Hi folks,

I need some help on finding out what these parts (2pcs) are and where they go (1pc).

For starters where dealing with a 91 RS Convertible Camaro with a stock 305 TBI.

In the first picture below......
I've been reading on these boards that a fan relay is located on the pass side near the rad. I looked all over and I found no such relay anywhere near the rad or by the lights near the battery. All I found was this little guy hanging on the fender near the overflow tank. It has a red and orange wire coming out of it and it looks like a fuse of some sort.
I traced the wires, but they go into a large cluster of wires and I can't find out what they go to. Any ideas what this is for??




In the second picture below.......

Still trying to locate the fan relay, I turn to my Haines and Chilton manuals which are a total waste of money. Now they tell me the fan relay is on the drivers side near the brake booster. Everyone here says the fan relay is no where near the brake booster.
I know one of these two things are for the fuel but don't know which.
I've labeled them A and B, could you tell me what they are??




Ok, Finally in the third pic.....
I was down at autozone getting a new fanswitch for the car. While looking through the cooling section of their computer I noticed a part called TEMP SWITCH. It was under $10 for the part and figured what the heck I'll buy it and replace it.

Only problem is......
I have no friggen clue as to where this TEMP SWITCH goes on the car. Again I turn to my two worthless manuals which to no surprise offer no help in located where this part goes.
I jacked up the car and crawled underneath and found that part between the 1st and 3rd cyl. which I think is the Temp guage sending unit. Either way... that's definately not it, the connection is completely different.

So where does this TEMP SWITCH go?




I want to thank you in advance for taking the time to read this long post, but I felt I needed to clarify before the questions stared flying.

 

#3 goes in the passenger side cylinder head between cylinders 6 and 8.

Do yourself a favor and exchange that switch. It turns on around 235°F. Pickup a fan switch for an '87 Buick Grand National. They turn on around 203°F.

 

#1 - Fuel pump / ECM power fuse and fuseholder.

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Later,
Vader
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"Get UP - Drop the bombshell!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Picture # 3 is a TEMP SWITCH not a FAN SWITCH.

Here's a picture of a fan switch.



And I agree with getting a lower temp fan switch. In fact I've got one coming in tonight from Autozone.
It's the Hypertech fan switch that turns on @176 and off @166. I'm also going to put in a 160 or 170 stat.

So where does #3 go??
I'm thinking it goes somewhere in the area of # 1 and 3 cyl, but I could not see anything there.
Could the temp switch be a part of the EGR??

 

Incidentally, the wire colors on the relay sockets should be the clue to identifying them - I would have thought two guys from Lancaster woulda figured that out....

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Later,
Vader
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"Get UP - Drop the bombshell!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

I'm slipping. Must read slower....

The #3 pic isn't the ECM temp sensor (two pin connector). It must be for the temp gauge which, like you said, is between cyl's 1 and 3. The ECM temp sensor is in the intake manifold.

There are only 3 temp sensors on the TBI cars. Fan, ECM, and gauge.

haha Vader

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited August 28, 2001).]

 

Thanks Vader......

I'll do some more investigating in terms of wire colors.

Uhhh,,,,two guys from lancaster?
You had me going there for a minute.
But it's TWO different states with the same city name.
For a minute there I thought I finally met someone on here from Lancaster, CA.

 

Well, then maybe they gave me the wrong part.
I found the ECM temp sensor on the car.
But the connector is WAY different than this thing. The one on the car looks like it snaps on where as this temp switch has a spade connector. I'll have to go back down there and have them get me a temp sensor and then compair it to this temp switch that they gave me.

Maybe this Temp Switch is for the EGR. Hmmm..
I really need to break down and buy me a Helms manual.

[This message has been edited by sunbitz (edited August 28, 2001).]

 

Pic #3 is for the temp gauge on the dash, it goes between the 1 and 3 plugs.

Vader already got the first one.

The fan relay is probably one of the two in the second pic. Have someone cross the number for the one that has a number and see if thats it.

 

Just pushing this back to the top.

I'm still looking for the right answer for pic #3.

#3 is NOT a Sensor!!!
Look at the picture on the box it says Temp. Switch.

I looked underneath the car at 1 and 3 cyl. and found the temp sensor.
It does not have this kind of connector that is on the temp switch.

Temp Sensor has a sparkplug type of connection.

Temp Switch has a spade connector.

And yes, I do know the difference between the spark plugs and the temp sensor.

And as far as the fan relay goes.....

When did Chevy change it's location from the front of the engine bay to the rear by the firewall??

Many people on these boards keep saying look for the fan relay up by the battery.

 

I already told you what #3 was, they changed the terminal design from what was originally on the car.

 

OH!
They changed the terminal design!
NOW I GET IT!

So they also changed the name from temp sensor to temp switch??

I have to ask before I go tearing into this thing and change the wires.
I really don't want to go through this just to find out it's something else and I wind up draining the rad twice and putting the old "sensor" back in the car.

Thanks for clearing this up with me.
I appreciate that.

 

Temp sensor/temp sender/temp switch, same thing.

I dont know what it is you are trying to accomplish, but if the temp gauge in the car reads ok theres really no reason to replace it.

I am pretty sure sometime around 88 the fan relay starting floating around the engine bay.

 

Thanks Madmax.

Accomplish??

Well, just trying to repair it before it decides to fail on me.
I know it falls into the category of... if it ain't broke then don't fix it.
but.....

I'm going to install a new fanswitch this weekend and I thought might as well go ahead and get a new temp switch/sensor and temp sending unit while I have everything apart now.

Both parts were under $20 and the car has all of the original sensors on it and it has 125,000 miles.

From reading on these boards everyone has been dealing with bad sensors here lately at one time or another. So I figure it's worth the $20 since I have to drain all the fluids out of the engine for the fanswitch anyway.

And it would be my luck if I were to only replace the fanswitch and nothing else and then the temp sensor decide to fail a few days later.

Let's just say I'm going into routine maitenance for all the sensors on the car.
None have been replaced and I think I read somewhere that they should be replaced every 30k or so and definately by 125k if original.

Anyway....
Thanks for putting up with my stupidity, but the fact is I learned something and I won't ever have to ask this again.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.

 

Pic 3 is the temp sending unit for either a gauge or a "I'm HOT you dummy" light. Like Max says, they used a different terminal; there are some cars that use the "mushroom" style and some that use the spade style, either of the 2 connectors will fit this style of SU, so that's the one most of the replacement ones use.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Thanks for the confirmation.

Now I can sleep and go attack this thing with some confidence this weekend.

 

My rule of thumb has always been..

• The word sensor is for the computer/ECM (Intake) also it almost always means EXPENSIVE.
• The word switch means on/off like in cooling fan. (in head between #6 & #8 spark plug)
• The sending unit has info for gauges or idiot lights. (in head between #1 & #3 spark plug)

Image 3 in the original post says switch but is a sending unit. Wells must be getting creative with the names.

Has anyone seen a website or area on a site that has diagrams, or better yet, photos of the various systems (electrical/emissions/hose and belt routing/vacuum/fuel/etc...) with locations and good pictures of all components?? I know the manuals have alot of info but I'm yet so see one REALLY cover these systems adequately for the novice. Take the wiring diagrams in the Haynes manuals...great for understanding the path and wire colors but doesn't show the locations of the components. There are many of us that KNOW our thirdgens and all the parts...and I love to help the novice learn their car too...I just think a nice easy to navigate resource for the basics might help. If nobody knows of a nice site like this...maybe I'll start putting one together. I recently unscrambled a botched motor swap (cut wiring harnesses, toggle switch circuits, omitted vacuum devices and relays, lights and gauges inoperative) and realized that if the guy had a place to go see where everything originally went he might have been able to save alot of time, money and headaches. I could have used an accurate vacuum diagram myself. Just a thought!





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There is no substitution for cubic inches!

 

I have to agree with everything mentioned in the above post.

I know my way around an engine, but when they started putting computers and sensors into cars has left me with a blank stare and scratching my head.

I remember the days on my older cars without computers.
If the engine wasn't running right I knew exactly what was wrong or at least could figure out what was wrong through simple troubleshooting.

This technology has been great for the once called mechanic... now called technician. In the sense that a technician makes almost as much money as some doctors.
But it has left the do it yourselfer in the dust. I really don't want to spend the time or money to get ASE certified just to do repairs on my car.

The simple solution is to buy a pre 80's car and go back to the simple life of auto repairs.

To give a example....
A friend of mine bought an older car for a good price and the seller told him that it had bad sensors and this would make the car run VERY rough if at all at certain times.
Well, the seller was right and these sensors would cost him over $300 to replace. He did not have the money so several times a day he would have to disconnect the battery for 30 minutes in order for the computer to reset and get the car to run.
Damnest thing I ever saw, but it worked each and every time.

Well, getting back to the original problem.

I went to Wells website and they had no info on their parts or at least THIS part.

Before I install this TEMP SWITCH I'm going back down to Autozone and ask for a Temp Sending unit and see if they wind up giving me the same part. If they do then everything is hunky dory and I'm out the door.
The word SWITCH is what is bothering me, because I too think switch means on/off.

If wells just screwed up on the labeling then that's one thing, but it could very well be that autozone gave me the wrong friggen part.
People that enter parts into the autozone database are computer people not auto people.
And I really don't think there is one person in the world that knows every part ever made for every engine out there.

As for the manuals.....
I first bought the Haines manual only to find I needed more information. So then I bought the Chiltons manual which is better and almost twice as thick as the haines manual. But I still wind up searching for answers. That's where the helms manual come into play.

I really like the idea that Helms has a manual for the year of your car, not spanning a ten year period covering 4,6 and 8 cyl. The helms manual is $90 from their website but I think it's worth every penny and I'm going to order me one very soon.

To finish this long and wordy post.
I'd really like to disconnect the computer and take out everything related to the computer, but fear that we won't pass the tight California Emissions laws.

This is the only car we own right now, but my next car purchase will be pre 1980, that way if something goes kaput I know I can fix it.

 

I bet #3 is for an in-dash idiot light. It really is a switch in that case... it's off below a certain temp and on above it.

Want to find out? Measure the resistance. If it's a dead short, or open circuit, it's a switch. If it's a temp sender, you'll get a reasonable resistance value.

Checking the connector won't do you a damn bit of good, the "switch" for the light and sender for the gauge are in exactly the same spot on the motor and use the same connector. You need a good multimeter when working with this electrical stuff anyway

BTW, if it's a dead short, it's probably a BAD switch

[This message has been edited by 99Hawk120 (edited August 31, 2001).]

 

Ok I didnt read the last 3 posts so forgive me if i'm repeating, but like someone said, the temp switch, sender and sensor are 3 diff things, and when you're a parts guy you need to differentiate. anyway, a temp SWITCH, which will turn on at a given temperature, usually has that temp. stamped on the bottom of it somewhere. naturally, in our case anyway, that switch turns the fan on. as I have never owned a TPI, I dont know exactly where that switch is. the engine temp. sender (for the guage) is between #1 and 3, as previously stated. these two items are usually 1 terminal. the coolant temperature sender for the ECM is located somewhere in the intake, or on the water neck for CC Q-jet cars. this sender usually has a 2 pin weatherpack connection w/ that little rubber seal inside. each different brand calls each sender/switch/sensor something diffeent, which makes it difficult to deal with sometimes and I almost always snap a customers neck when I have to ask "which temp sensor" because they think they know all and certainly must be correct in saying that they only have 1, people will argue it for hours. anyway, the only way to be 100% sure is to match your old piece up to a new one. grab all 3 part numbers listed in that brand and compare.

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85 Z28- 350, Comp 262, Edelbrock Performer intake, Edelbrock 600 cfm carb and Edelbrock cat back, Summit headers and vette servo
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