the fuel injected guys, spray it into the throttle body, not into the intake tube... the maf sensor prob wouldnt like that too much

Steve

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86 Firebird, LG4, t-tops, 2.73 open rear, SLP 3 inch cat back exhaust, catco cat, 1 inch carb spacer, Fiberglass cowl induction hood, Formula wheels, vette servo.

Current Plans: Waiting on: rear end parts- upgrading to 373's, 28 spline axels, slp zexel torsion posi, and a disk brake setup. Also have lowering springs, front struts, and hopefully a new mild 350.


My Webpage- Battle of the birds, My own Thirdgen Page, still under construction, http://www.geocities.com/soares711/index.htm

88 Firebird Formula- deseased 2/9/99- 305 TPI, SLP 3 inch exhaust, SLP Intake runners, SLP cam, 3.45 BW disc brake posi, WS6, NOS, and all that good stuff, 13.8 on the motor, 12.89 on NOS and slicks! Hit by what else!?!? a FORD EXPLORER!!!!!!

raging86

thanks for deleting my post for me ede. anyone dumb enough to think i was serious when i said to add a fistfull of sand with every oil chance should not even have a car.

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86 IROCZ
T-Tops
700R4
305 TPI
3.23 gears
shift kit, manual TC switch, manual fan switch, flowmaster exhaust with edelbrock TES headers& hollow cat, gutted MAF.

theformula

lol there are actually people here that would do it too!

4SPEED

see my reply on another page

jaretz28

I knew about the misting water trick, but crushed walnut shells? Not in my engine. Don't care if John Force himself said it was O.K.

raging86

hey jaretz28. john force is stupid he doesn't know what he is talking about. nutshells work great for scrubbing carbon deposits out of combustion chambers. another famous john, john lingenfelter suggests dumping a teaspoon full of betty crocker cake mix into every tankfull of gas. it is supposed to raise your octane rating. rank these mods right up with the floor mat removal, and filling your tires with hydrogen instead of air to lighten the unsprung weight of the car.

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86 IROCZ
T-Tops
700R4
305 TPI
3.23 gears
shift kit, manual TC switch, manual fan switch, flowmaster exhaust with edelbrock TES headers& hollow cat, gutted MAF.

SUPER-SPORT-CHEVY

Well gee i guess since im at 1/4 of a tank of gas i should JUST FILL THE REST UP WITH WATER! I know that there are water retard system that reduce rpms when the guy behind the wheel of a super charged car is running full blast, but its a safty precaution not a power improver.
As far as the crap that comes out of the engine when you mist it, it is the water that you sprayed in mixed with the carbon that is in your exhuast pipes.
Ever heard of gas dry? It removes water from gas! Why use this product if the water in gas will not hurt your car? It will mix with the gas more efficintly and drop into your engine in a fine mist with the gas better than a spray bottle huh. But they sell this product to remove water because water was not ment to be mixed with fuel or burnt with gas.
oh well!
SSC

Guest

You are comparing 2 different things.
Nobody ever said water made it run better when its constantly going in the engine, like if you have a tank full of water. You use it to clean it, like when its sitting in a driveway and you arent driving it. Thats what the guy originally asked, and it does work, and doesnt hurt a damn thing. By the time you drive it away, the water you misted in is all gone, unlike when theres water in the tank.


BTW, water doesnt burn with the gas, because... it doesnt burn at all.

86TpiTransAm

For those of you who think this is a joke, call NextGen Parts and talk to "Merlin" (1-800-921-9214) he'll tell you that this is no sh*t! People spray a MIST of water in all the time to clean their pistons!

Hell, for that matter, call EDELBROCK! They make/made water injection kits and have sold them for years!!

Red Devil

I guess you just can't assume that people stop and think about these things...

The dry-gas thing...
You use dry-gas in the winter so the water that condenses in your tank and fuel line don't freeze and clog your line (some bad) and to limit the amount of total water in your tank at once so as to avoid corrosion.

The mist thing...
Well, misting it is just fine (but too damned easy), but back in the day we just filled a cup of water, revved the engine and dribbled the water into the carb.

Why it works...
Along the way from the cup to the combustion chamber, the water is joined by its buddies, fuel and air. Upon reaching the combustion chamber, the fuel and air perform an erogenous feat called combustion. This excites the water to the point of instantaneous vaporization. When this happens (as I assumed all knew) the volume of the water expands. Since it's instantaneous it shatters the carbon deposits and all the participants then try their damnedest to pop out your exhaust.

Does it hurt?
Undoubtedly for the carbon, your motor loves it, just don't dump a whole cup in at once.

Oh, and SSC, you may want to take a peek as to why boosted cars run the water injection, it's not reduce RPMs man.

Edit:spelling
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"Education is the art of making man ethical.

-George Hegel

[This message has been edited by Red Devil (edited April 28, 2001).]

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

double post (sorry)



[This message has been edited by dhirocz (edited April 28, 2001).]

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

Well pooh, I guess I'm the odd man out, huh?

During my 'training', I have been told NOT to spray anything into the intake of an engine except maybe starting fluid. I guess I take GM stuff a little too liberally. Now that I think of it, every head I've pulled on a motor with a blown head gasket had had that involved cylinder clean. At least the ones involving leaking coolant into the cylinder(s). Explains things when you say 'steam clean'. I suppose GM does not recommend it because they assume someone will pour water in it and they don't want to be responsible. Supposedly it accelerates wear or something like that(?). There are exceptions to many rules. Anyway, I'll store that in my brain locker for future use.

[This message has been edited by dhirocz (edited April 28, 2001).]

Slow83Z28Camaro

about the water injection kits, do u only run on water or water\gas?

how much should i mist? il have a spray bottle when il do this, should i spray 1 time? 2 times or what/.?

would clorox also do the job?

88305tpiT/A

iTrader: (2)

most water INJECTION is to increase the effective octane of the mixture so that you can run more timing or to limit detonation on extreemly high compression motors(ie blown, turbo, N2O ect).

most of the power adder stuff that we use today on auto engines came from the designs of wwII airplane engines. all the turbo and SC and water and nitrous stuff was an attempt to kill the (insert WWII participant country here) with FASTER planes.
we are simply the benificiaries of the attempt to build a beter warplane!

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88 WS6 T/A 305 TPI--
K&N,Air foil,hypertech chip, thermostat+fanswitch
free mods, dynomax catback, urethane motor+trans mounts,
SSM SFCs, Bilsteins
very trick homemade ramair, Accel 300+ ignition system.
Planning: hedman 1-5/8 longtubes, NOS 150 plate, world 305 heads, replace the "peanut"! and other susp. mods.
check it out at:
http://www.geocities.com/transam617

gwman

Yes! Spraying water will actually clean carbon deposits in the intake system. My smog tech is a personal friend of mine the best in the business if you ask me (built my 350 for my 91 RS) said that it will burn off some of the carbon in the intake system. Excessive carbon will increase NOX reading. And by the way as of Sep. 1 CA emmissons test standards will be lowered AGAIN! Even more failures to come. That my 2 cents

zz4mula

I think GM doesnt recommend it because they can't make any money off a spray bottle full of water. They wan't to sell their top engine cleaner, which by the way does work pretty good. And to reply to a previous query as to how to do this on a efi car, I have seen top engine cleaner and other products of the sort to remove carbon injected via the pcv hose or any other vacuum source. So I imagine the water trick can be done in the same manner.

Damon

I've used the water trick for years, and yes, it works, to some extent. It works BEST on parts that get HOT!- like the combustion chambers, pistons and the back of the valves. It does not-so-well cleaning out camparatively cold TPI intake plenums and runners. Gettintg the water to flash into steam seems to be the critical event that has to happen to make it do any good.

On even a mildly crudded up engine I'll spend a solid 10-15 minutes spreaying water down the carb. Just remember that if you have a 2-plane intake you have to get it down BOTH primary barrels of the carb or you will only be cleaning 1/2 the cylinders.



[This message has been edited by Damon (edited April 29, 2001).]

GTA88

Just an update on the water trick thing. I drove my daily beater V8 305 out to a parking lot during lunch break, and spent a good 15 minutes dripping, dribbling, and spraying mist into the carb. The car never even stumbled except once when I put a little too much in. No smoke appeared, ever, but I kept on dribbling it in until I finally went through about a cup ( 8 ounces!) of distilled H2O. The good news is that I have finally gotten rid of that damn one-cylinder spark knock! Yess!!! At least it has been knock-free for the last 2 weeks, anyway...

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88 GTA Charcoal Grey Bone Stock except for loose muffler which makes it a bit louder than normal.

CamarosRUS

Thats how SeaFoam cleans the motor...water. I wanted to do this to my Jetta but I'm afriad the carbon might clog up the cats.

Would the carbon possibly clog the cats on cars?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

You have a real knack for digging up super old posts eh?

Yes, the cat gets clogged over a period of time from normal use, using water will scrub the carbon out of the motor, very rapidly, and pile a bunch of crud out the exhaust quickly.
Not sure if it'd be enough to clog a cat, but if it's partially clogged, might make it worse... The cat isn't super hot, so it wouldn't get the same cleaning effect as the motor got.

oh, and who the heck cares about a jetta anyway?

Burntz

Is this really a no **** actually works mod? Because If so, i'm going to go out and do it right now... lol. I pretty much assumed water + engine = bad.

BUT i heard somewhere that somewhere in Arizona, some guy had figured out how to convert an engine from using gas, to water, seeing as water = hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen = burrrn, and apparently the conversion added power, increased mileage, and put out abosoletly no pollution

When he tried to patent it, the govt. took it, lol

Toehead

The only problem with that idea is that seperating the hydrogen out of the water uses at best the same amount of power you get out of burning the hydrogen, and way more energy once you factor in the inefficiencies. It just simply won't work.

DLV555

iTrader: (1)

It's not a mod, it's a cleaning tip. Nothing changes from it's original configuration in the process. And that guy is probably friends with the guy that designed the 100 MPG carburetor whose idea and patent were bought by the oil companies so as to not be distributed.

Paul Potter

I was talking to an elderly chap who told me everyone used to fit a water spray nosle to the top of the carb. He said petrol was in short demand and this increased mpg of his car. Makes you wonder why it's still not in use now eh.

mmadden55

Methanol injection was used on the BF 109 G and K series Messerchmidt fighter planes to boost power at altitude.

Pro

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

WOW!!

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Since this old thread came back to life, I will add that it was a 200 mpg carb and worked by boiling the gasoline and burning the very much expanded vapor. What is the purpose of a carb or fuel injection? Answer - to atomize the fuel. The better the atomization, the more efficient the burn will be = more MPG. Vaporization is the ultimate atomization.
So that story is true. It is the reason lead was added to the gasoline as far back as the 1930s when gas only cost $0.10/gal. TE Lead clogged up the system so it couldn't work. When lead was finally removed in 1995, that system could work again, so that is when MTBE got added, same reason - to clog the system. It was NEVER about clean air!
Decades ago, high octane and "white gas" was available at the gas pumps. From Wikipedia:
White gas is a common name for a number of flammable substances:

1. As a generic term for camp stove and lantern fuel, its most popular current usage
2. Pure gasoline (without additives), commonly used when leaded gasoline was the norm to prevent fouling in situations where the properties of the lead additive were not required.

Coleman camping stove fuel IS white gas. You still could use it to make the 200 MPG carb work even today. Unfortunately it is no longer 10 cents per gallon.