Colorado Emissions:

1989 Firebird Formula
305/TPI/5Spd
Factory Dual catalytic converters
Lmtd Slip Diff.
I run premium (91) grade fuel and here are my results:

Cat Conveter-Pass
Fuel Filter Restrictor-Pass
Air Injection System Pass
Oxygen Sensor-Pass
Check enginer Light-Pass
Fuel Cap-Pass
Co2 GPM- 359 (no specified limit) pass
NoX 1.0721 (limit 6.0) pass
HC GPM 3.62 (limit 3.00) Fail
CO GPM 62.8446 (limit 20!) Fail

Any suggestions?

Thank you for any information

 

With the Hydrocarbons at that level it means that you are running rich. If you have a adjustable fuel pressure regulator turn the fuel pressure down 3-4 lbs. Also retard your ignition timing. Retard the timing 4 degs from where it's at right now. Lastly, put the lowest octane fuel in. It burns faster than higher octane.
www.geocities.com/dzperf

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D&Z Performance
"Putting Power to the Pavement"

 

HC & CO too high = rich mixture, or bad cat.

Try a new O2 sensor first. If that doesn't help, get new cats. Looking at your numbers, my guess is that it's almost certainly going to need cats.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Thanks for the info guys, I found some other posts that were generally along the same topic, but either cryptic or the variables did not apply to my situation. I brought it to a shop, that has a 98% effective rate on firt time repairs, which as you and I guessed it , probably charges more.
But as they say, if you're going to do it, do it right.

I just hate to get that call for a price on new cats, especially since I have two.
If I remember correctly, cats cost $250+ apiece, right?
Anyone give me some links on places that have street prices on catalytic conveters?

(*Prays it is just because he put high-octane in*)


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You can get a high flow cat for 100 bucks, Im not sure how much a normal one costs because its a waste of money to me


Try www.summitracing.com, look for catco.

 

Called the guys and they are banking on the fuel injectors.

They said 3 of them are bad so far, and gave me a price of $180(Not including labor) apiece. Now this is from a Tire and Auto Station, with no affiliations with anyone but goodyear.
I called a GM place and they said $140 is what they charge.
Is $180 outrageous?

They only reason I have my ar at this place is they have done 40+ repairs with a 98% re-pass rate. I do believe that is why the charge more, because Im paying for premium service.

Suggestions?

 

Send your injectors to Rich at www.cruzinperformance.com

For about $100 he'll clean them all and for a couple more $$$ he'll flow match them.

I got a set of them off of a Mousetank, sent them to him, and put them in my wife's Cadillac 4.9 liter... it's like it's some whole other car. Incredilble Why waste money on more of the same? You should consider getting that Multec crap off there if you do anything to them at all. The F*rd ones are Denso.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

All I can say is that I'm glad I have a carb

 

Also, we have no emissions inspections of ANY sort

 

RB83,
Id love to send them to anyone someone would give me a reference for, but this is the car I drive to work 5 days a week, 70 miles a day.

Turns out the injectors are not 'plugged' rather the copper windings in them are worn or can no longer perform the fucntion designed for. The manager of the station refused to tell me which ones were bad, finally I asked if he could provide me with those numbers, he could provide with his managers number. Upon speaking to the manager (Incidently the guru who worked on my car), he provided them to me, and advised that no cleaning would work because they were electricly failing. The OHMs were supposed to be about .17 he said, yet 1 was .09 and the other two were .10 (It sounded pretty real anyway)


In any case, could some one advise me how to check resitance on these bad boys, so I can verify that they are really the ones he said, so I'm not wasting my time.
I have a Chiltons book, but it is not helpful in the area of providing me with electrial specifications.

Thank you,

Fim




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Same thing happened to me... Same shpeel my mech gave me... it sounds real enough... However, DO NOT!!!!!! make the same mistake I made and have them relpace only one... rather than spend 180 on 1 new one... spend 200 on an entire set of new ones. And as already mentioned, get the Ford ones, keep the retainers and get the o-rings from a reliable source, it's basically a direct swap, and a much better alternative.

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1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

 

I saw that someone mentioned rich at cruzin performance. I bought a set of accel fuel injectors from him for $229.00 plus tax. These are brand new 26lb/hr injectors. Plus if you call and talk to him he really knows his stuff. I know he has the same brand injectors in stock(19lb/hr and 22lb/hr) sizes as well as way bigger for supercharged or nitrous engines too.

 

You can get a full set of injectors from Accell for a lot less than what they will charge you for 2. Why i the hell wouldn't they tell you which ones were bad. I'd tell them that its my damn car and they had better tell me or somebody is gonna have a real bad day. Man, that kinda crap pisses me off.
bsa

 

Well they need to tell you which injectors are bad to prove they actually tested! A good threat of calling the CBOBB should do the trick. Second I dont know why people have had problems passing the emmisions test. I lived in denver for 2 years when I finally couldent use the I live in pueblo just work up here excuse. I poped two cats on and passed with flying colors. They dident even check to see if I had any other emmisions junk just ran it on thier machine and said your good.
Good luck!
SSC

 

Ok heres the deal.

I decided to test myself and this is what I came up with:

3 of the injectors are running a resitance of 16.3 Ohms, 1 of them is running 16.5
That leaves the 16.5 within 2% of the other 3.

One is running 10.4, one is 14.4 and the last is 15.9; all out of the range of the 2% tolerance specified somewhere I cannot recall.

Another deal,
I went down to napa, incidently across from Goodyear which has looked at my car, and asked about 3 fuel injectors for my formula.
The manager said the mechanic from Goodyear had been over asking about the same injectors I did, for the same model of car (Coincidence?), and he had quoted both the mechanic and I $117 apeice, and he had to order them from the factory cause there was only one avail. and that was in KC.
Hmm, I wonder how many other people grab thier ankles for this place?
A bunch of senile old mechanics think they can screw with this 21 year old? That dog don't bark.
I just wish the little pamphlet included with the brochure for failing your emmisions not only included effectiveness of the repairs, but also customer service, and average price.
Or I wish I could find out how to get ahold of the owner, or call 20-20 and have Barbara Strieland de-scam this old bastards.

This also includes the $200 ac-delco spark plug wires they quoted, as well as the 4.99 apiece spark plugs.

Anyway, for all the electric/injection gurus out there, would the 10.4 Ohm injector be sending more or less gas into my motor than the 16.3?

Like I said irocbsa, the mechanic and front counter guys manager had no problems telling me, and the front counter guy cowarded after the conversation and said it was 'his job'.

SSC what is the CBOBB, and where do I find them?

I think some people do have major problems passing them and unsure why, I was confident I would not have a problem until I verified myself that 3 of my injectors are not operating correctly.

And I still get 26-28MPG, and have plenty of power! No misfiring, no knocks, or anything.

 

Update:

New injectors in and running wonderful,

emmisions still failed.
Before:
Cat Conveter-Pass
Fuel Filter Restrictor-Pass
Air Injection System Pass
Oxygen Sensor-Pass
Check enginer Light-Pass
Fuel Cap-Pass
Co2 GPM- 359 (no specified limit) pass
NoX 1.0721 (limit 6.0) pass
HC GPM 3.62 (limit 3.00) Fail
CO GPM 62.8446 (limit 20!) Fail

After:
Cat Conveter-Pass
Fuel Filter Restrictor-Pass
Air Injection System Pass
Oxygen Sensor-Pass
Check enginer Light-Pass
Fuel Cap-Pass
Co2 GPM- 359 (no specified limit) pass
NoX 1.0721 (limit 6.0) pass
HC GPM 6.2 (limit 3.00) Fail
CO GPM 7.6 (limit 20) Pass

Quite a difference!
Now, I plan on doing the O2 sensor and some G2P from Pepboys, any other suggs. please?

 

Your NOx is low and HC high - than is indicative of a rich mixture. The O2 sensor may do the trick. G2P is simply a cleaner, won't help at all if the rich running has wiped out your converters. Since your CO is low, that probably isn't the case, though.

Where exactly do you live? I'm sitting here trying to figure out "SD" and all I can come up with is "San Diego".

As for the difference in price you mentioned before between NAPA and Goodyear, NAPA is quoting you the jobber price and Goodyear the list price. Goodyear is getting some profit for going and getting you the parts, that's all. Common and reasonable practice.

PS: Are you sure you typed those numbers in correctly? Your CO2 and NOx are exactly the same between the two tests. It doesn't make sense that the CO would drop that much with just injectors change, and not affect either one of those.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. 2-1/2" cat-back, ZZ3 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam, ported World 305 heads, Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" cat-back, Spohn SFCs).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

South Dakota :-)

And just curious... why are injectors so oddly expensive?? Ive got a good old carb so ive never replaced them before, but that just seems way to much $$ for such a little dinky thing.

 

High HCs is an indication of a misfire. When was the last tune-up? Are all cylinders firing? Good compression?

 

All cylinders were firing, plugs looked good, and wires are looking good (Doesnt always mean much though)

Five7Kid, South Dakota, is where I was from, just have not updated. I have recently moved to Parker in may, and am moving to Littleton in about 1 week. (Wadsworth/470 area).

A comparision for South Dakota and Colorado is basically, 5 times as much snow in SD, and 1/5 as many people.

And yes five7, I realize the profit, but I think it was a little insane.
Yes all the numbers were correct, as they had to run the test twice, because they thought something was wrong

Update:
I sold the car to a kid in the area, who has taken the task of fixing it himself, he assured me he would let me know what was wrong so I could post it in case people need some future reference. I got a good price, paid off my loan and I cried when he drove away
They thing is I drove everyday from Parker to Golden, about ~35 miles and in 5 months put 10,000 miles on the car I bought with 65,000 miles.

Now Im looking for another car, but rest assured, and update will be posted.

Fim