Well I DO believe you, and believe it myself, that is why I am going to a BIG engine. The thing I don't agree with is always pointing people to the MAGIC 350. The 305 is a 350, minus almost 1/4" of bore. The 350 is a 400 minus 1/8" of bore and 1/4 of stroke. A 383 is a 400 minus an 1/8" of bore. Catch my drift. A 427 BB is a 454 minus some stroke, etc. If you have a 350 great, build it. If you have a 305, no big deal, build it. They can both be AWESOME performers when built right. True that a 350 can make more power with the same money, but so can just about any LARGER engine. larger engine=more potential, no way around it. That is what I have been trying to point out in almost ever thread I have posted in so far.

And at some point, TOO big will cost you. You also have to consider that these drivelines where never built to take more than the 245 HP L98 350. A well built 305 is more than enough to break every component in it, costing even more money. I think my point here is that with big power comes the need for big changes. These CHANGES are often forgotten when it comes to big power. A well built 383 can make over 500 ft/lbs of torque at the crank, enough to twist, bend, destroy, slip, etc most of the parts behind it.

 

My biggest point is this, when I go to invest money in my car I want to get the biggest bang for my buck. If I have a 305, then cool, I will add every bolt on I can, new cam, etc. But when it comes to the point of machine work, its going to change. I would make the investment in a bigger bore. I agree with you entirely. If I would have had access to a 400 when I did my last engine swap, no doubt I would have used it. Most of us are in the same situation, we dont have unlimited resources, so we have to look at getting the most HP for our money. I think thats what brings us all to the thirdgen. Its an economical platform for performance. I dont suggest a 350 because I hate a 305 or because I think its magical in any way. I certainly dont think its the best engine in the world for performance anyway (gotta love the big CI small blocks nowadays like 434, 454, etc) I just simply hate seeing a newbie waste money. I wish that when I started building on cars there would have been someplace like this to tell me "hey, dont do that. Do this, its cheaper and better." Unfortunately I learned the hard way. I dont mean to sound like an ******* telling people to ditch the 305 in favor of a 350, I just want to try and help people along the way.

 

That's true to an extent, but the smaller bore gives the 305 in particular some valve shrouding issues that the larger bores don't suffer from.

Nobody's saying that the 350 is MAGIC, either. The 350 is simply everywhere. When humans land on Mars, they'll find 350 blocks abandoned by ancient alien civilizations. The sheer numbers that they were produced in, along with their popularity means that parts to put into 350 blocks are cheap and plentiful at just about every level of performance. Not so for for the bastard children of the small block family, and at some point it makes little sense to spend more money on a smaller, less capable engine.

 

This is a great point. The guts of the engine might be one of the last places you should upgrade on these cars.

 

That is repectable.

I hope I don't always come off sounding like the 305 is the one engine to judge all engines. After all they ARE SMOG engines, designed when the future of the V8 was glim, tall gear ratios, tight converters, lean A/F mixtures, and horrible advance curves were the norm. My 1983 305 was proof to this, in stock form it was not near as weakly tuned as a F-body, but it still had almost 1 full second hidden in the factory calibration. Just by rejetting the carb, recurving the distributer, High Flow cat, low-restriction muffler, I was able to cut one full second off my 1/4 mile ET and gain almost 10 MPH while gaining fuel economy AND cleaner emissions. 305 are just what 90% of the readers here have. Most are just wanting a basic rebuild, with a little more power, while keeping there car economical and reliable. That is why I suggest keeping the 305 in alot of instances. If a 305 in a 5,300 lbs aerodynamic brick can do almost 2x the national speed limit, I see the basic 305 plenty powerful for a reliable daily driver. I would not build a 305 for a Track only car unless the rules madated it. To further back this up, notice that in 90% of the builds I offer advice to go with a dual plane intake, a smallish carb, smaller headers, a cam of 225* @ .050 or smaller, small ports, small valves, etc.

 

I wish that was the case, SOUTH of the RUST BELT. Down here your choices are 305, 305, 305, 305 or 305. Every 350 that goes into a yard, typically gets scooped up by a local rebuilder or command a stiff price. $600.00 is around the average for the last TBI 350 long-block that I bought used and put into a work truck for a customer.

FYI, the 305 was built in numbers rivaling the 350 from 1976 to 2002. Just ask the percentage of engines by vehicle type from say 1976-1995 or so on trucks, vans, elcamino, caprice, etc. I would say somewhere between 70-90% of the ones produced where the 305. The 305 was even the base engine in a 3/4 ton truck, van, suburban, etc. In Canada 305s were used in HD 2 ton trucks.

 

I'd be driving north and loading up that van with $50 350 blocks to resell for $600.

 

Sounds like a good plan. The cars up North really don't seem to last more than 10 yrs, or so I have noticed. Have seen lots of cars being parted out that are only 5-6 yrs old on Ebay due to rust.

You wouldn't be willing to ship me one of those good $50.00 400 blocks this way would you?

 

What is the real issue here, cost? I have not seen any difference in 305 vs 350 costs, except in special 416 305 heads for circuit cars (i'll try to find the url). Best bang for the buck? Sure a 350 will be the better deal, BUT, when you consider what the individual situation is, it might not be.

Example: He already has the 305 block. He doesnt have to go out and find a 350 block. As plentiful as everyone claims, I was not able to find one less than $700 at the local junk yards because they pulled em from wrecked cars and sold em whole. I had a choice between a $700 complete 350 from a 90-somthing suburban, or a $700 stripped version of the SAME motor. Sorry, but where I was, and it was not a remote location, I was not able to get a block.

I got a donor car with a 305 for free! I had no way to haul a motor block, let alone a complete motor. He already has the car and engine in tact. He can simply do bolt ons and have some fun.

it's what he wants to do. I wish there was a forum just for ODD ball, or non 350 people. I asked for one a while ago, but was rejected

 

I'm an *******, boo hoo. I also try not to blow smoke up people's asses.

His question was, apparently (at least to anyone with reading comprehension above Kidrcth's), rebuilding his 305 cost-effectively. Making it into a crafts project over rebuilding it is cost effective. If you haven't figured that out yet, start paying attention.

Goodie, you've read about a bunch of them for -months-. There are a few of us on here that have been building them for -years-. Hell I think two of the guys I know on here have been doing it as long as I've been alive. Where do you want to get your information from? Keep reading twiggy.




And here is the fallacy of that thiunking, if you were to build a 350 for that customer on the same budget, could you get more out of the 350 over the 305? Don't hem or haw or go grey area on me. The answer, 99999 times out of 100000 is yes. And that was my not so subtle point.

 

Yes, but he wanted the original engine block in the car still.

That being said, if he had come in with a 400, I could have gotten more out of it than a 350 built on the same budget.

When I was younger, I built a 2.8 that made 240 FWHP @ 6,500 RPM for a 5 spd S10. It was quick, when you reved it high, around town it was a dog. A near stock 305 could have made the same power at 4,000 rpm and been much quicker. The fact of the matter is, it was fun to do something with that little 2.8.

 

i dont mean to be rude or anything by any means and please dont take it that way, but what if someone just wanted to build a 305 because thats what they had? is that such a bad thing? im not trying to be mean at all, its just when people want help trying to make their car that has a 305 go faster, everyone replys, get a 350!!! or something like that. how can that be helpful at all? swapping a motor isnt exactly cheap either, after buying all the parts needed and machine work, you could just stick with what you have and make something thats quicker.

i think its the same priciple as to why people build many cars that stock wise are slow. why dont those people just go out and buy something much faster? im sure there are a bunch of reasons, but most importantly its because, thats what they have.

 

One last comment before I lock this flame-fest.

I, for one, am not one that says, "Don't build a 305." There are reasons to, but the worst possible one is "I already have a 305."

Building a 305 can be done with better results for the money right up to the point of putting machine shop dollars into the shortblock. Guess what? That was the premise of this thread!

Like the FAQ forum 305 thread says, you need to do the same things to a 305 that you need to do to prepare the car for a 350. Want to do exhaust, heads, cam, intake? Sure, go ahead. You'll get better HP/$ than you will putting a 350 shortblock in there as well.

Want to bore the cylinders and turn the crank of a 305? Sorry, you've just crossed the line of return on investment.