Ok guys, I can’t go into specifics as I’ll be violating the rules, cant post about projects that aren’t finished) but this is a question.

I have a 76 350 with 12k miles on its last rebuild.

I want to make this short block bulletproof so to speak. I want to build the short block and not have to worry about it for years to come as I add on all the bolt on parts (heads everything)

Right now I am told I’ll need-
Proper cleaning (hot tanking)
Cam Bearings (duh!)
Freeze plugs (duh!)
Line Hone (said something about getting over sized bearings and then cutting them to size to they are perfect)
Bore Hone (Duh!) reason I’m saying only a hone is because you can still see the cross hatchings from the original honing.


What else, magnafluxing would be nice but the motor ran 12.2 is a 77 camaro a few weeks before it was tore down, there are no cracks. The motor is solid. He just upgraded to a Twin Turbo 427 LT1, so he took this out and set it in his yard for 3 years.

So, on your advice, what should be done to the short block?




Please no adverse post, if you want to discuss the project it’s already been posted in other forums (gmvsford.com, thirdgen tech section).


SO please guys, I’m trying to keep this post as on topic as possible, so don’t post adverse posts, as I will request moderators filter them out.



Until next time,
Shane

 

if you already ask other places why ask again? do only what is needed to bring it within spec, that means you need to measure and inspect it first. you might want to use some block fill, but then you'd have to elaborate on what you're wanting to do with it. along with what you listed you might want to get the decks squared up and at very least have the decks resurfaced.

 

So Shane, have you told them that it was you that hacked the tgo site down yet? Or did you forget?

 

??? se donde?? rules?? What rules do you speak of???

Sounds like you have the list there of what needs to be done. Now if were talking bullet proof you better save some cash up for real connecting rods, main caps and ditch the cast crank which it most likely has in it now.

 

I had mine tanked, decked, align honed with using arp studs, bored 30 over and had the block massaged a little around the oil filter for better flow. I also had my cam "holes" aligned as well. Also had my new rods end caps cut for a true roundness since it was a hair off.

 

the rules they made just for me because they seem to favoritise people who make discussions worth while, not the pople who add knowledge, and the poeple who correect others who think the same way....

 

But you gptta know, shane... You're one of our most favoitised pople of all

 

yes, i wish, i personally think i bring life to the site and without me it would be completely different. But that just MHO...




Shane

 

This is very true!!!

 

anyways back to the topic.

The motor will be putting atleast 300RWHP, and i'll stop at nothing less.

It already has an edelbrock performer cam, that an "like a raped ape" as he said.

plus he has an extra HSR setup in his garage he'll sell me.

But, that cam will most likely be replaced, depending on condition.

The rods were strength tested last time chris(the orignal owner) rebuilt the motor. The crank was "twisted" and new TRW hypernueretic pistons were installed, good for around 9.6:1 with 64cc.

SO i guess i'll just have to call up Allen, the owner of the machine shop i'm going to and see what he says....




shane

 

so how did this motor run a 12.2 last week when it was in his yard 3 years ago.. makes no sesne

get rid of the edelbrock cam they do not make that great of cams. yeah just replace the cam unless you matched all the lifters to it. but i would still just geta new one

 

yeah the edelbrock wasn't too muhc of a, yeah this makes me want it mor,e item of the deal. It was just a plus i guess.

i said 1 week before he pulled it, it ran 12.2 at Gainesville IR. its had been sitting in his yard for 3 years until i picked it up.

 

What
a
tard.



Tell me... why are you tearing down a motor with only 12K miles? What exactly are your goals? What will this motor be put through?

You keep posting useless crap Mike, including your 'questions'.

 

Put it in, add oil and water and run it!

 

Ok it has 12k, but like I said I want a bullet proof bottom end for any performance upgrade to come in the future.

It will still run but there is some surface rust underneath the intake, and rusty colored water was on a cylinder, not too big of a deal IMO, but, everyone else says I should get the block fully cleaned, align honed, bearings hones, freeze plugs reinstalled, and ummm new cam bearings. This will allow for a pretty much rock solid bottom end.

I will be keeping the crank it comes with, and the rods, and pistons just a very proper rering, bearing job, and a few other minor, but important mods to the bottom end will allow me to reach my goal of 400 Crank HP.

The use of the motor, during normal street use, since my heavy foot is really heavy I will set a large rev limiter on the motor, to save fuel, but when I want to go fast, all I will do is flip a switch turn a ****, whatever, I haven’t figured that out yet. But, this is a street strip motor, gone Shane’s way.

300rwhp is what I will be happy with, nothing less.

Desktop Dyno, says with my setup, will create 340hp, but, that’s, I guess an ok amount, for starters at least. Soon it’ll be upgraded to an HSR, he has an extra one sitting in his garage, he bought his originally, and then found a guy selling them already fully ported and polished, he bought that one and the original he’s selling to me.

Then eventually I’ll be upgrading to Iron Eagle Heads. Most likely cause I do like iron heads for the simple fact that you can’t paint them. And that my entire motor, from bottom end to heads will be either corvette electric blue or Dodge Viper Metallic blue (since my main body color is already a Chrysler). But for now, I’ll be keeping the Edelbrock cam, for a short time, then moving to a Comp Cams, number 12-238-2(second Desktop Dyno Image.

But after the bottom end I’ll need to strengthen the Drive train/Chassis. Stronger 9-bolt, with 3.23, or 3.42, haven’t decided, Rebuilt Tranny(with 2200-2400RPM Stall), Rebuild rear end, and front end suspensions, new aftermarket bushings, I’ll be keeping stock spring cause I like my ride height, but, I will be install stiffer shocks later on to help with weight transfer.

This is turning into a monster of a post by me, hope I spelled everything right because I can’t edit my posts (thanks to the mods).

Here’s desktop Dyno....
Edelbrock Cam

Comp Cams 12-238-12(hence see the flatter torque Curve)



Until next time
Shane

 

I wish but i spent $200 on a 76 350, with a 700r4 thats fried connected to it, and two sets of heads. Plus a few other things, like discounts at certian places.

 

shane i don't think you get it... you want a bullet proff bottom end but you using stock crank and rods... dumb move. get a steel fordged crank rifle drill it and get it cross drilled. the get some good fordged steel CR and a main stud kit form arp so you mian caps can hold all the hp you want. is this block a 4 bolt main.. lets hope so.. get the total seal piston rings and some good bearings a better cam to start with cause it's to much work to take a cam in and out over and over agian.

i think you need to think things out like why should i use a stock crank when i want a bullet broof bottom end

 

all you've talked about doing is some very basic maintance/repair work, nothing that would give you a "bullet proof" bottom end

 

Ok bullet proof with stock internals (excluding pistons).

The crank has already propelled a 77 Camaro 12.2 in the 1/4 mile. That’s in the range I’m looking for. But that was also with old camel hump heads so... And with a simple HP calculator, that time and weight makes it near 350rwhp, so....

A little work and I can near that. The crank is from a 76, cranks were stronger back then stock, way stronger, and if I’m correct weren’t some even still forged factory, not saying mine is but weren’t they? Plus the rods will be fine for 400 crank hp. that’s not too much stress, plus my peak RPM is preferably in 4500-6000 RPM.

I'll worry about those parts later in the years to come. I just want to be able to build this motor up for a while, N/A and not have to worry too much about the bottom end. New heads, cam, everything hopefully wont be a problem one day is all I’m hoping. With my 305, I’m scared to put more power through it for the simple fact I might just break it after 135k miles.

This wont be all out performance but I want to be able to go when I want to go. But like I said I’ll need that rev limiter as my heavy foot likes to take advantage of power even though it’s not needed.



Shane

 

your a moron... complete grade F moron.. ***.. the crank is form 1976 rember what year that was.. the good gas milage year not the we need perfomace year.. rev it up to 6k a couple time i bet it goes like spegettie cause it's just not gonna hold up.. anything that old should ethier be replaced or checked over really good.. and the shot blasted to harden the out side. get everything magnifluxed..

 

you think what you want, while i think what i want.

 

Remember nothing is bulletproof. The best billet crank will fail if starved for oil. The best forged piston will melt when run lean. That is why I said to put it in, put oil and water in it, and run it.

 

wlel excuse the word bullet proof then, i want a solid short block, that will last me my time, and need. There until i want to upgrade to a 383 or 400. But until that time, this short block will serve its purpose.

and if you do your reading those 76 crankshafts were as stong if not stronger then todays stock cranks. So you can take your wimpy cank and shove it..... this site isn't a place to sit here and call people names, its here for technical discussion.

This is the motor that stock came with 300HP with the old camel hump heads(which he took off and swapped for lower compression to use regular unleaded gas). The motor was built strong, and yes 2 bolt main caps, but i dont see what the difference is, if the main caps are 4 bolt, your rods are still only two wont make much of a difference now will it?

 

If the motor ran 12.2 in a 3500 lb car, i would think it is already pretty stout. Engine builders know what works and what fails. I would drop it off at a shop with a blank check. Trust the pro's to do you right. They will sell you what ever you can afford. Better parts = better odds it will live a long life.

 

money really isn't an obsitcal here. I jsut want to get the motor running solid. The stock crank, as far as me and chris know, is perfectly sound, the rods, same, and pistons 12k miles old.

The stuff cant be in too bad of a situation, i mean, i didn't see anything wrong. but i'll be taking it apart this sunday, i didn't go today, becuase of supierbowl, and the place its being stored at right now is a freggin 45 minute drive across town. Dont ask. My mom's friend offered to store it until i could get a truck to bring her home. But, i'll be gettign her on sunday(my next day off) and we'll see everything then.

 

and have you seen the pictures of the motor man? It doesn't sound like it, but if not, check this link they are in the first post,

http://www.gmvsford.com/forums/showthread.php3?t=7177

 

you are a complete moron.

You want a bulletproof bottom end using stock parts? that totally contradicts itself.

Here's some advice. Drop that block at a machine shop, dump a pile of money on their desk, and tell them to build it for you. That's the only way that it isn't going to blow up.

 

d/p

 

know what, just leave you ideots. My gosh, if you dont like the plan then dont post. the stock internals can handle the power, wanan nwo why, cause they are the same damn internals that they used to block in from 70-76, what the **** d00d. They are same *** darn parts. So just shut up and leave or sit and listen. the parts are the same and if you thinka stock crank cant handle what i'm gonna put it through then you need to leave anyways. Stock cranks can handle 400 new oil journals and stuff will need be added but that it, and those are already there.

So, anything else you have to say, oh you sauid rods also? hmm well yes they wetre strength tested and what not 12k miles ago, but if they passed it then, then they will certainly pass mine. Pistons are TRW, so whats wrong with those?


Like i said, if your gonna come in here and call this project stupid, then leave already nobody asked for you to enter.

 

lmao!!

Throw it away. If that pulled what he said it did it wouldn't have been left out unless something was wrong. And in that last pic, the two center cylinders, does it not look like the head gasket had been compromised?

 

does it look like it was compromized bro?



i think not!!!!!!!

 

Well, I saw the pics. Drop it off at a machine shop and let them tell you what you need. They are the pro's. Then, after you know what is good and what is bad, you can decide what parts to throw at it.

 

did you see that part of the orginal post that said its connected to a blown 700r4. Maybethats why. What happened was the 77 camaro, he was workming on it,and it suddenly put itself in gear backed out his entire driveway, and into the road, a truck going 30MPH T boned the car as is drove itself.

Well the car kept running but didn't go anywehrre and a problem in the radiator, happened, collant for the motor was mixed with the tranny collant and the tranny stopped working in all gears except first. No reverse no nothing. He dissassembled it, and the heat welded the clutch pack together. So.... there was a massive tranny over heat, but the motor, never had one problem.

 

Mike, why post if you only want to have people agree with you. If I came across that motor I'd pass. Looking at the rear cylinder that has that ton of rust... I doubt you'd be able to get away with just a quick hone. You don't want to hear that though and will label me a 'hater' too won't you? You still did not answer the pertinent questions I posted. Stock parts are good for a stock build. You are probably going to beat the **** out of it.

 

well, then it'll fail eventually.

and that cyender, thats an early pic that was as soon we took the head off, quick use of my wet vac and some tranny fluid made it look just as shiny as any other cyender wall.

 

but no red devil your criticism is respected, but when epople say it'll turn into spaghetti when the same darn partas i just bought ran 12.2, why does it matter?

he said he normally came out to the motor and would turn it over a couple times, usually on weekends. ut it was rianing while i bought it and thats why there was water in it then....

 

Are you gonna rebuild the 700r4 and use it?

 

i may, the local ammco, said to bring the tranny assembled to him, he'll take it apart and find out whats wrong at no cost. He'll fix it if i want him to, but if i dont, he'll give it back to me ina box of parts and i'm free to take it home. Or i can donate it to him, and get a one time discount card for anytime i ever need other tranny work done.

 

I dont exactly agree with this at all. I have seen lots of SBC's that spin higher than 6k, with a stock crank. This is no abnormality, its common. Its not "bulletproof", but its still a good foundation for an engine.

 

Best advice given. Something most guys should do even if they believe their current engine is in fine shape.

But, it's also been my experience that you should just discuss what you want up front with the machine shop anyway. They just may have a "better deal" of a block sitting around.

1976 was one of the WORST YEARS for SBCs for HP. I don't even think the 1976 Vette made more than 175 HP. Not sure if any of the 1976 engines were 4 bolt (somehow I doubt it, maybe trucks). Definitely NOT FORGED CRANKS. If the L82 was made at that time, it would be the only block worth looking at.

What mid 70 - early 80 SBCs are notorious for; is worn out cams because GM was cheap. When the cam wore out, they tended to cause the lifters to "rock"in the lifter bore. Thus, when you swapped the cam (which many of us did), the new cam would promptly wear out because the lifters were now rocking in oblonged lifter bores.

The only way to fix it was to overbore the lifter bores and run larger lifters (typically AMC type).

Those blocks are "bad news" and I wouldn't touch one without having a competent machine shop do a full check up.

Lastly, when I blow my transmission, I tend to only toss the transmission. Not the transmission and engine. There is a good reason why that engine is in the bone yard, and it has nothing to do with the transmission.

As Floor Guy said, go talk to a machine shop. Get the casting number. Explain the engine and year. They may even have a better block just waiting for you that will cost less to rebuild.

 

Yup. Tim Siford (aka Traxion) would pull 6500+ rpm on his STOCK bottom-end L98. He ran deep in the 11s too as I recall.

What Tim did have, was have a GOOD harmonic balancer - Fluidampr.

 

well would you like to see the motor and tranny he's replacing that 350 with? you just might, while he no longer has the camaro, body,someone walked up to him one day after the body sat for 2 years and offered him a deal he couldn't pass up.

But he was builidng a 427 HSR injected L98 Twin Turbo. so, there might be just more to it then you think. The lt1 hes using as a core, is all fordgedm and everything, stuff has a mirror finish on it. heres a qucik pic of what he repalced that motor with, would you seriously turn it down?

 

sorry meant l98, not lt1

and yes he built that motor in the garage that was right next to where i took those pics. the kid is only 19 and he hand crafted those custom headers, and my motor was just an old dream.

 

who edited the darn post? post up now, and be a darn man about it and tlel me why. Its rediculous, and it is thirdgen related so if youneed those link for the pics to post back up, i'm gonan request you do your job and leave the moderating for me to iroc, this is rediculous.

 

There is ONLY one person who can edit a post on TGO and NOT display their identity...the Administrator.

I woudn't use an L98 core for a setup like that. He'll be looking for a new block real fast.

 

well if you woudla saw it it is amazing man. It is completely awe worthy. I wish he;d let me post the pics but....


everything inside trhe l98 is fordged.

 

Look, I'm going to blunt. As someone else said, you made a post asking for advice. I know number of the guys that made a reply to this post - most are 30-50 years old who have a wealth of knowledge.

Floor Guy (who I know from another friend) made an excellent recommendation - GET THE BLOCK CHECKED OUT! But, instead you get all defensive and start bringing up tangents.

There is a saying "If you ask for advice be prepared to accept the answer you receive. And don't be surprised if it's not what you want to hear".

So, what would you rather us say, sugar coat a lie? "Great decision. No worries, just clean a little of the rust off, slap on a fresh coat of paint, install the biggest cam you find, plug'er in and run like the wind".

Because that is the only other thing I have to say other than my original post. So do you want? The truth or the sugar-coated lie? I can go either way.

AND, to prove that a Moderator CANNOT edit a post without it identifying it. Here is an edit.

Ede, lock please?

 

Here's your pictures man...

 

second one

 

isn't that motor quite the beast tho man? holy cow, when he gets that finished, i'd hate to pull up next to wahtever he's putting it in, he says an S-10, but, it'd be a nicer upgrade for a thirdgen, mabe he'll donate it to me.