ZZ42FAST AND MYSELF HAVE BEEN DEBATING IF 3RD GENS ARE SPORTS CARS OR JUST MUSCLE CARS. HERE IS HIS(HE'S FROM ENGLAND) OPINION, WHAT'S YOURS.
" 86, thought I would start a fresh thread. Our cars are not Sports Cars- sporty, maybe
but technically they are GT's. So they have a race series (or had) well so does the
Citroen 2CV and the VW Beetle! They Sports Cars too? To me a Sports car has to have 2 seats for a start... The Corvette is a sports car, in fact for years it was known as America's only sports car. T/A's and Camaros started as Muscle cars and during our era (82-92) became more of a GT, like the Jaguar XJS and the Porsche 928.. fast and four seats."

Just keeping it real.

------------------
'86 Iroc ZZ4
Best Run 13.8 @ 100mph
I told you to blow the bloody doors off!
The British Firebird/Camaro Site


------------------
86 Camaro Black SS Coupe, T Tops, Flowmaster, Custom Paint, Dunlop Road Kings S/R tires, Wheel Country Directional Chrome Wheels,new charcoal & gray interior including seats and door panels, new carpet and headliner, complete front end suspension rebuild, new Valve seals, and more mods to come
http://www.angelfire.com/sports/niterider/86camaro.html
Morgan_Andre@hotmail.com

 

So if I take my back seats out, is my camaro a sports car? Seriously, how can you even call those seats?

sports car
n.
An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.

Ok, some Camaros are equipped for racing, and the especially need not apply. Its all opinionated, some people could put stickers on their honda and call it a sports car, some may call their beetles sports cars after they put lowering springs on them. Whatever floats your boat.

 

I would call it a sports car. And you call those back seats? They are ok for holding groceries, but good god man, no normal human could sit back there! :P

------------------
1983 Firebird
TH700R4 Auto
Small Block 400
LG4 ECM, Intake, Carb, Distributor, etc.
Soon to be non-computer.
Clarion Head Unit 45X4
2 Pioneer 400W 12" Subs
Third Gen Performance
"A four cylinder is half an engine."
"Ponies can run, but birds can fly..."

 

Our cars have the same layout as (excuse me for swearing) a Honda Prelude- 2+2 small back seats- is that a sports car?

A BMW 850i- very fast, sleek car- sports car- nah, but a Z8 or Z3 is. Oh and its back seats are smaller than ours

Porsche 928- A Grand Tourer or GT

Jaguar XJS- A GT

TVR- Sports car

Lamborghini- Sports car

Interestingly I perceive an old MG as a sports car, even though it is relatively slow...

It isn't just the 2 seat thing, it is more involved but being so early in the morning here I'm as slow as a 3 toed sleuth at the moment.

Please don't lock this thread, I am interested by this debate and want to learn more too!

------------------
'86 Iroc ZZ4
Best Run 13.8 @ 100mph
I told you to blow the bloody doors off!
The British Firebird/Camaro Site

 

They are Musclecars, I'll say it again.

------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited August 04, 2001).]

 

Call them what you wish, but the 3rd gen's certainly hndle like a sports car. And have the bizalls of a muscle car.
later
Mike

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(Gran Turismo Americano) "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs

 

Yeah, I agree with that.

------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited August 02, 2001).]

 

Yes and no. It has the styling of a sportscar but stuffing a V6 or low HP 305 into such a big car is far from making it a muscle car. True, they out perform or handle any of the late 60's or early 70's muscle cars but nothing about a third gen is considered heavy duty to be a muscle car. Every one of them comes with a weak 10 bolt diff except for the few with 9 bolts or the rare dana44. A muscle car would have had a 12 bolt. The 700R4 is a good tranny for a mild engine and daily street use but isn't designed for high HP or drag strip use.

People always think that the early mustangs were "muscle" cars also when most of them only came with I4, I6 or 289 engines. They didn't all come with 351's or big blocks.

A muscle car? Some but not all of them. Sports car? When compared to all the other vehicle choices now it would probably fall into that catagory.


------------------
Follow my racing progress on Stephen's racing page
and check out the race car

87 IROC-Z SuperPro ET Bracket Race Car
461 naturally aspirated Big Block

Best ET on a time slip: 11.242 altitude corrected to 10.89
Best MPH on a time slip: 121.52 altitude corrected to 125.89
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP: 497.9
Best 60 foot: 1.546

Racing at 3500 feet elevation but most race days it's over 5000 feet density altitude!
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association

87 IROC bracket car, 91 454SS daily driver, 95 Homebuilt Harley

 

Try to explain to your insurance agent that a Camaro or Firebird is not a sports car.

 

the camaros that handle well and have z-rated tires and can do the 1/4 mile in 14.5 or better are sports cars. the others are touring cars. doesn't ferarri make a 4 seater? is that a sports car? i think so. is the supra a sports car yes! is the NSX a sports car yes but it is a slow one. is the mustang a sports car. no!!! it handles like crap and runs slow and can't stop to save it's life oh it also drives like a truck. The mazda miata has 2 seats and handles well but is it a sports car. NO it has no nuts.

------------------
90 IROC l98
last season best corected 13.62 @102
mods
full exhaust, AFPR, pulley, jet stage 1 chip, billet servo, 52mm throttle body, slp runners and some 1.6 RR's and a few other little things.
243 RWHP and 342 RWTQ with hot engine and 90 octain fuel

 

I agree with zero obliquity(Sorry if I didn't spell that right). I have one of those insurance companies that don't even care that I have a V6. It's just that I have a camaro that my insurance is SO HIGH!

------------------
1992 RS 3.1L Bone Stock

"Yeah, it's a V6 SO WHAT!?"

 

As with many things in life, it depends on who you are talking to.
When it comes to generic conversation or insurance ratings, then yes, our cars are sports cars compared to the vast majority of vehicles on the road.
To a purist, a sports car only has 2 seats and has an open roof. No matter how fast and great an f body is, it will never be a sports car, it will alwyas be a GT/touring car to them. And no matter how dog slow a mazda miata or MG is, it will always be a sports car.

Who is correct. Who cares. Personally i stick more to the purist line, our cars are way too big and heavy to be a true sports car, even if they did have 2 seats. Yes too most people i drive a 'sport's car' but if i were to actually describe my vehicle, it's a GT car. If you'd rather call your camaro a sports car, fine...just don't try convincing any purists that it is one cuz you will lose.
...ed

 

Steve makes an excellent point when he mentions the first Mustangs. At the time they were a 2+2, but they coined the term "Pony Car" because there was nothing quite like it.

Our 3rd Gens are much like the first Mustangs; good handling, brisk performance with their best small block engine, seats two adults comfortably in the front and anything bigger than a small child will complain after riding in the back for any length of time.

They are not Sports Cars or Muscle Cars in my opinion because the original Mustangs and Camaros (which are much like our cars) did not meet those definitions then. IMO, a true Muscle Car is based on an Intermediate Chassis and, in the 60s, had Big Blocks. No small block Intermediate Car was called a Musclecar when I was a young driver back in the early '70s. Only Big Cube Engines got that title.

If you exclude the "Big Cube Engine" constraint, the last Musclecar produced IMO is the Buick Grand Nationals. They had the right platform, good performance and with a little "tweaking" can out perform many of the classic Musclecars from the '60s.

While I myself will sometimes refer to my car as a "Musclecar", in reality it is not. The ONLY reason I will refer to it as a "Musclecar" is because no one makes one today and its performance. In my opinion, it is really a "2+2 Coupe". If it has a V8, then the definition "Pony Car" is the more appropriate term. It just isn't used as much any more.

PS: This post does not meet the definition of "Technical". This is more of an "opinion question" which would make it "Non-Technical", since the post is seeking opinions.

[This message has been edited by Glenn91L98GTA (edited August 02, 2001).]

 

I think it depends on when, where and what kind of 3rd gen you are talking about. If it is the 4 banger or the lil ladies 6 then it is a touring car. If it is the 305 or the 350 then it could be a sports or maybe a muscle car if it has been modified. If you are in front of your insurance agents desk then it is a sports car. If is at the line against a Mustang then it has to be a Muscle car. If you are at your favorite crusie spot then it can be either or depending on what you want to achieve with your car. If you ride with your backseat down all the time like I do, then it's a sportscar. If you ride with the seat up then it's a touring car. If you take the seat out then it's a Muscle car. If the cops are chasing you they think it's a Muscle car.

You see the beauty of the 3rd gen is it can be so many things for so many different people. Long live rear wheel drive. God forbid a 5th gen with front wheel drive. I think we can all agree that would not be a sportscar or a Muscle car. Who knows what catagory that would fall in?

------------------
86 Camaro Black SS Coupe, T Tops, Flowmaster, Custom Paint, Dunlop Road Kings S/R tires, Wheel Country Directional Chrome Wheels,new charcoal & gray interior including seats and door panels, new carpet and headliner, complete front end suspension rebuild, new Valve seals, and more mods to come
http://www.angelfire.com/sports/niterider/86camaro.html
Morgan_Andre@hotmail.com

 

Hear!! Hear!! One I have explained that my Camaro is not a sports car to my insurance agent. (And he believed me.) Two everyone seems to have forgotten what a Camaro, Firebird, Barracuda, and Mustang were originally called.
They are PONY CARS!
As the name implies it probably came from the Mustang but it applied to almost any of the economy sized cars that had a small block dropped in to it. It was also nice if the car got some good styling and suspension. That was the original name for Camaro and Firebird it still applies.

------------------
84 Z28 383
Stripped w/Cage back halved w/ladder bars and coil overs and 9 inch
700R-4 3.73

 

When I was looking to buy my 88 Camaro, I asked a car dealership if they had any third gen Camaros and they said. I'm sorry we don't carry many sports cars. So there is enought proof for me. Also as mentioned earlier, our car insurance charges us for a sports car. Also I saw on an Allstate commercial once and this insurance broker said that he wont give insurance to kids with sports cars because he don't want the kids to have a wreck, then it showed a fourth gen camaro crashed on the side of a street, so with all of these facts I think that it is safe to say that Camaros are indeed Sport Cars as well as muscle cars.

------------------

1988 Carmaro RS

Bustit.Org

To see pictures of my Camaro, go to Bustit.Org and click on the About me page!
GTS Black outs for front
GTS Black outs for back
LeBra bra
K & N air filter
Flowmaster 80 series with Edelbrock Chrome tips

 

Most salesmen don't know jack about the cars they sell. I remember when I was buying my 1991 GTA and I noticed the rear drum brakes and I pointed it out to the salesman and what those were (since the sales literature said all 1991 GTAs had rear disk brakes). The saleman replied that they were "dust covers".

 

Yea sales men dont know squat about cars especially ones that are 10+ years old.
All the listings in the papers have fbodys listed as or under sports car section. This doesent mean the papers are correct either.
I would say our cars qualify as "sporty" but do not qualify as sports cars.
AS stated muscle cars are 60's-70's and would have the "factory" option of a BB.
I dont really know! Maybee we should come up with a some sort of classifacation for our cars, or someone could email or call GM and find out what exactly the 3rd gen is.
SSC

 

OK, i'll say this again for the slow people....

To the general public, our cars our sports cars. Anything that is reasonably fast and handles well is a sports car to them.

To an automobile enthusiasts our cars are GT cars.

You can call it whatever you like, but if you think our cars are sports cars you are only showing that you don't have any idea what enthusiasts define sports cars as.

This is an old debate, not only among the boards but also in every car rag you can name. And they all come to the conclusion i said above.

To the guy above who said the 4 and 6 bangers are touring cars....no not true...i guess all the ferrari GT cars were dogs too. I'm too drained to look it up, but IIRC a lot of ferraris are GT cars, not 'sports' cars. A GT car is like a sports car except it actually has function to it. Thats the big difference. Sports cars are meant to be small, nimble light and to the purist must be open roof. Most purists define the vette as a pig of a sports car due to it's size/weight.

 

Chevrolet named our cars properly once. Anyone remember the Sport Coupe label? That's what our cars are. Slang terms: a fast back, sport back, hatch back, 3 door, GT, and race car (my 10yr. old's term ).

BTW, a Ferrari F50, Porsche Carrera, Acura NSX, and a Viper are "super cars" as quoted by Car&Driver. When they listed the top 10 sports cars, the Corvette won. Some people wrote in asking "Why wasn't the Viper included?" Response, "It's not a sports car, it's a super car."

As far as insurance companies are concerned; If there is a way they can charge you more money, then they will find it. They charged out the butt for my S-10 Blazer because it's a "Sport" utility vehicle. Just because that word "sport" is in there. Crooks!!!!! But most ("most" being the key word) insurance companies call our cars sport coupes. Just so that word "sport" is in there. That's all they want to hear.

[This message has been edited by AJ_92RS (edited August 02, 2001).]

 

It doesn't matter what gen it is, a Camaro is a MUSCLECAR but can be a sportscar. Most look at those terms as the same thing, thats why we have this topic.

I'd say any car that has a V8, RWD, intended for lots of TQ and HP, made for speed, handles good, and is for going to the track and beating lots of cars on the street with its domestic power, is a musclecar.

The V6's though, could be considered as a sportscar. Why?? Its not really intended for speed, it looks fast, it handles, it shouldn't really be at the track, it doesn't beat all kinds of cars on the street, but yet it looks like a musclecar without the muscle, being a sportscar, a sporty looking car, only.

Alot of u want to go and say, "if it doesn't have a BBC, and can't handle that good, like the cars from the 60's and 70's, its not a musclecar." Thats BS. THEY ARE 80's MuscleCars, and had to conform to the standards. The 80's economy was not like the economy in the 60's and 70's. Cars had to start being made with not as many cubic inches and to be more fuel efficient. They had to go through all the emmissions BS that the other cars before didn't. Around 84 a car with 190 HP seemed like alot because of all this. Since they couldn't just put a BBC in there because of the 80's standards, instead of concentrating on power, (which they couldn't really do anyway) they turned to handling. They decided to make their performance in the handling area if they couldn't do it in the power area, until around 87 when things were getting better with economy and owners could afford it, bigger engines were put into these cars again, and the thing responsible for that is Tuned Port Injection, since it worked nicely with the smaller V8's starting in 85. (Good gas mileage and great TQ) So now u have a car that handles like an exotic with domestic muscle, a really good handling MuscleCar. THATS what a Third Gen is, which I think is really cool. I still say they are musclecars, a sporty musclecar maybe, (because of their ability to keep up with exotics in the turns) but still a musclecar.

------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
An 87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited August 04, 2001).]

 

On a purely technical level (and this is a TECH board) an 'F' car is a gran turismo or trans-am type sport coupe. Since it has provisions for more than two occupants, it gets disqualified as a sports car. Regardless of what your insurance agent or state legislature says (when is the last time either of THEM was right about anything?) the car is not a sports car.

That aside, I can go out and hop in my "sports coupe" and go hunting for true "sports" cars and spank them endlessly. The Fieros I have would technically qualify as sports cars, but despite some pretty respectable handling (saved my butt once) tend not to be able to get out of their our way. Conversely, I can think of a couple of four door sedans that would embarrass most sports cars as well.

Don't get hung up on a label - Dodge tried to sell a Charger R/T "muscle" car in the late '70s that was basically a Aspen with an anemic 340 and more plastic than Cher. I could toast each one with most school busses, but they pushed it as a muscle car. It's all a matter of perspective. Many people understand that a 1953 MG/B is a true sports car, and that a 2001 Pontiac T/A RA is a fast car, but couldn't say the opposite is true. In every aspect the TA is a better-performing vehicle, but still isn't a sports car.

Just my 2¢ (O.K. - maybe I'm up to a quarters' worth.)

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Lot of good points. I think it depends on when it was manufactured and what it's competition was at the time....AND the level of definition you want to use defining sports car purism.

Our camaros, firebirds, and T/A's were coined "the poor mans vette".... and the vette seems to be a sports car.

Problem is you really can't mix "generations" and you really can't compare American to Foreign.

When the mustang came out it was a sports car as was the camaro compared to what was being manufactured at the time....in America.

The first vette had a six banger in it. My old MG had 4 cylinders and yet it was a purist sports car as was my Triumph TR4A4 Coupe, however both were "gutless".

Myself I consider my 86 T/A a sports car. Considering it was made in America vs. other "American" cars.

Any car that comes out with Tuned Port Injection, Performance Suspension, 4 Disk Brakes, 16x8 Aluminum wheels, and T-Tops IS a sports car..... comparing it to other American models of the same time frame.

But for the purist sake use the old "Harley Theory". If it ain't a Harley it ain't a bike.....sooooooooo

1. It has to be uncomfortable and MUST emit some type of exhaust fumes, or other hallucinagenic chemicals into the cabin.
2. It has to break a lot at the most inopportune times.
3. When it breaks it has to be REAL hard to find parts.
4. When you find parts it has to be REAL expensive.
5. When you go to a mechanic or garage they have to say "we don't work on those".
6. It has to leak...... something...... anything.
7. It has to be comprised of a certain percentage of electrical tape, bailing wire, and shop rags because the parts are "no longer available".
8. It MUST have guages, it however is not important that they all work, as a matter of fact it they all work at the same time....it's disqualified.
9. And most importantly at least 10 times a day you have to hear.... "cool car.....what is it?"

[This message has been edited by MikeInAZ (edited August 04, 2001).]

 

Mike- that's good stuff. Enjoyed reading.

Techincally, no, it's not a sprots car- it's a "GT" car. However, who the he11 defined what a sports car is in the first place? It's a watered-down term that basically means ANYTHING that goes reasonably quick compared to your average minivan.

In other words: it's a point not worth arguing about.

 

Damon,

Arguing? I hope no one considers this discussion an argument. I certainly do not, simply a search for the truth.

Anyway, you bring up a good point. Let's see what "Mr. Webster" says.

www.dictionary.com says www.m-w.com/home.htm - that's Merriam-Webster, and "he" says: Not that a dictionary is the "end-all" answer. Afterall, it is usage by people, you and me, that make the definition. And that can be a bad thing.

For example, take the word "gay". It use to be a perfectly good word to describe something/someone as being happy or content. www.dictionary.com defines it as: Now I challenge anyone to use this word in public intending it to mean anything other than something homosexual, such as "I am gay" meaning "I am happy". Used with teenagers I doubt that anyone would even consider a definition other the first one.

A perfectly good word destroyed.

I'm sure you can think of many more ("...oh, that's "bad"... - meaning "good" go figure that one!).

I used this analogy only to illustrate my point that when a word is used often enough, the meaning of any word can change based on how it's used, unfortunately.

 

Or how about when two planes come close to a collision, it's a "near miss". It should be a "near hit". A "near miss" would be if the two planes hit each other, but only by the wing tips, etc. THAT would be a "near miss".

Anyway, I define my car as a "Camaro". To me it's the type of car that America is all about. Good performance, decent handling, decent gas milage, suitable ride, and stunning good looks. And I mean any generation. They were (or are) all suitable for the era that they were designed for.

Just my 2¢. Just the reasons I own one, along with others, of each gen., in the past.
AJ

 

didnt they come to be known as pony cars, and not muscle cars? they were more 'sporty' than the heavier, or bigger cars such as the chevelle, GTO, cuda, so on and so on that had big power, but competed against exxon oil tankers in turning ability. i think they are known as muscle cars if your taking into consideration their history, but as they are now, they are sports cars.. they have the same characteristics as any other 'sports cars' that exist in the world today.

------------------
83 Z28--not a pretty site, sold thank goodness

74 Z28-- 383/400, green on black. pretty clean. FOR SALE!!!

 

I remeber the Trans Am comerical a few years ago saying that the muscle car lives.

 

I love this "discussion". Let's see now. A quick recap of the first 25 post has come to this;

1. A sports car has 2 seats and is low to the ground with no top.

2. A Camaro is closer to a Muscle car than a Sports car

3. F bodies started as Pony cars to compete with Mustangs(well we know who won that race).

4. 3rd gens are probably considered GT's by the puriest.

5. You can call your car what you want but the insurance company is going to charge you for a "sports car".

This is good stuff. Keep it going.

------------------
86 Camaro Black SS Coupe, T Tops, Flowmaster, Custom Paint, Dunlop Road Kings S/R tires, Wheel Country Directional Chrome Wheels,new charcoal & gray interior including seats and door panels, new carpet and headliner, complete front end suspension rebuild, new Valve seals, and more mods to come
http://www.angelfire.com/sports/niterider/86camaro.html
Morgan_Andre@hotmail.com

 

To me it's the type of car that America is all about. Good performance, decent handling, decent gas milage, suitable ride, and stunning good looks.

ROFLMAO.. Do you guys think the rest of the World see it like that!

1) Good performance- so from 5 litres you get 165 bhp- wow!

2)Decent handling? Your cars are renowned for needing little wheels on the doors to compensate for body roll around corners!

3)Decent gas milage- don't make me laugh,economical is a rude word for you boys. In Europe economy is in the design briefs because gas is so much more expensive over here. The average over here is about 35mpg.

4)Suitable ride- yeah if you like a wallowy, boulevard type cruiser and don't have any corners.

5) Stunning good looks- One word the Cadillac Bustleback or Ford Edsel.. Mmmmmm

I'm playing Devils advecate here a bit, cars over there have improved big time, but reputations are hard to shift and of course there are always exeptions to every rule

[This message has been edited by ZZ42Fast (edited August 06, 2001).]

 

Well, in the world of emmisions, and government regulation, 165 horseys from 5 liters was doing pretty good. At the time.

To what cars are you referring? My Formula will pull .95 on the skidpad all day, and still be flatter than your 5 year old sister.

Economical is also a relative term. To us folks "over here", 20 miles per gallon out of a "sports (insert word of your choice here)" is pretty damn good. have a look at the Viper. I don't think it even makes it into double digits.

Cadillac bustleback? Edsel???? Ok, these came out when???????? I think things have changed somewhat since then.... It is not our fault that you are basing your opinions on informationt that is to say the least "outdated"

Yes, I agree, reputations are hard to get around,and there are execeptions to every rule, (even this one...) And everyone loves the devils advocate....

 

I think maybe a correct term might be "Performance Car". because my car has "Performance suspension" not sports suspension. and i have a "high performance engine". however i don't now wut would qualify as a sports engine. i personaly wouldn't call a stock thirdgen a sports car, however with a few mods it will handle with the best of them. I say this because i watched an 88-89? GTA make 3 or 4 first place runs yesturday at the autocross. now this GTA was nowhere near stock, and wasn't even street legal. even though he might not of been in the same class as a viper or S2000, he was surely beating the pants of them in times. so to sum up what i am saying, i would personaly call our thirdgens high performing vehicals. especialy since the word sport is not in there, and that would help on insurance.

my 2 cents

------------------
88' GTA 350 MODS---> air foil, K&N, Shift Kit, 180* therm, TB bypass

 

LOL, that is a classic!

 

They are pony cars in the sports car theme. They are not sports cars but they are as close to it as you get without being one. Low, wide, RWD, V8, hard to get in, mostly impratical, but Oh so fun . A new Mustang GT is a traditional pony car. Its no where near a sports car. Its like a short old school car/musclecar. Big seats, v8, RWD.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

To be installed eventually far far far into the future: Yours if the price is right and I don't have to ship :
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.

Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz

 

I guess I might be on my own but I though 3rd gens were coined Modern Muscle, because we fit the catagory of old .... and we are sports cars as well because everyone and there dog have a ****ING MINIVAN from Chrysler Dodge or Plymouth .... oh wait they all look the same but have different colors ..... **** MAN!!!! Ok I think Im done (PS got passed on the highway by a caravan doing 140kph - **** go buy a Camaro/Firebird)

------------------
1989 GTA 350 TPI
Stock:
- T-tops
- Dual cats
- 9-Bolt 7.75" Rearend
- 3.27 gears
Mods:
- Dynomax Super Turbo Muffler

1992 RS 305 TBI - Sold

[This message has been edited by Drakar (edited August 07, 2001).]

 

I always thought I was THEE dunce because I asked my self this question a few times. Well we have the quotes and the terms of everyone else in the world to listen to. I chose to listen to myself. So here is my 2cents . . well look at it this way . . .

when some one asks you, "WHAT DO YOU DRIVE?" What do you tell them. Most likely you DON'T say, "that muscle car over there", or "that blue sports car over there"

You/we/I say, A CAMARO, AND SO ON (everyone knows what they drive)

well my point is that we usually refer to our "car" by name, because everyone in the world knows what a Camaro or a Firebird is right? But what is a sports car, or a muscle car, as we can tell from this topic it is difficult to nail down a TRUE definition.

ITS ALL ABOUT PRIDE.

[This message has been edited by 89project (edited August 07, 2001).]

 

Obviously you don't read past what you want to read. Then you turn it into something to critisize. Pretty busy life you have, huh?

If you would have continued to read my statement, then you would have also read, Another point that you missed due to the fact that you are a Brit and not an American, is that I never cared about what the rest of the world thinks about them. Read again; NOT what the rest of the world thinks about them. They are American cars, built for Americans, not "World Cars", built for the world.

Please read entire content before you judge, OK *****?

 

Umm correct me if I'm wrong but was'nt GM's posters and adds back in 1969 for the Camaro was "America's Great Muscle Car" just a suggestion and was'nt the 1st Camaro more powerful than the stock Corvette at the time???

------------------
1987 IROC-Z
G92, LB9 305 TPI, 3.23, Bright Red with Carmine Interior, Pioneer DEHP47DH CD deck.2 JBL DS645 4*6 (F).. 2 JBL DS965 6*9 (S).. Soon to get new 305 TPI

 

the only GM car to be labled as more powerful as the Corvette in the same year was the LS7 Chevelle.
-Tas

 

Let's put it All American Muscle.........No part in a Camaro/Firebird was put together in some Over Seas Country.....No part in a Vette was put together is some Over Seas Country......No part in a Chevelle was put together in an Overseas Country.......NO CAR REPEAT NO CAR IN JAPAN, Sweden, Italy,Germany, etc......etc....etc.... IS CALLED A MUSCLE CAR......

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1987 IROC-Z
G92, LB9 305 TPI, 3.23, Bright Red with Carmine Interior, Pioneer DEHP47DH CD deck.2 JBL DS645 4*6 (F).. 2 JBL DS965 6*9 (S).. Soon to get new 305 TPI

 

Guess you haven't heard about AutoPac where SOME PART of every American car contains a part made in Canada since the early 1960s or how the current 4th Gen is made in St. Theresa Que?

No, Canada is not an Overseas Country; but it is a different country.

 

Sports Cars are in foreign countrys...........and SuperCars like the vette,mclaren,ferrari,Lamborghini,etc......are all high HP stock cars......And are fast...True once the 3rd gen Vette came out it started to become a quote un quote SPORTS CAR., But it is still ALL AMERICAN MUSCLE........3rd gen F-Body's true higher grade Z28/IROC's and GTA/TransAMs have the handling of an Supercar I mean the Skidpad is beautiful on our cars and even 0-60 times are great..... IT HANDLES LIKE AN SPORTS CAR yet are great Muscle I mean how many other cars can beat ya at a light Not all that many especially if you have 305 or 350 with TPI......

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1987 IROC-Z
G92, LB9 305 TPI, 3.23, Bright Red with Carmine Interior, Pioneer DEHP47DH CD deck.2 JBL DS645 4*6 (F).. 2 JBL DS965 6*9 (S).. Soon to get new 305 TPI

 

Canada's not a Country lol it's just woods and ice lol ...but you know what i mean though overseas right

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1987 IROC-Z
G92, LB9 305 TPI, 3.23, Bright Red with Carmine Interior, Pioneer DEHP47DH CD deck.2 JBL DS645 4*6 (F).. 2 JBL DS965 6*9 (S).. Soon to get new 305 TPI

 

hey on the Gateway 2000 commercial I just saw and old fart get out of an 90 or 91 firebird lol it was bright red

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1987 IROC-Z
G92, LB9 305 TPI, 3.23, Bright Red with Carmine Interior, Pioneer DEHP47DH CD deck.2 JBL DS645 4*6 (F).. 2 JBL DS965 6*9 (S).. Soon to get new 305 TPI

 

I guess Australia isn't overseas then?

 

I have never heard the term "muscle car" used on anything but cars made in the U.S.

Has anyone heard of a foreign car that was consider a muscle car?

"Performance car" sounds more intimidating that "sports car". "Sports car" sounds, for lack of a better word, "gentlemanly".

 

Thats very good, now what about my other points, you seem to only be dwelling on one.

And don't call me William.

OK Sap

 

Although it is a term I would put aside for big engined American beasts, there are a couple of foreign cars that I would consider 'Muscle';

AC Cobra (AC cars GB)
Lotus Carlton (or Omega in Germany) 377bhp 5 seat power house (bit like the British GNX)
Sunbeam Tiger
TVR- all models
Jenson Interceptor
Brabus Mercedes
Aston Martin Vantage- 660bhp British Muscle car. In fact all Astons are regarded over here as that, big engined, crude mechanicals and of course rear wheel drive.
Cosworth Escort

 

And they are not true muscle cars unless they have a big block.

 

Why not just get rid of the whole sports car classification. There are cars that are "sporty", thats it. Whether they are fast or not is a whole other issue.