I have an 89 GTA 5.7/700R4.

My mom was driving it today. She stopped at a light, the car started bogging. Light changed, car eventually started moving, but then stalled... would NOT restart. I went over after school. Checked for fuel, it is coming out of the fuel pressure conection (Schrader Valve) on the fuel rails. Checked for spark, it was weak, changed coil. It was stronger. So, I am getting fuel, and I am getting spark. Yet the engine still won't start. I just flatbedded the car home. It DID start with starter fluid. I don't get it. The ignition module is fairly new, fuel filter was just changed the other day, brand new. All fuses are good, even the injector fuses. Car was running fine earlier in the day, and yesterday. Help! I have three days to get this car back in running order, so I need all of your help. This site always was the best, helped wherever I could, so let's see if we can do it.

TIA,
Tris

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"We are being good - no drunk drinking..."-Red

"Your village called. They're missing an idiot." - Bumper Sticker at Pep Boys

 

Just a guess but I just went through a similar thing with my daughter's 93 Grand Am. Her catalytic converter was completely blocked. It also was hard to start and when it did it ran terrible. Made enough back pressure to blow out the head gasket. My not be the answer but just maybe.

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'92 firebird t-tops
305tbi,670cfm tbi, 2 1/2" Dynomax catback, 9x3 K&N open element

 

Are the injectors firing?

 

Well, I don't see how a clogged cat would make the car start w/ starter fluid, and not by itself. I will look into it though... thanks.

 

I don't know if the injecotrs are firing... how would I check??? And what would cause them to stop. I had thought of this, but had no clue where to start looking.

Tris

 

First don't assume you have gas. If you started the car with B-12Carb cleaner(or whatever), then it is a fuel problem. Need to check the fuel PSI.Turn the key on(KOEO) should be above 40psi. try to start the car, and make it run the gauge should never drop below 35psi with it running(KOER). If the preasure is good, then for some reason your injectors are not firing. Plug a noid light into the injector plug in and see if it is firing.Do you here(or feel) the injectors clicking? If they are not firing, then it is probably your Module or ECM. Don't over look a stupid fuse(ecm or injector), check all of them.
Let me know

 

I forgot, if you don't have fuel PSi, then use the TEST WIRE for the fuel pump and send 12volts to it. If it doesn't come on still then it is a fuel pump(I feel sorry for you), if it does come on and run well with the right PSi then check the Fuel pump relay. It also has a back up relay(oil preasure switch).

 

Yeah, fuel pump, or injectors. Take an ohm meter to each injector coil. Should be 12.6 ohms (If I remmeber correctly) or at least all of them should be really close to each other. It is rare for all of them to go bad at once (although I had 5 out of 6 bad on a Cavalier 3.1 that I was working on a week ago!)

The relay is likely not the problem, because it would rpobably keep running after the starting fluid ran it long enough to build oil pressure (But I won't say it will, hust should!)

I would start with testing the fuel pressure, then the injector Ohms, then see if the noid light works.

Good luck.

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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads look good, (just sitting there doing nothing!LOL))

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

ASE Certified Master Tech

 

My WAG - your MAF decided to take a poop. Will it fire up with the MAF unplugged?

 

Nope.... isn't the MAF unplugged it... and it just kept cranking...no start. But, I think this time I smelled fuel... WTF? Damn car... its toying with me, I know it. Keep the ideas coming please!

Thanks
Tris

 

Unplug an injector connector with the key on, check for voltage from both sides of the connector to ground. Should be 12 volts, if no voltage, look at the fuse panel, check the fuses for INJ1 and INJ2.

Now with you meter plugged into the connector (on lead in each connection) have someone crank the car over, if you have a DVM it's going to be kinda tough to tell, but you should see the meter (maybe you have an analog bar at the bottom of the LED readout?) go from 12+ volts towards zero volts. If you see the voltage swing, then the injectors are firing.

But since you say you smell fuel, you must have it.

Have you pulled a plug wire and verified a nice blue spark from the wire to the engine block/head?

 

I agree with checking the fuel pressure first. You may have fuel but you may not have enough. Also, you fuel pump may be giving you the first signs of dying.

Often when a fuel pump goes, you will warning of either hard starting or missing/stuttering engine. If the fuel pump has never been replaced and you have in excess of 100,000 miles, a bad fuel pump is something to definitely check. On trick you can try is giving your gas tank a good wack if you are having problems starting. If it suddenly starts, time to change the fuel pump.

WARNING: Wacking the fuel tank may not always get your fuel pump working, and if it does, you are living on borrowed time as eventually it won't work.

 

Another thing, if you have fuel and spark, and the cat is not clogged/clogging, you may have an issue with the EGR valve as well...could be getting EGR when trying to crank.

 

Yeah, it might be the fuel pump, what you are describing sounds like what happended to me when my fuel pump shorted out. Its a PITA to fix.

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1987 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z
L98 TPI 350 (5.7L)
TH 700R-4 Transmission
Borg Warner 7.75" 9 Bolt Rear End with 2.77:1 Gears.

Current Mods: LT4 HOT Cam, Comp Cams 1.52:1 Roller Rocker Arms, Edelbrock TES 1 5/8" Headers, Hooker 3" Aerochamber Cat-Back System, Performance Resource Chip, Accel Ignition, K&N Filters, JET TPI Air Foil, All Free Mods, Falken ZIEX Z-Rated Tires.

Best ET (w/o LT4 cam): 14.32 @ 97.7mph
(corrected for elevation)

Soon to Come: 7.625" 10 Bolt with 3.42s and Accel TPI Intake Base

 

Guys, the car started fine with the starter fluid. The spark WAS weak, but we swapped coils. The spark is fine now, but it doesnt seem like we are getting fuel.... I dont know, maybe its not ENOUGH fuel. Looks like I have some investigating to do..

Thanks so far,
Tris

 

there's a real good bet it's the fuel pump. i had the same problem, twice.

 

This is kinda funny. My first post on this site was for the exact same problem. The general opinion was the fuel pump b/c it would not fire with the MAF unplugged. New pump did not help. I swapped out the MAF relays and had the problem solved. I then got paranoid and swapped out the fuel pump relay for ****s and giggles.

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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

After reading all that I'll agree and lean toward the pump and injectors. The reason I suggested the converter is the symtoms were exactly the same. the car would start and run on starting fluid or if we jumped the injectors. The car was making enough back pressure it was blowing fuel out the intake.

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'92 firebird t-tops
305tbi,670cfm tbi, 2 1/2" Dynomax catback, 9x3 K&N open element

 

Alright guys i'm gonna shed some more light on this subject...the problem is with my car..tris just said it was his to make things easier..i'm getting fuel...and plenty of spark...the car has 82K miles on it...

The fuel filter is new...the injects ARE pulsing...i can feel them clicking when i put my fingers on them while someone starts the car...AND i can smell fuel...my guess is that the pump is pumping but just at a REALLY low PSI...not enough to turn the engine...someone said stuff about the MAF...its about a year and a half old and the power and burn-off relay's are about 6 months old...i checked the ECM for codes...nothing...clean as a whistle(aside from a code 12 which is normal when jumping the little ports with a paperclip). So my guess is that is a dead/or severely dying pump...i'm gonna try to get a fuel pressure gauge to check pressure...what is the BARE MINIMUM PSI i can run to get the engine running? i was told it was around 30-35 on a TPI engine just to get it to turn over...i thank everyone for suggestions/ideas...general consensus is the fuel pump which i what we pretty much throught from the beginning....but with these cars ya never know

i'll let everyone know what the outcome is!

THANKS AGAIN!!!

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Originating member of the SJNEP Crew
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"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

 

Just a thought, but you did say you changed the fuel filter just the other day...correct? Since our cars run with such high fuel pressures our filters are directional. Did you make sure you put it on the right way? It is labled with and arrow for fuel flow or its says engine side and tank side on it. If it was installed the wrong way the filter media inside will blow out into the fuel injectors and clog them. Might wanna check that before you pull the pump cus its such a PITA.

 

LOL i knew someone was gonna respond with that question...yes it has been installed correctly

 

Thanks everyone for their suggestions/opinions...it was the fuel pump like first suspected..THANKS AGAIN!