hi, have a question for you, my 305 a couple cylinders are burning oil, when i had the heads changed before the cylinder walls looked fine, and barely a ridge, compression is fine, so it must be the oil rings, could i just put new oil rings on them without honing? also i wanna do it in the car but i dont remember if the pistons will drop out the bottom or not, i will rent a hoist to lift the motor, i just dont wanna take it completly out and disassemble the whole thing, what do you think before i attempt this?

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86 Camaro with 88 305 LB9 using 86 carb setup, edelbrock performer manifold, 305 S/R Torquer Heads, Hedman Headers, Crane Compucam 2032 edelbrock cat-back, gutted cat, slp underdrive pulley, mallory ignition, 305 h.o dual snorkel air cleaner, hypertech thermomaster chip,160 degree thermostat, 5-speed, 3.23 posi

95 Beretta Z26, 3100 V6, 4 Speed auto, stock

 

No, you really can't change rings without honing. The pattern of scoring that the hone leaves on the cylinder walls is necessary to break them in. Without that, they will never assume the exact shape of the cylinder walls.

The pistons also will not come out the bottom. If you go to the junkyard and look at a block, you'll see why; the cylinders are larger than the space in between the main webbing where the crank main journals go, so they'll only go a short way farther down than their normal stroke before they hit the webbing. They have to come out the top.

Are you certain the valve guide seals are OK? Most often, that's what causes oil burning, not the rings. I don't know exactly what World puts on those heads for seals; but I would sure at least try replacing those before digging into the bottom end of the motor. They're cheap and easy, and they go bad alot. I wouldn't assume that just because they're not very old that they're necessarily good. Most often the compression rings will wear out before the oil rings do, so if the compression is good (check it for leakdown, not just the usual compression test) then the oil rings are porbably OK.

But in any case if the rings are bad, and the walls are not worn in a taper and don't have a ridge at the top and there's no scratches in them that go from top to bottom, then you can hone them yourself and put in new rings. This does require complete disassembly though because you have to get rid of any traces of grit left over from honing, you don't want to leave a bunch of abrasive inside your engine.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

hi rb, thanx for your reply, i just looked at a block in my back yard and found out i could not take them out of the bottom, i'm not sure of the valve guide seals, the heads have less than 200 miles on them, this motor did the exact same thing with the stock heads, and did the same after i put the world products on, i will go see if i can find a leakdown tester today, also if it is the oil rings, what are your thoughts on the new gapless rings? i wanted to use chrome molly rings or some good kind, i've never touched a bottom end before, just the whole top end.

Thanx

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86 Camaro with 88 305 LB9 using 86 carb setup, edelbrock performer manifold, 305 S/R Torquer Heads, Hedman Headers, Crane Compucam 2032 edelbrock cat-back, gutted cat, slp underdrive pulley, mallory ignition, 305 h.o dual snorkel air cleaner, hypertech thermomaster chip,160 degree thermostat, 5-speed, 3.23 posi

95 Beretta Z26, 3100 V6, 4 Speed auto, stock

 

besides seals you might have worn guides. even a weak spark plug or wire will cause plugs to foul with oil. not a real fix but you may want to try running a hotter plug to stop the oil fouling problem.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

not really worried about the plug fouling, just feel embarassed having a huge cloud of blue smoke all the way down the street when i open it up, it burns just idling a little, and when you get on look out, it doesnt smoke on startup

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86 Camaro with 88 305 LB9 using 86 carb setup, edelbrock performer manifold, 305 S/R Torquer Heads, Hedman Headers, Crane Compucam 2032 edelbrock cat-back, gutted cat, slp underdrive pulley, mallory ignition, 305 h.o dual snorkel air cleaner, hypertech thermomaster chip,160 degree thermostat, 5-speed, 3.23 posi

95 Beretta Z26, 3100 V6, 4 Speed auto, stock

 

Another thing that will cause mystery oil burning is a bad intake manifold gasket; since the bottom of the runners touches the crankcase, a leak there will allow oil to be sucked in.

Have the same cylinders always been the oilers, or have they ever changed? Any gotten worse or better over time?

A quick fix you might want to try is to put some trans fluid in the oil. ATF is extremely high detergent, and will dissolve crud that oil leaves behind. If the rings are stuck, it might free them up. You could even get really radical and add a pint of brake fluid to it, in case there's rust involved, but that's kind of a last resort. When it gets to be low, add a quart of ATF; change the oil at its regular interval, and replace one quart of oil with ATF. Whenever it gets low, add ATF instead of oil about half the time. See if that helps.

Oil rings rarely wear out without the compression rings being used up too.

I really don't think it's wise to try to half-a$$ that part of a motor, since without it working right, none of the rest of it has any chance. All your money you spent on heads and whatever else is then wasted. If it turns out that the rings are in fact no good, it's best to at least tear everything down and clean it up, and replace the rings and bearings; if the original bores are OK, you can get away with using the old pistons, but I wouldn't re-use any of the wear parts like any of the rings.

The gapless rings really need a straight bore. They are definitely not for a hone job situation. They use a regular type of oil ring, only the top ring is "gapless".

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

You posed while I was writing...

Are you sure your carb isn't way rich? That will make a motor burn oil. Try a different one if you can get one easily. You can get anohter one just like what you've got off of a Caprice in the boneyard, rebuild it, see if it's any better.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

hey rb thats a good question about the carb, i had 3 on the car, but they were on my other motor, then i popped it on this one when i got this motor, i dont think its running rich, this carb was rebuilt and it came off an 84 which is missing a different vaccum hookup that my 86 carb had, but beyond that confusion, how would the carb make it burn oil? i know if i open it up it's been popping through the carb, and the exhaust pops a little. oh yeah the same 2 cylinders are burning all the time #5 is the worst and #4 does it not as bad, that's the only ones all the rest are burning normally, i pulled the intake once to make sure it wasnt the gasket

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86 Camaro with 88 305 LB9 using 86 carb setup, edelbrock performer manifold, 305 S/R Torquer Heads, Hedman Headers, Crane Compucam 2032 edelbrock cat-back, gutted cat, slp underdrive pulley, mallory ignition, 305 h.o dual snorkel air cleaner, hypertech thermomaster chip,160 degree thermostat, 5-speed, 3.23 posi

95 Beretta Z26, 3100 V6, 4 Speed auto, stock

[This message has been edited by 86Z (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

ok well i took it for a ride, burns oil still runs like total crap, it ran fine before, it was in the garage all winter, i'm getting codes

21 high voltage at throttle position sensor
24 circuit fault at vehicle speed sensor
44 oxygen sensor lean
45 oxygen sensor rich

damnit

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86 Camaro with 88 305 LB9 using 86 carb setup, edelbrock performer manifold, 305 S/R Torquer Heads, Hedman Headers, Crane Compucam 2032 edelbrock cat-back, gutted cat, slp underdrive pulley, mallory ignition, 305 h.o dual snorkel air cleaner, hypertech thermomaster chip,160 degree thermostat, 5-speed, 3.23 posi

95 Beretta Z26, 3100 V6, 4 Speed auto, stock