Well, if any of you can see the pic in my sig, you very well know that I currently dont own an F-Body. Good for me. But I'm here because I need a lot of advice and tips while looking for one. My situation is that I have a 92 AWD Turbo Eagle Talon. I've done some engine alterations, nothing too big. Probably pushing 240-250hp right now. Anyway, the AWD is something great to have up here in Upstate NY where there are winters(I hate SUV's!) and I dont want a Subaru, I started out by buying my mother's Old Talon when I was 17, it was a non-turbo, but good enough. Now I have this one. But I love the 3rd gen Camaros, always have, always will, and now I can actually get one as well as my current car. So I'm here with a barrel of questions...

I have, like I said, 240-250hp off the crank. I get about 21mpg city and 23mpg hwy (damn awd...)

I notice the specs off a webpage say that the 5Ltpi engines put out about 210hp and get about 18city and 25hwy (is that right? thought the TPI helped that a lot?)

Then there's the good ol' 350tpi that puts out about 240 hp and 15/22mpg.

Are those right? If those are the stock HP ratings, that's fine. It's the gas milage that I dont like, I go a good 220-240 miles a week, and a good portion is city type driving... But then again I could use 87 octane instead of the 93 the turbo requires... anyway! Any of you guys get better milage then that?

To finish off the HP, I'd be looking at about 350 or so off the crank, slightly more, slightly less, that's okay. I'm used to dealing with forced induction, so a paxton sounds mighty fine to add to the fun.

But I'd rather stay around, or about 18-19mpg city. I dont drive it like a lunatic, with a huge v8, who needs to? But that's practically 3 times the displacement of my current engine. Big stuff. What about getting a rolling chassis and a new LS1 and 6 speed? I figure the similar 350's wouldnt be too hard to swap, aside from mounts, ECU's etc.

Also in the 3rd gen, any big problems to look out for, or any good signs? I do know my way all over, and inside an engine block and a car, it's just a matter of looking in someone's driveway where I cant take it apart to look at it on the spot.

(And as extra notion, another reason I am looking to sell my Tsi AWD is my cousin, who owns a heavily modded 86 Buick GN, dyno'd at about 550hp to the rear wheels(with 27# of boost! ****!), and I want to be able to keep up with him, and the 4 banger dosen't have a chance. Yes I know I'll need a lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of tuning, but I get paid enough to support my habits, bills, and I'm not quite 21. I got time.

Please guys let me know!

 

Those gas mileage numbers are reasonably typical for one of these cars in good condition, assuming the driver keeps his right foot under control.

Keep in mind when you look at those numbers that you're comparing more than just HP and drive trains; you're also comparing a 3400 lb car to a 2700 lb one. Viewed in that light, I would conclude that the Mitsubishi's gas mileage sucks, and I would be wondering how that massive behemoth of a 3rd gen gets such great mileage while the little flivver Mitsu can't do any better than it does; especially since the Mitsu has a tiny motor that ought to be pretty stingy if the driver doesn't spool up the turbo very much.

Another thing to look at: torque is what accelerates a car, not HP. What is the torque rating of the DSM compared to the 3rd gen? And how does that compare to the gas mileage?

The LS1 is quite different from the older SBC. They are almost as different as if from 2 different mfrs. Not a drop-in at all.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by RB83L69 (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

Well said RB!
My friend has an 89 Z28 tbi 305+.30 tire ripping 280hp engine, He gets well over 26mpg highway under normal driving conditions. I have an low output 305, with a cam thats designed for performance only application, squat vaccume and I get 22mpg city Heavy A$$ firbird too. "Estimated 220hp" Talk about how inefficent light rice grinders are . LOL.
Your cousins car is out of a stock thirdgens league! So if your wanting a car to beat him you better start looking for a TTA.
SSC

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85 Camaro, 355/400 "drag car" in moth ***** 13.1@ 101mph on its last season run.
Plans: Possibly add N20 for next season.
82 Firebird, 305/350 currently moth balled.
Current plans: Rebuild 305 with flat tops instead of the dished "cups" for pistons or slightly built 327 with the 58cc heads from the LG4, Upgrade the 2:73 to 3:73 or 3:42 and replace the turbo 350 with 700r4.


"Web site under construction"

G0D Bless.

 

Welcome aboard,
There is a guy on these boards that I believe has a TA and has envoked closed loop to get 30mpg. If you want to keep up with the GN you don't have to get a TTA, but you'll have to mod the heck out of the 350 and do complete suspension work to handle the power. You'll also have to rebuild the trans to sustain that amount of power, in mid 87 is when they changed some internals of the 700R4 making them a little better. Get a Transgo reprogramming shift-kit, this is what transfixleo will tell you on the tranny board and he knows what he is talking about. With the amount of power you want if you get a 3rd with T-Tops you'll definately have to make sure you're going to do suspension work so you don't twist the frame. If you want a daily driver car that is going to keep up with a 550hp GN, you can't be too concerned with mpg, as I'm not sure what you could get out of that much power. And remember it's not all about HP, there are gears and TC's that help acceleration just as much as HP. A big advantage of the LS1's is they are an aluminum block and that's just as good as HP. But one thing you will have to think about is emissions where you live, I'm not from NY so I don't know how strict they are.

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'86 IROC
T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK TES HEADERS
3" Hooker CatBack w/Aero Chamber muffler
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
160* Stat
3:73 Posi
Rebuilt 700R4
B&M Megashifter, 5" Autometer Tach w/shift lite

 

Welcome to the club. For starters, scratch the 87 octane idea as you shouldn't run it in a stock TPI, and most likely not in anything making 550hp at the rear wheels....

To get that kind of power from a TPI it will have to be maxed out, including heads, cam, intake components, injectors, PROM work, full exhaust...and then at least a blower and perhaps a 150 shot of nitrous. If you're stuck on the TPI setup (I like the looks too), then I won't say it can't be done. But you'll definitely need a power adder.

I would not set such a lofty goal, but if you must have that kind of power, look into a 400+ cubic inch Bowtie Block setup, or Motown 415 or 427 with maybe a Miniram or Superram setup. These engine combinations have the potential to provide those power levels N/A, or could easily do so and more with a blower.

If you just want 350 at the crank, a maxed out N/A TPI can provide it and 400+ ft-lbs of torque, but not without some serious work and $$$. Hope this helps.

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1990 IROC 350
Mods: Too busy trying to make it run right to mod it.
Airfoil, Dynomax cat-back, MSD coil, 180 t-stat, Bald Eagle tires,
Hypertech fan switch, Accel 23# injectors, Holley module, ported plenum,
Ported Daytona Yellow stock base, Moroso valve covers, other stuff,
Streetdampr, Ruger P95DC, hot wife, new oil filter, !cats, !TBC, !AIR.
18.0 @ 85MPH since I'm one big-a$$ MF
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."

 

Actually, my lil' rice burner weighs in at 3250, with 5 gal of race gas and no driver. I never got around to dieting it. Yes, the torque is suprisingly high for a 4-banger, espicially compared to the *ahem ****-box* honda VTEC engine. Dumb thing... But that is the reason I am looking for a v8, in that the torque is rather high for the power. My 21mpg isnt bad in the city, espicially considering i am pretty mean to it and it is an a/t. The fwd cars get better milage, but then off the line, no front wheel traction. Anyway. His car is not a daily driver. Infact, it's currently being rebuilt from when I blew out the seals on the block from running so much boost. It can handle it for a good few dozen runs, but then needs a rebuild. Like I could get my Talon up to 450hp, yeah, with a stupidly large turbo, race gas, etc etc, but it'd overstress the normal capability of the engine. There GN is really heavy, even compared to the 3g camaros, but with that much HP and torque I wont keep up with it easily, and I know that. Off the line is where he'll always kick my *** . Now different pulleys will determine the boost off a blower, hence a small pulley for normal street use, putting out very little boost, then a larger one for the strip. Though HP is a good goal, allowing it to stay at 20mpg during easy driving dosent need to be sacrificed to have a hard car, and even if I only get 350 crank HP from it, it'd still be a daily driver, and his isnt.

Emissions in upstate NY arent bad at all - in the city, it's a different game.

And were I not concerned with Gas milage, I'd jump all over a 427. Hence one of my loves for the 80's muscle cars...

I remember when I was little, visiting family in Binghampton, I was about 8 or 10. My Uncle Dave, with a Jet Black 82 Camaro, chrome plated blower sticking out of the hood sitting on top of a rebuilt 427, crushed red velvet interior... He showed it. It was a gorgeous car, everything was chrome and polished. My cousin (18 at the time) with the Black 86 GN, still stock, and my father with his Black 77 Camaro... Comon. Now that's a way to grow up!!! Alas, Dave sold his for around $15,000 5 years ago, my father later that month, and the GN still lives. But if only there were pictures from that family gathering... So what can I say, the F-Body is in my blood.

Though I'd love a TTA, the appeal is immense, it's not a camaro. And one reason I espicially want one is ever since I was 13 my father and I never got along, we really never did, and now that I'm on my own, I want to try and get back a father I never really enjoyed time with, and now he's getting older, and this'd be something for us to get back some lost time with (and some speeding tickets as somehow my father in his life has only gotten 1...)

But guys you are really helpful so far. I'm stuck between the 301 and 350, and TPI is a good thing. Yes to suspension work. 26 highway mpg? That's pretty impressive. With my Car, I have a MAF sensor and a piggy-back computer to help lean and tune the mixture to it's peak. Yes I also have the full EGT, A/F gauges etc, but can such a device be implemented on a TPI engine? That'd be a good start to controlling the fuel mixture for better milage, and reducing rotating weight another good assistant. And you also not suggest running 87 in a tpi? It runs of high test? Didnt know that.

 

W/o going through your whole last post...we don't need no stinkin' piggy backs or aftermarket pieces to tune our stuff. You can easily reprogram the stock computer to do anything you want. You're so at the tip of the iceberg here that i'll let you go through and explore all the great info there is to be learned on this site.