I have posted before numerous times about my car cranking but not starting after a header install. For a quick update, I've checked every possible problem (that I can think of) but the car still just cranks but doesn't start. When i try it, it sounds like the coil wire isn't connected or something similar. Today, I decided to change the oil while the car was up on jack stands. When I opened the drain on the pan, 10 quarts of very thin oil poured out. The L98 engine is designed to handle 4.9 quarts of oil. I had as much gas in my oil pan as I did oil. I have the drain open right now trying to evaporate any gas residue left in the pan. I plan on refilling it tomorrow. My question is, should I expect the car to start tomorrow? Would an oil pan that overfilled, or that much gas in the oil, cause a no start condition. I have heard someone else on this board before say that our computers require the engine be experiencing 20 psi of oil pressure before it will fire. With my oil so diluted with gas (it was as thin and viscous as pure gas), could this cause my no start condition?

Of course, this wouldn't explain why it didn't start the first time I tried it some 4 months ago, but maybe the gas in my tank was indeed bad like I suspected and I diluted the oil trying to start it so many times before I drained and refilled the tank with fresh gas. Or maybe I have a eaky injector(s). Does this scenario sound plausible? My main concern is whether the gas in my oil could cause my no start condition. Any opinions? The Chrysler show is in town and their are a bunch of vipers cruising town just asking to be raced, and my GTA's in the garage unable to have any fun!! HELP!!


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Dave M
88 GTA

[This message has been edited by Dave M (edited July 15, 2001).]

 

check your ignition module, mighta shorted it somehow

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Webmaster: www.IROC-Z.org

 

That much fuel...I'd be looking at an open injector or two, possibly ruptured diaphram in the fuel pressure regulator.

The gas in the oil is not the cuase of the nostart, IMO, but is the by-product of the no start.

 

You are getting way too much gas or not enough spark and cranking alot. The gas in the oil is the result. FYI, that much fuel in the cylinders isn't good on them--it will 'wash' them. Gasoline doesn't lubricate and will remove the oil film from the cylinders. With a non start condition, keep in simple: air, spark, and fuel.


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350 with stealth intake, holley carb, 470 lift cam. 700r4 with .5 boost valve, vette servo, tci lock-up kit, B&M megashifter. Richmond 3.73 gears, powertrax locker, timkin bearings, synthetic lube. Custom 3 inch single into 2 2.5 pipes. 1 1/2 drop springs, 1 5/16 solid front sway bar, 1 inch rear bar, custom subframe connectors, custom LCA relocation brackets. Kobel ground FX, current red metallic paint. Lots of other stuff...
82camaro

 

Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to fill the car with oil later today and try to start it once or twice to see if that was indeed the problem, but I won't overdo it.... don't want a repeat of that gas in my oil. If it doesn't start I'll be checking my fuel pressure (I'm assuming a ruptured diaphram would cause the fuel pressure to be way off) and maybe pull the injectors to see if they're leaky. My AFPR is an Accel piece, and is fairly new, so I would be surprised if it was ruptured.

As for keeping it simple on the no-start condition, air, fuel, and spark.... I've traced down every element of each of those ingredients, and everything seems to be working fine. The engine's getting air, the cylinders are getting spark, the timing is good, and it's obviously getting fuel. I don't know why it's not firing up.


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Dave M
88 GTA

 

If you can get to the vacuum line going to the AFPR, pull it and smell for gas, it may even be wet...and it should not smell of gas, or be wet.

But do this on a cold motor, don't take chances.

If it's dry and smell-free, then you may want to get a Fuel Pressure gauge, and see if you're bleeding pressure quickly...you'll then have to see if the problem is via the injectors, or fuel pump not holding the pressure.

IMO, in order to be running that rich to dump so much fuel into the engine, you'd have to be blowing black smoke on accelleration...just a little rich would maybe make the oil smell like fuel, but probably not ncrease the level so dramatically.

Not that I want to scare you, but that much fuel going into the crankcase can be a dangerous thing, and should be taken care of ASAP before you drive the vehicle.

One other possibility I was thinking about too...it's possible the charcoal cannister is full of fuel as well, and raw fuel is being purged into the TB.

 

Thanks for the tips and suggestions. I have a fuel pressure gauge, just have to retrieve it from a friend. I'll be checking those things soon. Thanks, it's good to get some new suggestions after all this time. It's been 7-8 months since I've driven this d@mn car!


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Dave M
88 GTA

 

how do you know it's getting spark at the cylinders?

did you remove a spark plug and ground it out on a your body to see? that is what i'd do, if you're getting spark you aren't getting gas into the cylinders..

you might want to take out #1 spark plug, replace it with a brand new one, try to start the car and see if it's getting mixture

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Webmaster: www.IROC-Z.org

 

It still could be the diaphragm in the pressure regulator. I don't know about Accel, but my Crane regulator did not come with a new one. I had to reuse the stock one. Not sure with yours, but it's worth a shot to look. Check your fuel pressure first though. It's much easier to do this before you go and rip off the regulator. If you have adequate pressure, don't worry about the regulator. Then it's probably an injector(s) or somewhere in the ignition. Just my 2 cents worth. Hope this helps. Good luck.

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1984 Camaro Sport Coupe - Rebuilt 355 S/D TPI L98, Crane 2032 CompuCam, Crane adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD Blaster coil, custom burned PROM, stock TPI intake, Accel 24# injectors, gutted air box with K&N filters
F41 Suspension Package, 700R4 Tranny, TCI Breakaway torque converter, 3.27 Posi Rear
Hooker Shorty Headers, Catco High-Flow 3" Cat, Flowmaster 3" American Thunder Cat-Back

Best 1/4 Mile Run:
14.137 @ 94.57 MPH

1992 1LE B4C Police Camaro RS - 305 TPI 5-Speed

 

Ever find the clicking? Look to your relays, especially the MAF relays. Unplug the MAF next time you try and start it. Ever pull codes to see if you get the '12'? I notice you have an '88 correct? Have you inspected the 9th injector? Have you gotten the fuel pressure yet? Changed the fuel filter lately?

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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

Colin: The cylinders are getting both spark and fuel, I've checked. And there's no way the timing could be off unless the computer itself is bad. SO that's why I'm stumped as to why it won't start.

8Mike9: I checked the vacuum line to the AFPR, it was dry... I could smell fuel but I don't know if it was coming from my hands or from the line, it wasn't very strong.

Red Devil: I haven't found the clicking yet, but I haven't heard it do it recently. It doesn't really sound like a relay, more like the crackle you get from a hot wire. I haven't checked the fuel pressure yet, should today or tomorrow. I guess there's not much I can do or you guys can tell me until I get those results. I have pulled the codes and do get code 12, nothing else. I haven't really checked the ninth injector, and I think I banged it up pretty good reinstalling the intake, so that's something to look at. Fuel filter only has a few thousand miles on it.


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Dave M
88 GTA

 

Dave,

You should not smell any fuel in the vacuum line going to the FPR, if you do, then that means fuel is being sucked into it, most likely from a failing diaphram in the regulator. It's the only way fuel can get into that particular line.

 

I'll check that again... this time with clean hands....thanks. If my daiphram is ruptured, will my fuel pressure be reading high or low?

Dave

 

Hmmn, double edge sword, one one hand you'd have less vacuum "pull" due to a leak, which would increase the pressure, but on the other hand, you could lose pressure through the leak.

I oughta be in politics, huh?

 

I did not have sexual relations..........

 

I checked the vacuum line again, it was dry but I could definately smell fuel. It wasn't very strong, but was definately there. I should be checking the fuel pressure tomorrow, I'll let you know what it reads. I previously had it set at 42-44 psi if I remember correctly.

Dave M

 

UPDATE: I checked the fuel pressure... the reading? 0 psi. That is not a typo. It didn't even register on the dial. Fuel comes out of the schrader valve, and the cylinders are obviously getting fuel (spark plugs come out wet in fuel, fuel in the crankcase, etc...) but the gauge reads no pressure, I tried it several times, and I think once it read 10 psi, but I could not replicate that. I even went out and bought another fuel pressure gauge, suspecting that mine was bad, but it too read 0. The fuel pump runs when you turn the ignition on, it sounds louder than it should, and the whirring seems to gurgle or cut out, not a constant power sound. Sound like a fuel pump going south or something else given my earlier information? Anyone?



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Dave M
88 GTA

 

My pump sounds different under different loads (pressures), so that is the least of your worries. It is not the cause of your engine wash by any means. The only way for fuel to get into the engine is by you cranking it constantly with no spark or leaking injectors and/or ruptured PR diaphragm, or perhaps a charcoal canister that lets it in while the car sits (but not 5 quarts worth . I would take them out of there ASAP. I am having the same problem now and ruined fresh mobil 1 with 60 miles on it. I only had one quart of gas in the oil, but the @#$% injectors are coming out NOW (after I did the full diagnostic test w/ pressure gauge, pinched hoses, etc.).

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1990 IROC 350
Mods: Too busy trying to make it run right to mod it.
Airfoil, Dynomax cat-back, Accel coil, 180 t-stat, Bald Eagle tires,
Hypertech fan switch, Accel 23# injectors, Holley AFPR, ported plenum,
Ruger P95DC, hot wife, new oil filter, thick rubber floormats, no cats.
18.0 @ 85MPH since I'm one big-a$$ MF
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."