Well i have a early 80s 4 bolt 350 sitting here punched out .040 ready to run. I want to build a 383 out of it but im contemplating if it would be worth it to spend any money on this engine or just go down to GM and order their 383 crate engine.

The GM crate is rated @ 340HP & 435lb torque, Would i be able to get similar or better numbers than that on a buildup without spending the same ammount as the new crate engine would cost?

So basically all i have is a machined block, I would need everything internal. could it be done?

Edit: This all needs to be done on max 91oct gas.

 

Build a 383. I built mine for 1500$, I work at an engine shop though so everything was at cost and I didn't pay for machine work. Only difference in price between the two will be the cost of clearancing the block. Don't buy the GM 383, 340hp just plain sucks. You can do better in your basement. Mine made 430 with a tiny baby cam.

 

What are you trying to do with the car?

 

Would personally never buy a factory crate engine, too much coin for too little output.

The 388 in my sig had $3500 all said and done and ran on 92 octane.

 

Its going to be a street car, with the slight possibility of it seeing the edmonton track once in a blue moon as its a few thousand miles from here.

I would like to do all of the clearancing on the block myself, as the nearest engine shop is also in edmonton and shipping a block isnt very cheap.

So far looking at some rotating assemblys im looking at least $1000 for that and another $1500-$2000 for heads. and that only gets me part way.

BTW im talking in canadian $$$$ as im a canaduck

 

You can get a great set of heads assembled for under 1000(LT1 heads are popular nowadays but require modification, also Dart II's or World's Sportsman heads), and rotating assembly for like about 700-800 (scat rods and crank, speedpro pistons, will handle 600 hp pretty well). If you are up to the task of assembly, and are willing to port your own heads, you can build a real monster for dirt cheap.

 

I found a few places selling the RHS/Pro Topline heads. There is even a guy on ebay who sells them under AMS racing. I e-mailed him about prices and said this.

Here are the out of the box 180cc version in CHP.



http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar...48_0402_small/


They still sell the lightning aluminum versions as well that flow pretty darn good. Those flow numbers from CHP are also old since now the heads are under RHS they have been redesigned according to an e-mail I got from Engine Quest.

 

So whats the difference betweena purpose built 383 crank and a 400 crank? just bearing sizes or something?

 

The 400 crank has larger main journals, they'd have to be turned down to fit a 350 block. Practically nobody does this anymore when medium journal 383 cranks are readily available.

 

OK thanks,

Which rods should i use on this thing?

Would OEM's be fine or is their something that will give me more clearance for a descent price?

Im thinking i should save up for forged parts to give me a bit more peace of mind if i decide to throw a blower on it one day.

 

If you use a stock rod with a large cam, you could end up having the rod bolts hitting the cam lobes. A small base circle cam would help avoid this.

The Eagle ESP H-beam rods with cap screws give plenty of clearance around the cam, but they'll require a lot more grinding around the pan rails and maybe even the bottom of the cylinders.

 

This has probably been asked a million times but is their any canadian sites i can get some of this stuff from??

After exchange rate and border fees it really kills to order from the US

 

Ok well just want to get your opinions on this setup...

Eagle cast rotating assy, .040, -18cc--- $909.99
Jegs 64cc Alum heads-------------------- $1189.95pair
Comp Cams XE274H Cam Kit------------- $175.99
Comp Cams Pushrods, 7.794"------------ $29.99
Comp Cams 1.5 Roller rockers----------- $195.99
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap--------------------- $203.99
Holley street avenger 770cfm------------ $364.99
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total $3070.89+ shipping & border...
$3576.21ca + At least $300 for ship and border..

It just doesnt seem worth it to build it, for the same price i can get a semi-gutless GM crate 383.

 

Something that could be worth your while looking into might be to simply invest in a set of heads right now, and later build the 383, after you've rebounded from the expense of the heads.
If your 350 has flattop pistons, you can buy a nice set of heads that will give you the CR you want. Then when you do up the 383, get some dished pistons for that, so your CR will be the same.
You could invest in a hyd roller cam and all the related valve gear as well. All of which could be re used when it's time for your new block, if you do your homework.

 

At the moment the "new" 350 4 bolt block has some -10cc dished pisons in it so i should be able to grab the 64cc aluminum heads and be fine as i run 91oct anyways. Maybe i will do that but i dont really want to be pulling the motor every few months lol

If i can keep a motor in my sled for more than a few weeks this winter i will be slowly buying the parts for a winter project.

 

Yes, several.

 

such as...

 

Mopac, Best Buy Performance, Canadian High Performance, JBs Power Center, Keystone Automotive...

 

Ok thanks, None of them list much if anything on their websites so i guess ill make up a list and email them for prices.


hopefully i can get this beast built this winter!

 

you have the passcode for keystone....

canadian hi perf has a fair bit of stuff, and it's in prince george I think, in the grand scheme of things, pretty close to you.... (well, close-est I guess...)

don't want my mega high perf 993 heads eh?

 

Edmonton is a few hours closer, but neither really makes for a quick trip to the store.

 

I think ill be going with aluminums to keep the detonation devil away

Edmonton is still a 13 hour drive, 10 if you have it to the floor the whole way

I would probably get stuff out of edmonton to keep the freight charges reasonable.

As for keystone, Most of their prices are outrageous and uhhh me and CT no longer get along too well so thats out of the question. My money = better spent other shops than canadian tire.

 

Well your motor comes out cheaper than a crate motor and you upgraded to aluminum heads, and roller rockers. I say it's a pretty good deal. Replace your alm. heads with vortecs, and get a budget cast bottom end, along with stamped rocker arms and you'll save near a grand and with the right cam make more 100 more HP than the GM crate motor. The crate motor comes with a cam thats small even for a stock 305, there are alot better options out there IMHO.

 

actually by the time i add up everything i spend on this motor i could probably buy a crate 383 and upgrade it a bit

BTW complete crate 383 $4500ca from dealership...

Would i be better off with cast vortecs?
Plain old vortecs or bow tie?

 

Try getting the shop or someone you know in Edmonton to send your stuff up on Greyhound.

 

is there not a single machine shop in your hometown? I don't know yellowknife too well... (uhh, at all...)
but an engine shop/rebuilder should be able to get you anything you need...
hmm, I thought c-tire had pretty good prices, i'll have to peek at other shops then....

 

Not a single engine shop up here

As for the CT prices, most arent too bad but some stuff is just completely off the wall, and thats usually what i want

 

so...

Big old iron vortecs sound good to anyone?

 

the idea ive been tossing around (while i save up for a build) is porting some stock vortecs. ive heard some awesome results from several guys about the vortecs. most people ive talked to about my semi-budget 383 build say that the vortecs will do fine. i just gotta find a a cheap pair somewhere. good luck on this build!!!

 

well the vortecs are around $700 for the pair and some aluminums are around $1300

I think ill just try and save up for the aluminums as their is the possibility of this motor seeing a blower and aluminums supposed to be better for blown motors from what i have heard.

I can see this is going to be a pricey build already but hopefully i will come out of this with a real mean engine.

 

the blower and crank really kick up the price eh?

I've heard that aluminum heads are more prone to cracking.... just to add fuel to the fire...

planning to use dished pistons? like a really dismally low CR?


Is that $1300 for stock aluminum vortec heads there? is that like bare, stripped off a truck head sorta thing or something?

would it be cheaper if your dad or someone else brought some up for you from AB? I mean you could call up some wreckers near him and get him to pick them up for ya. If it'd save ya $400 it might be worth the hassle, that price just sounds rather high for used heads from a wreckers . (if that was the plan)

 

The 700 was for a pair of complete iron vortecs and the 1300 was for some jegs heads or something, the aluminums seem for the most part to be priced in that range.

Yes im looking to go with dished pistons and fairly large cc heads. i want to put on a 6-71 blower which is supposed to make a minimum 10psi on a 350.

 

If your gonna spend 1300$, no reason to limit yourself to vortecs. I'd look into AFR heads, something in the 195 -200 cc range. Their pretty much the best head out there right now.

 

Well i didnt want to spend that much on heads but if their going to be alot better for my application a may as well save up.

 

with a combo like that, you're bound to make 500HP or so, just remember the rest of the drivetrain... (and the axles go *snap!*)

 

I know for sure my drivetrain is going to die

The TH-350 will cushon my diff for a while but it will blow soon enough. i was thinking of building up a 700R4 but might just grab a TH-400. Not sure what im going to do with the rear end yet, for a short term cheapo solution to my open end diff i think ill get a spool.

 

Spools suck on the street. You can easily loose control in corners.

 

sounds like fun


Well after i dump some ungodly ammount of money into my motor it will be a while before i can put a good ammount of money into the rest of the drivetrain.

 

What are basing this on? How come you never see AFR's on any "race car" at the track? Yeah they're a good head for a mild street or bracket car but far from the best out there.

You ought to give the Vortecs more credit, we've made 476hp with them on a 383.

 

And AFR's have some of the best flow numbers out there, they routinly out flow vortecs by 30-50 cfm. Flow numbers aren't everything, I have a whole stack of magazines where they put down ungodly numbers, that are up there with LS1's. Go to AFR's website and look at their links to magazine test. There is something about a company that lets their product do the talking that I like. I see AFR's on race cars all the time, but I see them on street cars more often. AFR concentrates on getting the most flow from the smallest port, this builds big flat torque curves that move heavy street cars.

 

dialed in, what are some of the heads you see on race cars?
just curious, i've never looked...

 

Well, I guess I'm a racer and think I've been to enough tracks and raced enough events over the years to good idea about who's running what, why they run what they run, and how what they have performs.

In a nutshell, AFR is a little more expensive than the most commonly overly advertised Dart heads which the greatest percentage of racers weather small blocks or big blocks tend to run-reasoning is 2 fold. 1 reason is the people that race are on budgets-very few have unlimited incomes that afford the best of the best, I'm willing to say 90% of racers are on fixed incomes trying to get the best they can within their budget and Darts/Brodix typically fit that need. 2 is availability, Dart/Brodix have multiple machines that crank out heads/intakes at a pretty good rate...AFR has one mahince that needs to be retooled per head, so they'll run a line of sbc heads, then a line a bbc heads, etc...many racers I've spoken with have truly wanted to run AFR but the lead time is pretty bad with typical wait on heads being 4-6 months after order is placed....I found mine used on ebay so got a great deal on them.

AFR is also a company that does not inflate their numbers, when I got my heads I dropped them off at the shop and had them gone through to make sure my ebay deal was a good deal...flow numbers were exactly what AFR claims. Dart and Brodix overrate their heads when talking out of the box flow numbers, I've seen countless flow sheets in magazines and on the net as well as their websites, and I've also seen actual Dart/Brody head flow sheets from the same shop that did my heads....they did not come close to what is advertised..but once worked over they "can" produce flow numbers as advertised....but again you fall into the budget crunch. Spend the few hundred extra for AFR's that flow what they claim, bolt the heads on and go-or buy the Dart/Brodix heads for a few hundred less, then take them to a shop and have them worked over spending the few hundred you saved initally to have them opened up to flow as claimed....nothing is free when it comes to horsepower-so what is a great deal initally will eventually cost you the same as doing it right the first time

 

Well i would like to see these front tires come up off the ground on launch

i would hate to pay to ship the cheaper heads up here then back down south to have them worked over i think im best to get the AFRs. By the time all the shipping costs come in it definately would have been cheaper to get the AFRs and be done with it.

Damn, i can see the black hole opening up now trying to get my wallet

 

Having an engine assembled in Edmonton and shipped up truck freight will probably be cheaper than paying for shipping on each individual part.

 

First off I wasn't knocking AFR's. I've got them on my car. Not a bad head I just think a lot of the people on these forums talk them up too much.

I certainly hope they outflow a GM head like a Vortec!

As for other heads, most of the local sportsman racers around here are running Brodix casting. We do a lot of work with the Brodys and a little with some of Darts castings and I don't pay any attention to advertised flow, only what I see on our flowbench and engine dyno. Peak numbers are nice for bragging rights but we all know that it's all about the curve.

 

Then i would have to pay to ship my new block down to edmonton to have it all put together and pay whatever outrageous price a shop down there would want then pay to ship the complete engine back up here.

Its a loose loose situation no matter what i do its going to cost me an arm and a leg and maybe some foreskin.

 

Don't ship your block down, buy a core from them. If you have to use your parts, you can ship up to 100 lbs by Greyhound for $97.

 

Buying another new block would be even worse, i already have a new one sitting here so i would hate to buy 2 new blocks and have one lay around.

 

If buying a new block is cheaper in the long run then is it worth spending the extra money just so that you can use the block you've already got?

 

How is it cheaper?!?!

I either pay to ship this block down or pay a bit more and get another new block and ship it up...

So if i get another block i will have a new one sitting here for no good reason, in that case i would loose out on what i payed for this block.

Damn i should just go hijack the l382g hercules and fly it down there and load up a bunch of stuff