boring out 305
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
boring out 305
okay you can probably tell that i don't know much about this
i'm in the process of buying an 86 z28 with the 700r4 and the 305 in it no it's not an ho
so anyways i'm planning on doing some engine mods and boring it out is my main goal but wht's the max that i can bore it to?
and what would be the best components to use as far as cam and intake and carb go?
i'm in the process of buying an 86 z28 with the 700r4 and the 305 in it no it's not an ho
so anyways i'm planning on doing some engine mods and boring it out is my main goal but wht's the max that i can bore it to?
and what would be the best components to use as far as cam and intake and carb go?
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
oh yeah i can't forget pistons and bearings and heads and the whole 9 yards?
expensive?
sounds like it
expensive?
sounds like it
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
i believe .060 is the max you can bore it out before you hit the water jackets, im not positive on this hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in soon.
i plan to bore mine out to .030 because i dont like the idea of thin cylinder walls. that and a stroker kit and i can start doing
's!
i plan to bore mine out to .030 because i dont like the idea of thin cylinder walls. that and a stroker kit and i can start doing
's! 
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
The maximum about you can bore depends on the thickness of the cylinder walls, which can vary with core shift. Any more than .060 and off-the-shelf pistons start to get hard to find anyway.
Why do you want to bore it to the limit anyway? You only need to bore it enough to clean up the cylinder walls.
Why do you want to bore it to the limit anyway? You only need to bore it enough to clean up the cylinder walls.
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
i had thought about doing a stroker but i have to do the interior onthis car too and i'm only gonna have like 3k to spend this summer if i save everything
i'm still in high school and next year will be my senior year so i have to finish this car asap
although i will have next summer too
i'm still in high school and next year will be my senior year so i have to finish this car asap
although i will have next summer too
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
yeaa i know what that feels like, im a junior in highschool and im trying to save up for insurance, the left over is going toward redoing the engine.
i say screw the interior make it fast then pretty!!
i say screw the interior make it fast then pretty!!
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
Originally posted by gp423
yeaa i know what that feels like, im a junior in highschool and im trying to save up for insurance, the left over is going toward redoing the engine.
i say screw the interior make it fast then pretty!!
yeaa i know what that feels like, im a junior in highschool and im trying to save up for insurance, the left over is going toward redoing the engine.
i say screw the interior make it fast then pretty!!
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the interior is pretty much completely stripped
but the guy is giving me a complete set of black velour seats that were taken out of a totaled third gen at 20k miles
not even worn!
and whatever interior pieces you see in the car including the consol and the sunroof
good deal for $650?
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
Originally posted by Apeiron
The maximum about you can bore depends on the thickness of the cylinder walls, which can vary with core shift. Any more than .060 and off-the-shelf pistons start to get hard to find anyway.
Why do you want to bore it to the limit anyway? You only need to bore it enough to clean up the cylinder walls.
The maximum about you can bore depends on the thickness of the cylinder walls, which can vary with core shift. Any more than .060 and off-the-shelf pistons start to get hard to find anyway.
Why do you want to bore it to the limit anyway? You only need to bore it enough to clean up the cylinder walls.
i just want to get the most for my money out of the 305 without having to swap the engine
if it was bored to .060 over what would the new displacement be?
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From: New Jersey
Car: 86 Corvette, 89 IROC, 1999 TA
Engine: 350, 350, LS1
Transmission: 700r4, 700r4, T-56
Axle/Gears: 3.07, 373, 4.10
not enough to justify spending all the money on machine work, the small amount of cubes gained by boring a block is insignificant at best. The only reason to bore a block out is to clean up the cylinder walls if they need it. It is by no means a way to increase displacement or proformance. When boring a block you never want to go to the max it can handle, only as much is absolutely nessicary, thin cylinder walls are never a good idea. If you really wanted more displacement it would probably be more cost effective to find a 350 or 400 block already assembled and ready to go as opposed to buying all the parts and paying someone to machine and assemble it.
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From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by johnnyboy
...i just want to get the most for my money out of the 305 without having to swap the engine ...
...i just want to get the most for my money out of the 305 without having to swap the engine ...
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From: Ohio, near columbus
Car: 89 iroc-z
Engine: 305tpi
Transmission: wc-t5
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.08 posi (4 now)
310.... It's pretty much useless to bore a motor for no reason.
Check out my cardomain page in my signature and read the page with my new engine i'm building. It will be less than 2k and make more than enough power for a novice driver such as myself (17).
Your 2 biggest points are heads and cam.....
Induction plays a big part in what you go with in terms of cams and anything nonstock pretty much.
If you go carb'd and feel like making a screamer 305, buy vortec l31 iron heads, buy an arp bolt kit from the pan up go with the powerhouse stroker kit and buy a balanced kit with all the needed parts and make sure you won't need a smaller base circle cam in the stroker application before you buy the cam. Use a good dual plan manifold (performer rpm or weiand stealth or something close and put a xe262h10 cam in it.)
The stroker kit would come with a 400 sbc crank which will raise your cubes to 335 or so i beleive. A cast crank and cast rods would be fine but, if you plan to rev it out to 6k or so you're not going to want to be using stock bolts. The heads will need the rocker studs pinned or buy screw in studs, you'll need headeres 1 3/4 primarys would be good.
Definetly research more, everyone i go to school with comes up with these sorta ideas on making power (no offense meant seriously) and i've found none of them know anything about a motor other than exactly how it spins and reciprocates.
Check out my cardomain page in my signature and read the page with my new engine i'm building. It will be less than 2k and make more than enough power for a novice driver such as myself (17).
Your 2 biggest points are heads and cam.....
Induction plays a big part in what you go with in terms of cams and anything nonstock pretty much.
If you go carb'd and feel like making a screamer 305, buy vortec l31 iron heads, buy an arp bolt kit from the pan up go with the powerhouse stroker kit and buy a balanced kit with all the needed parts and make sure you won't need a smaller base circle cam in the stroker application before you buy the cam. Use a good dual plan manifold (performer rpm or weiand stealth or something close and put a xe262h10 cam in it.)
The stroker kit would come with a 400 sbc crank which will raise your cubes to 335 or so i beleive. A cast crank and cast rods would be fine but, if you plan to rev it out to 6k or so you're not going to want to be using stock bolts. The heads will need the rocker studs pinned or buy screw in studs, you'll need headeres 1 3/4 primarys would be good.
Definetly research more, everyone i go to school with comes up with these sorta ideas on making power (no offense meant seriously) and i've found none of them know anything about a motor other than exactly how it spins and reciprocates.
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Car: Tree Huggers
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Transmission: Appreciate Me.
That's some of the crappiest advice I've ever seen on here. Why not just tell him to go buy some el-cheapo cigars and light them with $100 bills instead?
The stroker kit for a 305 is the biggest waste of hard earned money. If he's thinking of power, the 350 is the way to go, not a rinky dink 305.
And if you are a novice, maybe you should refrain from giving 'novice' advice.
The stroker kit for a 305 is the biggest waste of hard earned money. If he's thinking of power, the 350 is the way to go, not a rinky dink 305.
And if you are a novice, maybe you should refrain from giving 'novice' advice.
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
Originally posted by flaming-ford
Definetly research more, everyone i go to school with comes up with these sorta ideas on making power (no offense meant seriously) and i've found none of them know anything about a motor other than exactly how it spins and reciprocates.
Definetly research more, everyone i go to school with comes up with these sorta ideas on making power (no offense meant seriously) and i've found none of them know anything about a motor other than exactly how it spins and reciprocates.
i thought i knew a good amount about engines but i know more about just cars in general than i do about the engine
i have a camaro shop near by and i can get a used 350 that runs for like $700 www.camaros.com if anyone wants to check it out
but they specialize in 60's and 70's more than anything else they only have a few third gens and they're just sitting there engineless and tranny-less
but plenty of bare blocks and engines in any state of disrepair
i don't wanna have to change out wiring harnesses or anything tho i want to stick with a 305 for now until i graduate
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From: Brighton, CO
Car: '72 Chevy Nova
Engine: Solid roller 355
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10-bolt 3.73 Posi
Originally posted by Red Devil
You'd get the most for your money by getting the 350 and using the 305 for a potting stand. When you start talking machine work and '305' it typically isn't worth it and 350 cores are typically cheap.
You'd get the most for your money by getting the 350 and using the 305 for a potting stand. When you start talking machine work and '305' it typically isn't worth it and 350 cores are typically cheap.
Dude if you're pulling the motor do yourself a favor and grab a junkyard 350 that still turns. You can probably reuse the crank and rods to save some money and you'll have to buy a rebuild kit anyway.
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Yes, building a 335 is a terrible, terrible idea.
If you're on a budget, you can rebuild the 305. As soon as you start replacing a lot of parts and doing a lot of machine work though you get close to the cost of building a 350 or 383.
If you're on a budget, you can rebuild the 305. As soon as you start replacing a lot of parts and doing a lot of machine work though you get close to the cost of building a 350 or 383.
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Originally posted by urbanhunter44
305s make sweet gearhead coffee tables too!
305s make sweet gearhead coffee tables too!
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
$650's not bad at all, i spent $900 for my car with fading paint and 60k miles, just needed a tune up, the guy that was selling it was rather old and i dont think he knew what he had. oh well, its mine now!!!!
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
my advice is if you want to go all out, the 305 can be a quick motor. its all about planning. there are people with 12/13 sec na 305's. its all about what you want to do with the motor and how fast you want to go.
Like in my case i plan to beef up the 305 a bit but i am going to buy parts that i can swap over to a 350 when i get one later on, for example exhaust/headers, stuff like that.
Just remember its much easier to make hp/tq with more cubes.
Like in my case i plan to beef up the 305 a bit but i am going to buy parts that i can swap over to a 350 when i get one later on, for example exhaust/headers, stuff like that.
Just remember its much easier to make hp/tq with more cubes.
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From: Littleton, CO USA
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Let's see, rebuilding the 305:
Take the engine out, take it apart, send the parts off to the machine shop, buy new parts to go back in when the machine shop is done, pay the machine shop, bring the parts back home, assemble the engine, put the engine back in.
Or, a put in a 4" bore kit:
Take the 305 engine out, take it apart, send the heads to the machine shop along with the 350 shortblock core you bought and disassembled (unless the machine shop has one and picks up the story from there), buy new parts to go back in when the machine shop is done (same or lower price than 305 parts), pay the machine shop, bring the parts back home, assemble the engine, put the engine back in.
Or, an engine swap with a 350:
Take the 305 engine out, take it apart, send the heads to the machine shop along with the 350 shortblock core you bought and disassembled (unless the machine shop has one and picks up the story from there), buy new parts to go back in when the machine shop is done (same or lower price than 305 parts), pay the machine shop, bring the parts back home, assemble the engine, put the engine back in.
Tell me again why you don't want to do an "engine swap"?
Look, I'm no "305 hater". I souped one up and drove it daily for 4 years. But, I didn't spend a dime at the machine shop on the shortblock or anything that didn't transfer over to a 350, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do any different.
Take the engine out, take it apart, send the parts off to the machine shop, buy new parts to go back in when the machine shop is done, pay the machine shop, bring the parts back home, assemble the engine, put the engine back in.
Or, a put in a 4" bore kit:
Take the 305 engine out, take it apart, send the heads to the machine shop along with the 350 shortblock core you bought and disassembled (unless the machine shop has one and picks up the story from there), buy new parts to go back in when the machine shop is done (same or lower price than 305 parts), pay the machine shop, bring the parts back home, assemble the engine, put the engine back in.
Or, an engine swap with a 350:
Take the 305 engine out, take it apart, send the heads to the machine shop along with the 350 shortblock core you bought and disassembled (unless the machine shop has one and picks up the story from there), buy new parts to go back in when the machine shop is done (same or lower price than 305 parts), pay the machine shop, bring the parts back home, assemble the engine, put the engine back in.
Tell me again why you don't want to do an "engine swap"?
Look, I'm no "305 hater". I souped one up and drove it daily for 4 years. But, I didn't spend a dime at the machine shop on the shortblock or anything that didn't transfer over to a 350, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do any different.
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From: Verona Va
Car: 86 Trans Am,03 Yukon,92 Z28
Engine: 5.3, 5.3, lb9
Transmission: th350,4l60e,700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.73,3.73,2.73
hey i built a budget 305 i got a set of 416 heads reworked and block bored .030 over w/ frezze plugs adn cam bearrings instaled for $470 and the whole motor build in all is just a hair over $1200 and about 300hp at the crank but this is just my dialy driver motor untill i get my 383 finished i got a 350 4 bolt main block for $35 never been bored
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
Originally posted by five7kid
Tell me again why you don't want to do an "engine swap"?
Look, I'm no "305 hater". I souped one up and drove it daily for 4 years. But, I didn't spend a dime at the machine shop on the shortblock or anything that didn't transfer over to a 350, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do any different.
Tell me again why you don't want to do an "engine swap"?
Look, I'm no "305 hater". I souped one up and drove it daily for 4 years. But, I didn't spend a dime at the machine shop on the shortblock or anything that didn't transfer over to a 350, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do any different.
the 305 has 97k miles on it
does it really cost the same if not less to drop in a 350?
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Originally posted by Screamin86
i got a 350 4 bolt main block for $35 never been bored
i got a 350 4 bolt main block for $35 never been bored
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
if i went to a junk yard to look around for a 350 block, what should i look for? i know the tpi is the same for the 305 as 350 so thats covered.
i know some 350's were 2 bolt mains which i am going to shy away from just because 4 bolt mains are that much better. how could i tell the difference? also what does a 350 long block cost?
i know some 350's were 2 bolt mains which i am going to shy away from just because 4 bolt mains are that much better. how could i tell the difference? also what does a 350 long block cost?
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
i'm not looking to build a competition engine
i just want something that i can have fun with and won't cost me much
but i'm beginning to think that a 350 is still the cheapest way to go
since there are like a bazillion 350 blocks all over the planet and an infinite amount of mods for them
i just want something that i can have fun with and won't cost me much
but i'm beginning to think that a 350 is still the cheapest way to go
since there are like a bazillion 350 blocks all over the planet and an infinite amount of mods for them
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
Originally posted by gp423
i know some 350's were 2 bolt mains which i am going to shy away from just because 4 bolt mains are that much better. how could i tell the difference? also what does a 350 long block cost?
i know some 350's were 2 bolt mains which i am going to shy away from just because 4 bolt mains are that much better. how could i tell the difference? also what does a 350 long block cost?
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Originally posted by gp423
i know some 350's were 2 bolt mains which i am going to shy away from just because 4 bolt mains are that much better.
i know some 350's were 2 bolt mains which i am going to shy away from just because 4 bolt mains are that much better.
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
Originally posted by Apeiron
Factory 4 bolt mains aren't significantly better than 2 bolt mains.
Factory 4 bolt mains aren't significantly better than 2 bolt mains.
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Originally posted by gp423
yes but 4 bolt mains can hold much more power than 2 bolt mains
yes but 4 bolt mains can hold much more power than 2 bolt mains
The only way to tell the difference is to look. The castings and casting numbers are identical, only the machining was different. If you can find a 4 bolt block, great. If you can't, don't worry about it.
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From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
hmm, i always thought midrange hp(350-400) was the most 2 bolts could handle. thats what people were telling me when i had my 67 cutlass and a 330 in it. everyone was like dont build it, youll tear the motor apart!
Id like to get a 4 bolt just for the added protection against damage to the motor.
maybe after i get my tax return ill invest it on a shiney new 350! lol, or maybe ill pay for insurance what ever i feel is more important at the time!
Id like to get a 4 bolt just for the added protection against damage to the motor.
maybe after i get my tax return ill invest it on a shiney new 350! lol, or maybe ill pay for insurance what ever i feel is more important at the time!
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
An Oldsmobile 330 is an entirely different animal from a small block chevy. Even still, there's no additional "protection against damage" with a 4 bolt block. If you're on a budget, get whatever you can afford. You won't be able to hurt it.
As long as we're on the subject, if you're looking for something fun to drive, there are also a lot of other things you can spend money on to improve the performance of the car besides a new engine.
As long as we're on the subject, if you're looking for something fun to drive, there are also a lot of other things you can spend money on to improve the performance of the car besides a new engine.
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From: Verona Va
Car: 86 Trans Am,03 Yukon,92 Z28
Engine: 5.3, 5.3, lb9
Transmission: th350,4l60e,700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.73,3.73,2.73
if your swaping from 305 to a 350 doesnt mean that you have to replace your wiring harness! where did u hear that? but the 305 i built i bought a running motor for $150 and rebuilt it entirely for about $1200 that was inclufding the initial cost of the running motor. that 350 i have it still has the original rods crank and pistons and oil pan. but pistons are rusted in and i will be replacing everything in it only part i can use is the block. you can find a 350 anywhere just gotta know where to look and who to ask for best deals
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From: Brighton, CO
Car: '72 Chevy Nova
Engine: Solid roller 355
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10-bolt 3.73 Posi
Originally posted by Apeiron
An Oldsmobile 330 is an entirely different animal from a small block chevy. Even still, there's no additional "protection against damage" with a 4 bolt block. If you're on a budget, get whatever you can afford. You won't be able to hurt it.
As long as we're on the subject, if you're looking for something fun to drive, there are also a lot of other things you can spend money on to improve the performance of the car besides a new engine.
An Oldsmobile 330 is an entirely different animal from a small block chevy. Even still, there's no additional "protection against damage" with a 4 bolt block. If you're on a budget, get whatever you can afford. You won't be able to hurt it.
As long as we're on the subject, if you're looking for something fun to drive, there are also a lot of other things you can spend money on to improve the performance of the car besides a new engine.
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From: Littleton, CO USA
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
No, you don't have to change the wiring harness to put in a 350.
Yes, you have to do other things so the 350 won't act like a 305 - namely, exhuast. The LG4 305 has about as lame an exhaust system as you could hurt a car with, and they hurt it well. Put a 350 in its place, and it'll hurt the 350 even more.
There is probably nothing "wrong" with your 305 with only 97k miles on it. You want to make it run better, go to the FAQ forum and read the thread about 305s. Most of what you'd have to do for a 305 you'd have to do for a 350, so start by doing things to the 305 first.
The absolute last thing that will improve performance is boring the cylinders. 2nd to the last is changing the carb.
Oh, why bother going through all this? Read the FAQ thread.
'Nuf said.
Yes, you have to do other things so the 350 won't act like a 305 - namely, exhuast. The LG4 305 has about as lame an exhaust system as you could hurt a car with, and they hurt it well. Put a 350 in its place, and it'll hurt the 350 even more.
There is probably nothing "wrong" with your 305 with only 97k miles on it. You want to make it run better, go to the FAQ forum and read the thread about 305s. Most of what you'd have to do for a 305 you'd have to do for a 350, so start by doing things to the 305 first.
The absolute last thing that will improve performance is boring the cylinders. 2nd to the last is changing the carb.
Oh, why bother going through all this? Read the FAQ thread.
'Nuf said.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
From: Grand Terrace, CA
Car: 88 Camaro
Engine: 310 LG4
Transmission: 700R4 w/2200 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Originally posted by five7kid
Oh, why bother going through all this? Read the FAQ thread.
'Nuf said.
Oh, why bother going through all this? Read the FAQ thread.
'Nuf said.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
Likes: 3
From: Southern IN
Car: 89 Camaro, 00Xtreme s-10, 89 Buick "Party Ave"
Engine: 305tbi
Transmission: 700r
ok.....the wiring harness is the same ...good to go....if a guy gets the 350 shortblock......what on the 305 will transfer with/out hindering performance??? are the intakes/tbi units the same....or easily moded????
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
Originally posted by ryan77
ok.....the wiring harness is the same ...good to go....if a guy gets the 350 shortblock......what on the 305 will transfer with/out hindering performance??? are the intakes/tbi units the same....or easily moded????
ok.....the wiring harness is the same ...good to go....if a guy gets the 350 shortblock......what on the 305 will transfer with/out hindering performance??? are the intakes/tbi units the same....or easily moded????
Thread Starter
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iTrader: (3)
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Posts: 1,093
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From: western ny
Car: '82 formula clone, 95 saab 900se
Engine: 350 vortec'd tbi, 2.0L turbo
Transmission: 700r4, 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 2.77 open
Originally posted by urbanhunter44
What were you planning on doing with the tranny and the rear end? A good stall and some good gears with a posi will wake that thing up like you wouldn't believe.
What were you planning on doing with the tranny and the rear end? A good stall and some good gears with a posi will wake that thing up like you wouldn't believe.
i know nothing about gear ratios and that
but i was planning on putting a higher stall converter on
any suggestions?
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 20,981
Likes: 11
From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Start with the exhaust. It's the biggest single thing holding your car back right now, and you'll be able to use it with whatever engine you build later.
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside NY
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: LB9 305 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: open 2.73's baby!!
one quick question on the exhaust, is it better to get a good cat back and stay single piped till the muffler or spring for true duals? would it make a difference you can notice? thanks!
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,104
Likes: 1
From: Pensacola, FL
Car: 1999 Saturn SL2
Engine: 4 cylinder
Transmission: 4-speed automatic
Originally posted by 88_Import_Slaye
that is why I just added a link in my sig
that is why I just added a link in my sig
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=261488
By the way, I am not sure how long you have been browsing the site, but that "Hotrodding the LO3" article has been floating around these boards for a while now. The article is full of misinformation and misguided theories. Here is a copy of a post I made a while back concerning that article:
The website that you linked to has been discussed many a time on this forum. While the author does provide some good theoretical points about engine performance in general, many of the things he mentions on the page are either lacking important details or just pure misinformation.
He spends a huge chunk of the page talking about making a cold air intake (and believing that there are "huge gains" to be had from one), but barely touches on PROM tuning/burning, a critical part of any EFI performance buildup, including TBI. Instead, he recommends a JET chip.
The author also goes into detail about changing out the stock accessories such as the water pump, thermostat, radiator, cooling fan, and oil cooler for a performance replacement. Not once (yes, not even ONE TIME) does he mention replacing the stock manifolds on the LO3 with a set of headers, which would most certainly provide more power than replacing all of things he mentioned above.
He also make a big deal about upgrading the stock TBI unit by porting it out or buying a bigger aftermarket unit. I don't have a TBI car, but from what I hear, the gains from an aftermarket or upgraded TBI unit are not that impressive, especially considering the fact that a better camshaft would provide much better results as far as $$-to-HP ratios are concerned. He barely mentions anything about a camshaft in the entire page.
And most of all, my favorite two quotes on the whole page:
quote:Whoever has the most torque wins. Period.
quote:The 200 horsepower, 300 ft/lbs. torque car will run away from the 300 horsepower / 200 ft/lb. car all day long, without effort.
This is simply bure . I know from first-hand experience that this is simply not true.
I can point out more bits of misinformation on his site if you would like, but I believe these are the most relevant to the discussion at hand.
In any case, I don't believe the author wrote this with the intent to trick or decieve anyone. I think he was simply misinformed and unaware of where real power can be achieved with the LO3. Not to mention the site is more than a few years old now. Stick with the advice given on thirdgen.org, and you'll be alright.
He spends a huge chunk of the page talking about making a cold air intake (and believing that there are "huge gains" to be had from one), but barely touches on PROM tuning/burning, a critical part of any EFI performance buildup, including TBI. Instead, he recommends a JET chip.
The author also goes into detail about changing out the stock accessories such as the water pump, thermostat, radiator, cooling fan, and oil cooler for a performance replacement. Not once (yes, not even ONE TIME) does he mention replacing the stock manifolds on the LO3 with a set of headers, which would most certainly provide more power than replacing all of things he mentioned above.
He also make a big deal about upgrading the stock TBI unit by porting it out or buying a bigger aftermarket unit. I don't have a TBI car, but from what I hear, the gains from an aftermarket or upgraded TBI unit are not that impressive, especially considering the fact that a better camshaft would provide much better results as far as $$-to-HP ratios are concerned. He barely mentions anything about a camshaft in the entire page.
And most of all, my favorite two quotes on the whole page:
quote:Whoever has the most torque wins. Period.
quote:The 200 horsepower, 300 ft/lbs. torque car will run away from the 300 horsepower / 200 ft/lb. car all day long, without effort.
This is simply bure . I know from first-hand experience that this is simply not true.
I can point out more bits of misinformation on his site if you would like, but I believe these are the most relevant to the discussion at hand.
In any case, I don't believe the author wrote this with the intent to trick or decieve anyone. I think he was simply misinformed and unaware of where real power can be achieved with the LO3. Not to mention the site is more than a few years old now. Stick with the advice given on thirdgen.org, and you'll be alright.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,104
Likes: 1
From: Pensacola, FL
Car: 1999 Saturn SL2
Engine: 4 cylinder
Transmission: 4-speed automatic
Originally posted by gp423
one quick question on the exhaust, is it better to get a good cat back and stay single piped till the muffler or spring for true duals? would it make a difference you can notice? thanks!
one quick question on the exhaust, is it better to get a good cat back and stay single piped till the muffler or spring for true duals? would it make a difference you can notice? thanks!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
From: Grand Terrace, CA
Car: 88 Camaro
Engine: 310 LG4
Transmission: 700R4 w/2200 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Originally posted by Nate86
I believe 5-7 was referring to this link:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=261488
By the way, I am not sure how long you have been browsing the site, but that "Hotrodding the LO3" article has been floating around these boards for a while now. The article is full of misinformation and misguided theories. Here is a copy of a post I made a while back concerning that article:
While I am not trying to be condescending, I hope that you will take his advice with a large grain of salt. The advice given on thirdgen.org regarding performance builds tends to be much more sound, not to mention updated frequently as new performance builds and techniques are discovered.
I believe 5-7 was referring to this link:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=261488
By the way, I am not sure how long you have been browsing the site, but that "Hotrodding the LO3" article has been floating around these boards for a while now. The article is full of misinformation and misguided theories. Here is a copy of a post I made a while back concerning that article:
While I am not trying to be condescending, I hope that you will take his advice with a large grain of salt. The advice given on thirdgen.org regarding performance builds tends to be much more sound, not to mention updated frequently as new performance builds and techniques are discovered.
Last edited by 88_Import_Slaye; Feb 10, 2006 at 05:40 PM.
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 1
From: Ohio, near columbus
Car: 89 iroc-z
Engine: 305tpi
Transmission: wc-t5
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.08 posi (4 now)
Originally posted by Red Devil
That's some of the crappiest advice I've ever seen on here. Why not just tell him to go buy some el-cheapo cigars and light them with $100 bills instead?
The stroker kit for a 305 is the biggest waste of hard earned money. If he's thinking of power, the 350 is the way to go, not a rinky dink 305.
And if you are a novice, maybe you should refrain from giving 'novice' advice.
That's some of the crappiest advice I've ever seen on here. Why not just tell him to go buy some el-cheapo cigars and light them with $100 bills instead?
The stroker kit for a 305 is the biggest waste of hard earned money. If he's thinking of power, the 350 is the way to go, not a rinky dink 305.
And if you are a novice, maybe you should refrain from giving 'novice' advice.
Thing is he asked about a 305 not a 350......
The setup i mentioned should be enough for 350hp and enough torque to have you going through way to many tires.....
If you go with a 350 though you could pretty much follow the same build, vortec l31, xe262h10 cam arp bolts so on......
I've researched these builds for months and they are definetly proven and overused almost but, it's definetly a good starting point and it should make for a good streeet car and maybe even a late model camaro killer.
Last edited by flaming-ford; Feb 10, 2006 at 08:08 PM.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 20,981
Likes: 11
From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
Maybe Red Devil wasn't as polite as he could have been, but the 335 kit you suggested isn't a good starting point for anything except wasting money. You can build a 383 for less, including the price of the 350 block.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: loxahatchee fla
maybe this will be of interest , the main reason 305s have rotten STOCK performance is the combo of low cpr, junk heads that flow like crap and mild cams, THAT CAN BE CHANGED
while youll never match a 383 you might be surprized at what COULD be done
http://www.ws6transam.org/ported.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/projectbuild/48358/
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/854/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar...148_0312_proj/
http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html
while youll never match a 383 you might be surprized at what COULD be done
http://www.ws6transam.org/ported.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/projectbuild/48358/
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/854/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar...148_0312_proj/
http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 0
Originally posted by grumpyvette
maybe this will be of interest , the main reason 305s have rotten STOCK performance is the combo of low cpr, junk heads that flow like crap and mild cams, THAT CAN BE CHANGED
while youll never match a 383 you might be surprized at what COULD be done
http://www.ws6transam.org/ported.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/projectbuild/48358/
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/854/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar...148_0312_proj/
http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html
maybe this will be of interest , the main reason 305s have rotten STOCK performance is the combo of low cpr, junk heads that flow like crap and mild cams, THAT CAN BE CHANGED
while youll never match a 383 you might be surprized at what COULD be done
http://www.ws6transam.org/ported.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/projectbuild/48358/
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/854/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar...148_0312_proj/
http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html
As far as RD being a jerk, of course he is.
He is also a jerk that is right. Urging someone to build a 335 is akin to encouraging them to shoot themselves.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,449
Likes: 508
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally posted by ljnowell
He is also a jerk that is right. Urging someone to build a 335 is akin to encouraging them to shoot themselves.
He is also a jerk that is right. Urging someone to build a 335 is akin to encouraging them to shoot themselves.
If you know what you are doing, you can build a 350 HP 335 on a VERY LIMITED budget. About $1500.00, including machine work, and it WON't blow up when driven modestly. I am going to start with your typical carbed 80s 305 and either 416 or 601 heads. We are going to assume the engine is a core engine. Think of an aftermarket internally balanced 383 crank with the 350 main size(less than $200.00), 5.565" 400 chevy rods(can get them reconditioned for $100.00 a set of 8 all day long), hypereutetic rebuilder 305 pistons (see the whole kit (full of Felpro, Mellings, Speed Pro, etc) minus the crank and rods go on Ebay for $369.00 "BUY IT NOW" all the time). The kit comes with your choice of cam. The local machine shop that I use, charges $10.00 a hole for boring, $100.00 for block prep(including cam bearings, cleaning, etc), $15 for Brass over steel freeze plugs, and $150.00 for a precision balance job. Now lets say that you spend about 8 hr in the garage with a grinder(30 minutes a port), porting the heads per the numerous threads on here, the heads now flow similar to vortec heads. Toss in a performer RPM intake, valve springs, pushrods, new rockers and *****, a few extras, and you are there. I would add headers, a good exhaust, and keep the Q-Jet carb, even if it is the electronic one.
Alot of people around here think that because it sounds good, it runs good. That is not necessarily the case. The 335 that I built is very tame sounding compared to most "BUILT" engines around here. The trick to making them perform is to realize that at 5,500 RPM they are going to be dead anyway (smaller bore, long stroke, short rods, and smallish ports) and cam accordingly. With the added torque there is no need to push the engine much past 5,000 on the street.
Last edited by Fast355; Feb 10, 2006 at 09:15 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Fast355
I built a 335 for a customer that has shown tailights to alot of "BUILT" 350s.
If you know what you are doing, you can build a 350 HP 335 on a VERY LIMITED budget. About $1500.00, including machine work, and it WON't blow up when driven modestly. I am going to start with your typical carbed 80s 305 and either 416 or 601 heads. We are going to assume the engine is a core engine. Think of an aftermarket internally balanced 383 crank with the 350 main size(less than $200.00), 5.565" 400 chevy rods(can get them reconditioned for $100.00 a set of 8 all day long), hypereutetic rebuilder 305 pistons (see the whole kit (full of Felpro, Mellings, Speed Pro, etc) minus the crank and rods go on Ebay for $369.00 "BUY IT NOW" all the time). The kit comes with your choice of cam. The local machine shop that I use, charges $10.00 a hole for boring, $100.00 for block prep(including cam bearings, cleaning, etc), $15 for Brass over steel freeze plugs, and $150.00 for a precision balance job. Now lets say that you spend about 8 hr in the garage with a grinder(30 minutes a port), porting the heads per the numerous threads on here, the heads now flow similar to vortec heads. Toss in a performer RPM intake, valve springs, pushrods, new rockers and *****, a few extras, and you are there. I would add headers, a good exhaust, and keep the Q-Jet carb, even if it is the electronic one.
Alot of people around here think that because it sounds good, it runs good. That is not necessarily the case. The 335 that I built is very tame sounding compared to most "BUILT" engines around here. The trick to making them perform is to realize that at 5,500 RPM they are going to be dead anyway (smaller bore, long stroke, short rods, and smallish ports) and cam accordingly. With the added torque there is no need to push the engine much past 5,000 on the street.
I built a 335 for a customer that has shown tailights to alot of "BUILT" 350s.
If you know what you are doing, you can build a 350 HP 335 on a VERY LIMITED budget. About $1500.00, including machine work, and it WON't blow up when driven modestly. I am going to start with your typical carbed 80s 305 and either 416 or 601 heads. We are going to assume the engine is a core engine. Think of an aftermarket internally balanced 383 crank with the 350 main size(less than $200.00), 5.565" 400 chevy rods(can get them reconditioned for $100.00 a set of 8 all day long), hypereutetic rebuilder 305 pistons (see the whole kit (full of Felpro, Mellings, Speed Pro, etc) minus the crank and rods go on Ebay for $369.00 "BUY IT NOW" all the time). The kit comes with your choice of cam. The local machine shop that I use, charges $10.00 a hole for boring, $100.00 for block prep(including cam bearings, cleaning, etc), $15 for Brass over steel freeze plugs, and $150.00 for a precision balance job. Now lets say that you spend about 8 hr in the garage with a grinder(30 minutes a port), porting the heads per the numerous threads on here, the heads now flow similar to vortec heads. Toss in a performer RPM intake, valve springs, pushrods, new rockers and *****, a few extras, and you are there. I would add headers, a good exhaust, and keep the Q-Jet carb, even if it is the electronic one.
Alot of people around here think that because it sounds good, it runs good. That is not necessarily the case. The 335 that I built is very tame sounding compared to most "BUILT" engines around here. The trick to making them perform is to realize that at 5,500 RPM they are going to be dead anyway (smaller bore, long stroke, short rods, and smallish ports) and cam accordingly. With the added torque there is no need to push the engine much past 5,000 on the street.
The argument of "showing a 350 up" is ridiculous. Ive seen civics that can show up a 350. That doesnt mean that its worth the money invested.