ok so im set on the xe274, is the xe284 too big?

 

haha, doesn't sound like you're "set"...

I think, with 1.6 rockers, the 284 would be too big. This is more of a road car, then a strip car right?
I think the 274, 1.6 rockers, decent aftermarket heads, with headers, will put you in your power goal area.

What about a solid cam? Hate to throw more options at you at the last minute, but you could have roller power for flat tappet price. A BTE stud girdle (IHI has one), is $59 US, that's dirt cheap, and helps maintain your adjustments for a lot longer. Solid lifters are barely more then normal ones. A solid cam is only a bit more $ then a regular one. You'd have a wider power band too. Just a thought.

 

ok i got a camshaft

 

ok im getting ready to take the camshaft out, i got the rad out, everything right down to the block, and i also purchased a crank socket so i can turn the motor without the balancer on.

my question is, is it easier to take out the old cam wit the dots 12 and 6 right, cant i move the piston to TDC on #6 firing, change the camshaft, so when the cam goes back in its on 12 and 6, then turn the motor over 360 degrees so that the cam is 12 and 12, and the piston is TDC #!??

also do i have to prime the oiling system? im not putting a new one in, just replace the camshaft.

 

It doesn't matter. The crank turning tool makes it easy to rotate the motor. When you have the timing chain off you will have to turn the cam anyways to get it out past the cam bearings. So lining it up before you remove it would be a wasted step. Same goes for when you put the new one back in. You will need to turn it as you slide it in. Once it is in than you can rotate it so that it meshes with the cam sproket in its correct location.

So put the new cam in and allign the dot on the cam sproket at 6 o'clock and the crank sproket dot at 12 oclock. Then just rotate the cam so that you can slide the dowel pin through the sproket making sure to keeping the 12 and 6 allignment (of the sprokets). From there you can then rotate the motor so that you are at 12 and 12.


It is not necessary unless the motor has been sitting for a long time. However, if you did not keep your lifters soaked in oil (after you pulled them) it may be a good idea. I do it everytime just so that all my lifters and pushrods are primed.

 

Your bigest problem is that he cam you want to install needs a high stall converter. 3500 stall is best for that cam. If you have a stock torque converter leave the cam you have in there now untill you can get a high stall converter.
You won;t be happy with a Comp Xe274 with a stock converter either.
Al thou a cam like a comp extreme hase a little more valve action then the edelbrock or summit cams mentioned it still need a higher than stock stall converter as it will make much less torque at 2000rpm than the4 cam you have now. You Edelbrock cam will work well and deliver as advertized if you match it with the proper converter stall. you already have the right rear gearing.
3500+ styall converter for th700r4 trans are not cheap. Its a 9.5" converter.
You do not want a modified 12". its not enough. Phone API Transmissions in Mississauga. Or look into a ATI converter for a th700r4.

reguardless of who makes the cam shaft and how old the lobe design is Yada yada if the duration is more than 230 @.050" you will want a high stall.

If you just got to stick wit6h the stock converter limit your .050" duration to 222 or less.
Crane cams # 113801 (HMV 278-2) works well with a stock converter and will make more power than the one you have now without being "too much".
This is the cam i recomend if you want a "better cam" than the .454" one you have now. Its also very NOS friendly.

if you want to try the Edelbrock RPM cam you will need to modify the advance curve in your distributor. A big cam wants and needs much more intial timing at idle like 24deg at idle. but the same 34-36 at high rpm.
your distributor likeley has 20 to 24deg of mechanical advance. You need to limit the travel of the mechanical advance from 20-24 to about 10-12 deg which will allow 24deg BTC @ idle (750rpm) and 34-36 total at rpm. 3500+rpm
This will minimise most of the Evils of a big cammed motor and make it responsive, instead of lazy. ( a comp XE274 will want this distributor mod as well.) Don;t want to get into the hows and whys now just do it. the car will not idle correctly without this mod. You will want a converter thou. remember not a cheapy modded restalled 12". You want a 9.5" high stall lock up.

http://www.api-racing.com/ They are in Mississauga

http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/ They are not in Mississauga but build a hell of a converter. ( ya get what ya pay for)

http://www.competitiontransmission.com/ They are in Tonawanda NY and build a hell of a converter too. Worth the ride to Niagara Falls if you're serious about gonig fast.

The Crane HMV278-2 cam will also be very happy with a 3000-3500stall but is "ok" with a stock converter. This is a nice "street cam"

Do you have MSD 6 ignition box? or simular CD ignition box?

What ever you end up doing with the cam shaft be sure to lock-tight the three cam bolts. Sucks when they come loose.

I highly recommend you check and verify valve spring coil bind at full valve lift (with .050"minimum clearance). If your heads have the 1.25" diameter springs, it will be close. The possible coil bind issue will be on the exhaust side. if any.

 

the motor hasnt been sitting that long. the motor will have a converter real soon, but the transmission is on the fritz so that is going to be changed within the next month or so.

i just wanted to get the motor over with, then move onto the tranny so im done, i will put in a 3000-3500 stall.

i know some about the distributor, but confused about mechanical advance. i know how to set the timing, and the advanced. i dont have an ignition like msd or anything, just a pro comp distributor with 7500rpm module and 50k coil.

 

On a procomp or any other HEI you need to shorten the slot that the advance pin rides in to limit the pins travel. Weld up one end of the slot and grind it smooth. This requires removal and dissassembley. You need to eliminate 1/2 the available pin travel in the slot.

 

f-bird, since there is two weights and two springs, is there two slots? do you need to do them both then?
I'm thinking i'll have to do this to mine soon.

 

well im gonna go at the installation of the camshaft tomorrow morning, i purchase some coolant new oil, thread sealant, rtv sealer and a timing chain cover gasket, my new cover didnt come with one

wish me luck lol

 

No just one slot and one pin. Pull apart your distributor and you'll see how it all works.
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You will have a lot of valve lift on the exhaust side with the edelbrock cam and 1.6 rockers. Best slow down and check for valve spring interference before you fire it up or yu may well be looking at a bunch of bent and smashed parts.
Whats the hurry? It may well snow next week.

 

how do i check for valve spring interference?

 

well i got the new cam in guys, alot easier then i thought, and relieved.

here is a pic with the new cam in, and timing chain on, at #1 TDC the cam went 12 and 6, then i used my crank socket, and turn it so it was 12 and 12, and it turned out to be #1 TDC again. this means distributor points to #1 right not #6 since i changed it.

 

Start it up and rev the **** out of it. That crunching sound is the sound of pushrods and rocker studs bending.
Just kidding...... Don't try this at home.....
After adjusting the valves on one cylinder
Like #1. *properly* turn the crank till an exhaust valve is at full lift. You should be able to slip a .060" feeler guage between most of the valve spring coils.
(You're supposed to do it using a mechanical lifter as a hyd lifter can/will bleed down when its just sitting there at full lift.) If this happens you'll have to temperairly adjust the lifter so that the internal plunger is fully depressed at "0 lash"
If you cannot fit the .060" feeler guage in between the spring coils at full valve lift, change the rockers on the exhaust side to 1.5's. ( to reduce the open lift spec). The intake side should be ok. What is the outside diameter of the valve springs on your cylinder heads? 1.26" or 1.44" If you have the small 1.26" springs you may have an issue. If you have the larger 1.44" springs they are usually good to .550" lift. this needs to be checked. If in doubt remove a spring and measure installed height and coil bind clearance while compressed to the maximum valve lift spec from the closed seat installed height. You need .060" extra clearance cause things tend to bounce around at high rpm. When the spring stacks up solid at high rpm it gets $$$$ugly$$$.

If its not going to work for ya do not start the engine. A new camshaft is cheap but broken valvetrain parts are expensive. If the lift is just too high for your springs I know of a great Isky cam with .450" lift (.480" with 1.6 rockers) that will spank that Edelbrock cam all day and not break parts.
Isky Cam #201278. There is a work around solution for every thing. But don;t be impatient at start it without checking this important spring clearance.

 

alright, it shows

Valve Spring Diameter: 1.45"
Vale Spring Installed Height: 1.800"
Valve SPring Seat Pressure: 120lbs
Max Valve Lift: 0.575"

so im ok right

 

*Should be.* Do the check at full lift with the feeler gauge yourself. Do not assume anything. You are the engine builder. its up to yu to verify the parts fit, not me or Edelbrock.

 

ok thanks. when i put in the lifters, do i need to coat the whole lifter in whole or just the bottom where it goes on the cam lobe.

edelbrock recommends i just put cam lube on the bottom of it where it contacts the cam

 

Cam lube "snake oil" "moly disulfide grease" can stop a lifter from spinning in its bore. (its pretty sticky and thick) A lifter must spin in its bore while the motor is running. You want to liberally coat the lifter bottom with moly lube and lots of plain old engine oil on the sides and in the lifter bore. Coat all the lobes of the camshaft with moly lube but put engine oil on the cam bearing journals. Don't forget the put lots of oil on the rocker ***** and pushrod seats of the rockers.

I strongly recomend dumping a can of GM EOS in the motor before start up.
Its about $7 At any GM dealer and is great for cam breakin and as a general oil enhancer for any engine using a flat tappet cam. It has great anti scuff ingrediants that actualy work, unlike some stuff you see on late night TV.
This is the only engine oil additive you'll ever need. You cannot get it at CTC.
Just GM dealers.

 

ill look into it, i was not told to put oil on the cam bearing journals, the camshaft is already in the motor, but is coated with cam lube.

i have the lifters soaking in oil right now, and i will put oil in the bores so it can spin freely.

i will also get a can of that stuff at the GM dealer. GM EOS? they will know what im talking about?

 

YUP

 

man what a PAIN IN THE *** trying to get the timing cover back on, i even tried to shave down some of the seal that goes on the cover to slide in and coat it with rtv sealer, but no. i tried to drop the oil pan, but 3 bolts on the driver side are fubar'd they are against the lip on the oil pan and i cant get a socket on it.

is there any other way to get the timing cover on, or do i have to keep trying

 

You need to remove the front few rows of oil pan bolts. Then trim the metal channel on the bottom of the timing cover at the corners. Other wise you'll be fighting with it all day and bend the cover. use a hammer chisel to work the oil pan gasket flange edge away from the oil pan bolts till you can get a socket on them. You cannot get the cover on with all the bolts in the oil pan.

 

hey thanks for the hlpe, i fought with it today, removed all bolts except 1 on the driver, and 3 on the passenger, but 2 of them were loosened. i got 2 flat head screw drivers on either side, and sure enough the timing cover slid right in. i screwed in the timing cover, then took out the screw drivers, i got all the bolts in, but i cant seem to get the first 2 in, i think the timing cover sits down too far, im gonna try and get a piece of ply wood to sit on my floor jack, and try and jack up the oil pan to see if it squeezes up, and maybe get the other 2 boltsin, i loaded the rtv sealent down there.

i found out while i was dropping in the pushrods one is bent!!, would this cause a ticking sound before i took the motor apart?

 

Yes it would. Inspect all the push rods by rolling them on a piece of glass plate.
Replace any bent ones. Inspect and prelube (oil) all the rockers and ***** too.

 

hey thanks, i got a new set of pushrods, and the rockers are new so ill just oil then and the trunions?(middle part)

thanks alot, ill check back if i run into more problems.

 

And how come every story just ends like this one? Havent you started your engine yet or what? It would be nice if every1 could return and say "thank you all for the help, the engine runs very nice and I just came back from the dyno and I had xxx hp, etc ,etc"

 

i said thanks, and thanks alot. if you those words are not in your vocabulary and you cant make them out i just wrote them down for you. the motor i put together myself ran fine and got a 12.4 @ 110mph in the 1/4 mile. i never did any dyno with it, but the end of the summer i let my friend drive it and he bent 2 pushrods so i tore it down sold it. bought a monte carlo and built a blown 489 stroker.