ok i am getting ready to start putting the motor together and i know i shold build my 350 i have but i just did this for experiance and for something to play with until after i graduate and start working more. well its a 305 bored .030 over with headman LT's melling cam 291dur 447lift advertised stock aluminum intake and q-jet just until i get it broken in and a few other things done. also dot dubble roller time chane timeing will be set 4 deg advanced and i am using premium gastkets and chromeoly rings got 3in flowmaster exhause no cat and upgraded distributer 8.8 plug wires i know it is not alot and im sure ill get flamed but was just curious we were estimateing anywhere from 220-300hp in motor. i repeate this is a temp. motor and learning experiance i have a 350 4bolt main in my shed waiting for machineing and new goodies but that will take time and money for what i want to do with it. well anyway any estimates will be apreciated

 

Might see somewhere around 300 at the flywheel but not even close going to the ground.

Need some specifics on your engine and i can get some numbers from dd2000.

 

well what do u need to know on the motor? i was hoping it would be around that much at crank but i dunno we will see. well for now i will be using stock rockers,q-jet,aluminum intake,crank,rods, and ignition except what i said in last post. and new parts are .030 over flattop pistons longtubes the choromeoly rings and the cam specs are .298 cam lift int/exh valve lift .447 int/exh lobe ctr 110 int 118 exh SAE Duration .291 int/exh @.050 .223 int/exh and im having new 3in mandrel bent pipes put in and cat/smog/ac delete and the 4deg advance timing. i know the stock carb and intake is going to choke it alot but it will be ok until aft i break in the motor and find and good intake and carb setup for my cam. i know the cam is sapost to be the same specs as the cam that was in the 350hp motors in the 60's if that helps any im also swaping out the 2.73 pegleg rear for a 3.08 disc posi 9-bolt for now

 

Any specs on heads? cc & valve sizes.
Running headers or manifold?

And if i could get the brand and model number of any aftermarket pieces you have on the motor it would help alot, Theirs alot of bs to put into dd2000 to get a somewhat accurate reading.

 

Theirs alot of bs to put into dd2000 to get a somewhat accurate reading. [/B][/QUOTE]


As far as I'm concerned,it's all BS if it's got to do with dd2000

 

pretty much but it gives a rough estimate, you might be alot higher or lower

 

well the heads are stock 305 that have had a valve job new valves and been cleaned and resurfaced because they WERE warped. but i am using headman or flowtech long tubes more than likely im goin w/ headman w/ 3in collecters

 

oh and he said he put z-28 valve springs in heads because old ones were worn from old owner taking motor 2 6,500rpm. but he said that they are sapost to be better than the stocks that were in mine i dunno how but anyway

 

I have to get a casting number on those heads and need the valve sizes.

 

ill get them in the morning since im going to start to assemble it i hope ill get crank cam pistons/rods and heads on tomarrow oh and get it painted pontiac blue or YELLOW

 

sorry i havent posted anything on this for awhile but ive been busy on putting motor together and working but ill try to get those numbers sometime soon

 

i've got a similiar setup in my car. go to www.cardomain.com/id/mw66nova and check out the first page for specs.

so far i've netted a best of 13.08 @ 102.72mph at the track on a 1.75 60'

 

that is some awsome times out of a 305 and i would be happy with somewhere close to like how yours run but i am not gona put A LOT of money in this motor as i still have a 350 just waiting. my gears are really gona kill me though for now i have stock non posi 2.73 rear w/ drums on car and i have a 9-bolt borgwarner posi and disc's with 3.08's that i will put in until i can find something better. id like 3.73's or 4.11's w/ posi and disc brakes. im just hoping that this motor will be atleast a lil stronger than y stock lg4 w/ catback and k&n

 

ok sorry it took me so long and i prob will not get response but i just forgot about this thread and been busy but ive got completelt rebuilt 416 heads .030 over flattops the 447 lift 291 adv dur cam headman long tubes 3in exhaust 3.08 posi stock carb and intake for now oh and the heads have been shaved a lil also timing is advanced a lil w/ complete accel ignition set up.

 

Ewww, if you haven't gotten that put together yet, change that cam. Stock heads will hate a single-pattern cam. Look for something like a 210/220 cam for that motor. Maybe a bit smaller like a 204/214 or 208/218 or something along those lines.

 

the cam is sapost to be specs of the cam used in the 60's model motors w/ 350 hp. but i dont plan on keeping heads stock for too long once i get my daily driver back on the road im going to pull the heads back of f my 310 and get them ported and polished and some bigger valves put in

 

i dont have all the specs at hand but off top of head i know its 447/447 lift and 291 adv. duration everything is at a buddys house along w/ the car
and i realy just need to get it outa there b4 winter realy kicks in

 

That cam is crap. Any copy of an old grind or any cam not made by a cam company is crap. Don't use that cam it will not work well in your motor.

 

I'd say a Comp Cams XE256H would be a much better cam for you to use.

Specs are:

Powerband - 1000rpm-5200rpm (will be a bit higher in a smaller motor like a 310ci)

Advertisd - 256* / 268*
@ .050 - 212* / 218*

Valve Lift - .447" / .454" (1.52 rocker ratio)
Lobe Sep. - 110*

Cam part number 12-234-2
Cam grind number XE256H

 

That has to be one of the top 2 or 3 WORST POSSIBLE CAMS you could ever use for anything. It will produce nothing but disappointment.

Don't make the mistake of getting mesmerized by that "375 HP 327" crap. That number is in no way even remotely connected to any kind of HP you can measure. If you built that exact motor, part for part, with the 461 heads and the 151 cam and all that, I'd be VERY surprised if it made 300 HP on an engine stand; and less, in a car.

That ancient POS cam has real long, slow, lazy ramps; consistent with the weak stock springs it was used with. There is NO COMPARISON to a modern cam with somewhat similar "numbers" for example like a Comp XE or Crane Energizer or Lunati Voodoo. Desktop Dyno will lie like a rug, if you give it the "specs" for a 151 cam, and compare it to a modern cam. Not only will it GROSSLY overestimate the HP and torque, but also, the RPM curves will be WAY off.

 

I can vouch for the effectiveness of the Xe256 by Comp Cams. Had one in my old LG4 in my Caprice. Did pretty well paired up with factory provisions.

 

I can vouch for the mid 70s L82 cam that replaced that 350 Horse cam. The L82 is far from new technology but can make impressive power and still be easy on valve springs as well as make good vacuum. The advertised specs on the 350 HP cam are way bigger than the normal SAE method used by the aftermarket. Run the DD2000 simulation off the .050" values(not the most accurate way since it has alot more guessing to do) of 222/222 since the advertised of 342/342 are way off base (going off Comps website).

 

The L82 cam is a pretty decent cam, it worked pretty well in the '73 Z28 my dad used to have. Made lots of power in that 350 (factory L82 with minor upgrades... headers, etc)

I still think you'd be better off with a modern grind though... more power and probably better gas mileage and driveability to boot. Thats the reason I'm replacing the old school GM cam in my 350 to an XE274H. More power, better street manners, and probably no worse gas mileage (not better though, since its still a pretty big cam, lol)

 

well thats what it said but it is a melling cam came with double roller timing set and every thing i need for it for cheap but at this point i dunno what to do because i have it in motor but we havent had it in car yet or comepletely put together yet but i realy need it together asap.

 

i ran a Blue Racer series cam by Crane. .442"/.465" lift and duration @.050 was 214*/224*.

that cam worked INCREDIBLY well in my car that went 13.03 @ 103mph.

 

That cam is a seriously old school grind--I ran it in a 350 a few years back and was EXTREMELY unimpressed with it until I switched from 2.73 rear gears to a 4.56 ratio. With the 2.73 gears and a convertor that would flash to a little higher rpm than a stock unit the car couldn't even break the tires loose from a dead stop. If you choose to run it, be prepared to be underwhelmed until you upgrade to deeper gears. On the plus side, it was a fun, free revving cam once I got a better gear set in the car. That grind also has a very gentle ramp. You won't have to worry about cam failure while running it. Comp's XE line of cams have a much more aggressive ramp--higher lift with a shorter overall duration. One of those will be more enjoyable with your current rear gear, but be sure to be cautious during break-in! By all accounts the XE cams are easy to wipe out if they are improperly broken in.

 

i am planing on a new rear w/ disc breaks i have a 9 bolt w/ 3.08s posi but i think ill sell that one and the stock 10 bolt i have and find a 4th gen rear w/ disc and posi and put a set of 3.73s in. but i dunno i just need this 310 to be running soon dont expect a lot of power but anything is better than my honda and the 218,xxx mile lg4 that was in the ta.

 

Do realize that the 4th gen 10-bolts are no stronger than the 3rd gen ones. If you're going to put new gears in one and rebuild it, you may as well use your 10-bolt.

Also know that 9-bolts didn't get a 3.08 gear. 2.77, 3.27, 3.45, and (aftermarket) 3.70.

 

acctually they did come with the 3.08 but it was a very rare ratio and i have had the cover off and 3.08 is stamped on the side of the ring gear and i have done the math with the ring and pinion gear and it comes to 3.08. well only reason i thought of going to 4th gen rear is cause i want disc brakes and posi but lower gear than 3.08 and have u seen how expensive gear sets for 9-bolt is?

 

are you talking to me or Screamin86? cause while the cam i posted is an old school grind, my 305 with it in it would obliterate the tires to the top of second in my car. of course, i had a much better intake and a nice 10" ati converter that stalls at 2400 and flashed to 4000 as soon as the hammer was dropped, and a 4.10 gear.

 

I have a feeling he wasn't talking to me, hopefully. I can smoke them from a dead stop, most of the way through first, then chirp second good. We are talking 5,300 lbs, a L82 cammed 305, near 50/50 weight distribution, sticky 295/50/R17 tires, 3.73 gears, 700R4 with a L35 S10 2,000 RPM stall (Stalls around 2,400 RPM behind my engine).

I ran a 9.89 in the 1/8 with this combo. The left lane was a stock newer VW beetle with a 2.0 4 cylinder/Automatic.

 

mw66nova and Fast355--I was talking to Screamin86, I wasn't very specific about just what cam I was talking about. The old grind that Screamin86 is going to run will be tons of fun with a decent convertor and steep rear gears, but it won't be much fun with a tight convertor and 2.73 gears. Once I had swapped to 4.56 gears I couldn't hook the car up in first gear at all and could leave a twenty foot scratch when I shifted into second.

I thought I had the hottest thing on the street and was very disappointed when I couldn't do better than 14.6 at the track (although my trap speed was about 99mph, so I still had some serious traction issues).

At any rate, if you already have the cam you may as well give it a try--you may like it a lot.

 

Hmm interesting, hadn't realized there was a 3.08 9-bolt. I thought the 3.08 gears only came in the TBI cars and those never got 9-bolts. Apparently I was wrong, sorry.

I do know how expensive 9-bolts are to rebuild, but that's why I said sell the other 10-bolt and use the money from that to rebuild your 9-bolt. They are stronger than a 10-bolt could ever hope to be without spending even MORE money on the 10-bolt than it'd cost to just fully rebuild the 9-bolt.

 

Oh and I also wanted to comment on the cam. I don't care what the durations show on there in terms of size. Stock heads are not going to be happy with a single-pattern ("symmetrical") grind. For stock 416/081/083 heads, you want at least 6-10* split for best performance because of how poor the exhaust flows on these heads, in stock form. I do think that 222* is still a bit big for a street 305 without gears/converter, but it'll rev like crazy (make sure you build that bottom end right and get it balanced out real well).

 

well 3.73's or 4.11s are what i would like to get put in but i just need it on the road asap but intake and carb and some roller tips will be in soon aft break in also

 

well all the parts in botom end are in real nice shape and arp bolts used thoughout the entire motor so it should hold together real well but im not sure what it will rev to but i figure to 6 or mabey 6500 but i doubt ill take it that fa. only reason im waiting to do intake later is because i am only 17 and go to school and only work limited hours so i have limited funds and i really need it going b4 winter because it has been siting in a buddy of mines driveway since march and him and his wife are spliting up so i just need it to be driveable enough to get it to my house witch is liek 1-1/2 away. well any way what gears would anyone suggest? im thinking 3.73 or 4.11 but id rather go with 3.734 because i will be driving it more than just on cruse nights and at track.

 

any ideas on what power output may be though? im just a lil curious just wanna kinda say i drive something w/ lil more hp than 105hp (honda) or 165hp (old lg4) and will the cam atleast have a good sound and some good top end power?

 

no idea on yours, but get some numbers from the track and we can get a rough estimate.

calculating mine with MPH and weight (103mph, 3270lbs w/ driver) my 305 made roughly 279 RWHP.

 

About 2/3 of what it would be with a decent cam.

I don't think you've really got the point yet.... that cam is TERRIBLE. There aren't many that you could use that would be any worse. GET RID OF IT. You can ask as many times as you want, how much power that combo is going to make; people (including myself) might make all sorts of wild guesses and some might even be close; problem is, to just quote a number in a vacuum like that, doesn't tell you how big of a mistake it is, or what. It's only of value IN COMPARISON to something else. And that comparison is, ALMOST ANY OTHER CAM WILL MAKE BETTER POWER. Maybe not "more" power at the peak, but certainly, MORE POWER ACROSS THE RPM RANGE. And that's really what's important. Imagine the curve of torque vs RPM: what you want, is for the "area under the curve", to be as great as possible, IN THE RPM RANGE THE MOTOR WILL RUN IN. Don't get stars all in your eyes about the "350 HP 327" bit, that "number" is pure blue-sky hallucination. The engine WILL NOT measure that on a dyno.

Worse yet, cams are CHEAP. You don't need a high-dollar roller or something; you need less money than what that cam will WASTE in gasoline, in ONE MONTH or less, compared to a better one. Even the el cheapo MTC-1 or Summit 1102 or Edelbrock 2102 or whatever you want to call it, will outrun that 151 POS, and use 2/3 as much fuel in the process of driving the car. Meanwhile, it will cost you 3 times as much or more in time and trouble and fluids and new lifters and so forth, to undo the mistake after you discover that we were all telling the truth about it.

It's your money, of course; you can do what you like. You don't have to do what anybody here tells you. But you came here looking for advice, and the advice universally is, DUMP THAT CAM. Be a little more practical, don't blue-sky yourself or cheap-out yourself into something you will regret later.

If you need to move the car, call a tow truck. $30 and the "move the car" problem is cured. Speniding hundreds of dollars building a crappy motor that you'll then hate, but have to live anyway with for who knows how long while it bleeds cash from you, is not the best long-term strategy for moving a car a mile and a half (I'm guessing the "1-1/2" is miles, anyway).

 

you can get 325 - 400 from your 305, here are some links

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/modthel03.html

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/290hp305.html

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/343hp305.html

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/thirdgen/400hp305.htm

There is a kit from lunati even. Read up man.

 

i understand im not building a race motor just something to drive and have a lil fu in and i kind of have limited funds i mean i could put the cam that was in it back in. it was aftermarket for as far as me and the guy i bought the motor from know but do you think it would be wise to put unknown cam back into a motor? i mean if it turns out i dont like it or i have probs witch u say i will ill just swap in that old cam or a cheapo summit cam. but like i said i just need to move it w/ motor in it and my honda needs to have crank ground so ill be out of a ride unless i get te ta goin soon so i kinda have limited choices here. and u might be right aboutthe cam and im sure yo are but i dont mind experimenting w/ diff stuff but of now i will need to stay unles u want to pay for one for me!!

 

Just put it back togather with the old 327 cam. It will get you to work and back for the time being. Then later on when you have more $$$ swap out the cam.

 

thats exactly what ive been trying to tell ppl. i got the cma lifters and double roller timing set for $104 new so it wasent a total loss i guess. well what would you guys suggest would be a good cam? i wouldnt mind it to rev a little higher but want it to be driveable and slight bumpy idle. thats all i want is something to drive everyday and mabey have a lil fun in. any helpful and understanding advise will greatley be appreciated. and i do plan on lower gears like 3.73's or 4.11's so what would be good for that too.

 

Comp XE262 will work good

 

I agree. It'd be a great cam.

 

what would be a good intake to match with this cam i was looking at a weiand intake that made power from idle to 7k adn its like $135 how much would that cam run too? is it a kit with lifters?

 

Assuming stock 416 headflow numbers, a Stock 9.2:1 compression, good exhaust with cast iron manfolds, 750 CFM Q-Jet, on a Dual Plane intake, with good tuning.

RPM------HP------TQ
2000----97-----255
2500----129----272
3000----164----287
3500----196----294
4000----222----291
4500----239----279
5000----242----254
5500----231----220
6000----209----183

Now swap your cam for a XE-262H-14

RPM-----HP-----TQ
2000----114---299
2500----147---308
3000----181---317
3500----207---311
4000----223---292
4500----223---260
5000----212---223
5500----189---181
6000----159---139

Now compare that with the Comp Xtreme4x4 X4262H
(The cam that is in my little brothers 1995 Tahoe 350 along with my ported 193s) This cam will flat RUN.
RPM------HP------TQ
2000-----115----301
2500-----148----311
3000-----184----322
3500-----212----317
4000-----230----301
4500-----236----275
5000-----228----239
5500-----208----199
6000-----182----159

 

well since the motoer has been bored .030 over and w/ flat top pistons up the compresion ratio a bit also heads have been shaved quite a bit because of being warped by previous owner and what about with a set of long tube headers?

 

if it makes any diffrence a/c and smog has been deleted

 

where would the "power band" most likely be with this cam? or is that something that i will have to find out myself when i get it runing and do some test runs?