87 Caprice, 305 carb.

zero emmisions equip.
holley mech. secondary 600
vaccum advance HEI
Performer intake.


plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and timing chain are new.
Timing IS set correctly, checked a million times..
Starting fluid doesn't do anything.
I have spark.

Ignition module has been tested, it's fine. Coil, I honestly don't know.

The old timing chain had alot of slack, but not a whole lot.

I've run out of ideas here, it should start no problem, there's just no reason for it not too.

No, still haven't done a compression check. The damn thiing should still start even if I had a dead cylinder.

 

Could be the fuel pump or the fuel filter stucked. BTW you cant really check the timing if the engine is not running.
Any chance it is installed rotated 180°(spark on #6 instead of #1)?

 

Timing is correct, I brought it up to TDC when I did the chain, installed the dist and went froom there.

I have fuel.

I have air, compression, fuel, ignition, everything to start the car, it just won't start.

 

Hi there,
We need more clues to figure out what the problem is. When u try to start the car do u get backfiring out of the carb? Does the engine try to run for a few seconds & then die? When u check for spark do u lay the wire with a spark plug attached to a ground & actually see a spark jump the gap? IS the battery & starter operating at full capacity? When trying to start does the motor spin really fast (like there are no spark plugs in the holes) Or does it really drag (like u have some very serious compression)? While cranking the car try disconnecting the fuel line to make sure u have fuel making it to the carb. If u can answer these Questions I think that I can figure out whats wrong & get u up & running.
njdaewoo

------------------
86 Tramaro 90% Trans Am/ 10% IROC/Z (nose, hood,& fenders)
Trans Am Mods as of 1/10/01
3inch
T.E.S/Flowmaster setup,gutted cat,gutted maf,relocated mat,373 gears,upgraded factory chip,255 lph walpro f/pump & throttle body coolant bypass
njdaewoo@excite.com
New mods as of 6/10/01:
383sb engine
Comp Cam Xteme XR264hr-12
smog pump by-pass

 

check your icq, what happened to the tech board on your site, i hear the moderator over there was pretty sharp. good luck mac

------------------
ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

Did you try pouring a little gas in the carb.
If that don't fire it than it has to be out of time or major internal problems

 

Ed, do you mean both dots on the gears all the way up, and not facing each other?

 

they should both be straight up , not facing eachother.

 

Pull the #1 spark plug out. Have a buddy crank the engine over (coil wire out and away from any fuel source) while you stick your finger in the hole.

Feel the compression?

Now spin the starter again and when you feel the compression start to build, STOP, and pull the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing.

Near #1 or nearer #6 plug wire?

If the rotor is nearer #1 (actually should be almost there), then you are timed about right.

If it is nearer #6, then there is your answer.

If nearer #6, just make that terminal your #1 plug wire and re-wire from there.
jms

 

I know what I did.

When I installed the timing set, I had #1 on TDC, and both dots on the crank and cam gears poiting at each other, as close together as they get to clarify.

Apparently, I was on the wrong stroke, and the cam dot should be all the way up, same with the crank gear.

In essence, the timing is 180* out. So, tomorrow, I *should* be able to just turn the rotor (after I break off a section for the alignment nub) the other way around, and it'll fire up. I may yank the distributor and do it the right way, but I'm so tired of screwing with it, I probably won't. Spent 8 hours doing the timing chain, have to basically drop the oil pan to get the timing cover on. ugh..

I'll do a compression check if it doesn't run. I haven't removed the passenger side AIR lines yet, so those plugs are a MAJOR PITA.

 

I had a similar problem this summer with my camaro. I had had a bad pickup coil so when I went to drop the distributor back in, I lined it up with harmonic balancer like everybody said. Problem was my balancer was off about 90*. I finally did it by sticking a straw down the cylinder and feeling it come to TDC on the compression stroke(which as already mentioned you can feel with a finger). That got it started but I still had to replace a lot of other parts to make it run right .

A couple of questions. Does it do ANYthing when you try to start, or just spin?

Are your plugs fouled from gas being pumped down there and never firing?(if that can't happen with a carb, disregard that but that was one of my problems)

That's all I can think of but I'll bet if you can give us some more info, somebody will get it solved for you. later. ~Arnold

 

Wait- what kind of timing are we talking about? Have you got the rotor pointing to the #1 cyl cap terminal when the #1 piston is at TDC? Spin the distributor cap so the rotor's between #1 and #8, then try starting the engine. Sounds like you're trying to start the motor with 0 advance. Throw some advance in there and maybe you'll get an explosion! Just don't twist the cap so the rotor's between #1 and #2...


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

I'll admit it's been a few years since I built a motor but I've ALWAYS lined the timing marks on the cam/crank gear facing each other I don't think that's your problem as I'm sure if you had it that far off you'd probably have a few valves hitting a few pistons

 

I don't undestand all these posts but I'll go through time chain install ,, the cam gear can only go on one way the arrow on the top gear should face the arrow on the bottom gear this sets up the engine to fire number 6 if you don't rotate the crank, set the distributor to fire number 6 with a few degrees advance and start the engine,simple as that.

 

The cam and crank gear sprockets ALWAYS face each other, ie, as close as they can get to each other, crank gear dot on top, cam gear dot on the bottom... You should line them up this way.

Now, there are TWO top dead centers for the number one (1) cylinder, top of exhaust stroke AND top of compression stroke. You need to align the dots when the cylinder is at the top of the COMPRESSION stroke for the above method to work. Ie, the intake valve will be closed/closing when the piston in (1) is going up. The WRONG way, theexhaust valve will be open and starting to close and you will see the intake open near the top of the stroke.

To Fix it: the easy way is to just lift and flip the distributor 180 degrees., which may not be possible with firewall and vac diaphragm clearance issues. Just make sure that the cylinder is approaching true top dead center of the COMPRESSION stroke and the look at the distributor rotor to make sure it is pointing close to the number (1) spark plug wire terminal on the distributor cap, actually a bit counterclockwise of it.

 

Ok before you go ballistic on your caprice.
Pull a plug wire crank it over and check for spark. Just lay the plug wire where it can spark against metal. If you have spark we can eliminate ignition problems. The way you describe setting the timing chain is correct. The crank gear's dot should face the cam gears dot, cam dot facing down and crank facing up. If you did this then your setup correctly. Is it possible you flooded the car trying to start it? If your plugs are wet the car isnt going to start. The distributor as mentioned can only go in two ways, the correct way or 180* out, if the mark on the ballancer is anywhere near the timing tab and the rotor is pointing in the general direction of No.1 then you have a spark issue, could be coil could be fouled plugs.
Good Luck!
SSC

 

WTF?!?!

 

The dot on the crank sprocket should be at the TOP, the dot on the camshaft sprocket should be at the bottom. The dots should be "facing" each other and will be about 3/4 (0.75") an inch away from each other AT THE TOP OF THE #1 cylinder's COMPRESSION STROKE!!!

If the marks are aligned the "wrong way" as in both at the top, just rotate the crank 360 degrees and VIOLA, the marks will line up!!! Now, set the distributor so that the rotor is facing the #1 wire on the cap and try to start it. You may just be off 180deg on the distributor, barring any other catastrophic engine system failure, such as ignition.

 

Fast, you're 180* off. (I don't like correcting poeple generally, but this makes a HUGH difference if not done correctly).

If the timing marks on the sprockets are facing each other (meaning the mark on the CRANK gear is at the TOP and the mark on the CAM gear is at the BOTTOM), then you are at TDC for compression on the #6 cylinder, NOT #1. When the timing marks are BOTH at the TOP, you are at TDC for compression on #1 cylinder.

When you are installing your timing chain assy, it doesn't matter if you install the marks both at top or right across from each other. HOWEVER, when you drop the dist. in, this is when it matters. If you are pointing the rotor to #1 tower on the cap, you MUST have timing mark on the cam gear at the top. (If you have it on the bottom, then you have to drop the dist. in while the rotor is pointing to #6 tower on the cap).

Mike.....