Well i found a 327 from a firend wich sold it to me for just 40 bucks! i took apart the whole thing and found out that the cyl's are going to get bored .30 over and get the crankshaft turned 10/10. But i have found a couple of bad things on the block the pictures will show you whats wrong. on the bottom of one the cyl there is a small chip that came off its probably like only 1mm long but did not hurt the cyl to the extent of it going all the way to the watter jackets. I just wanted to get a few opions if it is still good. I mean the crack is all the way down and the pistion dosent even go all the way down, luckly its not on the side wich the pistion skirts ride on. the crack on the pics are on the bottom of the cyl. Oh and could sbc's get the deck cut and how much would this run me?

thanks!

 

If it needs machine work, sell it. Its not worth building at all. Find yourself a 350 block and start out with atleast 33 more cubes. #27 and other small journal crank motors are kind of a different animal and make no sense to use if they need machine work.

 

Any block you decide to build will need machine work.Don't trash a block because it needs an overbore. Hot tank, magnaflux, check line bore, mic and sonic test the cylinders, bore and plate hone all at the very least. You should also paralell and zero deck the block but that's optional. I agree though, start with a 350 and go from there.

 

Well i realy wanted to build a 327 because everybody and there brother has a 350 in their camaro. The machine work dose not bother me at all. I have a friend that works at the local napa shop that im sure will help me out with alot of that stuff needed. And is there a big diffrence in the whole small and large journal that would effect me building it?

 

It makes no sense to spend "X" amount of money machining a block that will be substantialy smaller than a 350. Dollar for dollar the 350 will easily outperform the 327. The 327 was a good engine "in its day" which was 30 years ago. Your reasoning of "everybody has a 350" is only going to cost you a lot of money. The TPI is made to build torque (if thats what your running) where as the 327 was an upper rpm type of motor. A mismatched combo that will get walked on by a similiarly built (and probably cheaper) 350. Might not be what you want to hear but sorry, those are just the facts in this case.

 

I never said scrap it. I just said that it makes no sense to build a 327 when you can build a 350 for the same price or cheaper. Even better get a 350 block and build a 383.

Unless you can get the crank ground for free or very very cheap, build a 350.

 

Hint number 1...

Then build it fast, you'll be differebt. Or paint it pink. Or jack it up like a *****...

Yes, cost. We are overlooking of course the displacement issue... and the fallacious belief of the 'high revvin' 327' of course. That's for later.

 

Keep in mind the machine work is only part of the cost. Pistons, cam kit, and all, looking at $1000 minimum and you do the work. If those cylinders look as bad as the pictures show, I'm not sure the block is any good either.

 

Well i do have a 350 that i could rebuild. Gess i will put this little 327 aside untill i have some more motavation to build it. So i gess that i should build the 350 insted, I have a 350 thats out of my 1974 nova that i could use its a 2bolt main but i was planing on doing that 4 bolt main conversion to it with thoes eagle caps. I also found out that it has 882 heads, are thoes any good?
the 350 is in ok shape but the reason i want to rebuild it is because it is sludged up realy bad and i want to get some good horsepower numbers out of it. do you guys have any good combos? or some adivice that could help me out?

 

I wouldn't spend any additional money on the 4 bolt conversion. I have read some articles that believe you actually weaken the bottom end as you are removing material to add 8 more main cap bolts. A 2 bolt cast crank stock rodded bottom end (prepared properly) is capable of holding 450-500 HP max. Spend your cash on the pieces that will make the power (heads and camshaft) Its all in the combination. When you rebuild your 350, a part of any proper rebuild will be a hot tanking of the block so don't be concerned about the sludge. Are you staying with fuel injection or going carbureted?

 

Just build the 327 and forget what everyone is saying about building the 350. Build what you want! It's your damn car, not theirs. It's your money, not theirs.

 

Hey thanks cartman for sticking up for me man! But i found out that it is going to somewhat cheaper for me to build the 350 because the parts are more common. But im going to go take the block tomarow to napa and see what they say about the block and if that cyl is preaty bad ill just get it resleved and continue on the build. and if that block is that bad then i gess im going to build a 350 block and use the 327 crank for something else. the heads are in good shape when i took the block apart the pistions where in realy good shape the only reason i took the whole thing apart was to see if the bearings where spun or somthing like that. Im going to try to port and polish these heads and get a rebuild kit for them with the 2.020 and 1.600 valves and springs. One thing that is going to help is that i have alot of spare time to work on my own stuff.

 

Hehe I know what you mean about the parts. Friend of mine is about to put together a 283 which has forged pistons and a steel crank. Should be picking it up at the machine shop tomorrow. Really hard to find a couple of the parts and a very narrow selection of forged pistons unless you want custom ones made. Should be a fun little engine and even more fun with the nitrous Everyone said he was crazy for doing it but that made him want to do it more.

 

Find out if that 327 block is a heavier casting and an 020 (cast in block under the timing cover), if it is a heavier casting(and I believe it may be) use it to build a 350 out of as long as the bores are good.

It will be a better stronger block than the 74 350 (which is probably a 3970014 block right? which most likely will be an 010 casting), and if you were going to convert it to a 4 bolt main anyway, have the mains resized on the 327 block to the larger 2.45 mains so you can run the later 2 piece crank from the 74 350. It will cost you no extra cash as long as you were already going to convert one of them to a 4 bolt block.

If you want to build a TBI 327 then go for it. A 327 with headers, an L98 cam, a 3000 rpm converter, and a 3.73 gear in my opinion should run quite well.

Edit: That small journal 327 crank should be a factory forging.

 

The 010/020 casting #'s indicate a higher % of tin/nickel content in the block

 

Yup.

The 74 block is most likely an 010.

The older 67 327 block is likely to be a heavier casting with a higher nickle content. However it could be a standard duty casting and still have the higher (020) nickle content, or it could be a standard duty block with an 010 nickle rating in which case I would take it to the scrap yard.

My 355's block is a 74 350 block (#3970014) and has the 010 nickle rating and is a standard duty block. After I had already built my 355 I came across a 3790010 2 bolt block. It was a heavy duty casting with the 020 nickle rating. I wish I had come across it before I built my 355 out of the 74 block. I got it for free from my brother-in-law, and sold it on that famous on-line auction site whose name I will not type.

 

010/020 stuff is all a myth. Ask the guys at the foundary. It only represents which sand casting mold was used. Some got higher % alloys some didn't but just becuase you have a 010 or 020 doesn't mean you have a heavy duty block or better alloy.

 

so what does it mean if you have a 010 and 020 on it then?

 

If it seemed that I was implying that the 010/020 had anything to do with whether or not it was a heavy duty casting, I will choose different words.

Looking at the block itself, and referencing, the casting numbers will tell you if it is a heavy duty casting. The 010/020 has nothing to do with it being a heavy duty casting, I was told that those numbers had somthing to do with nickle content and that could be right or wrong, I don't know. But once you have seen a heavy casting up next to a standard casting you will see the difference, and should choose the heavier casting as long as it will be cost effective.

 

According to my parts interchange manual, you are correct about the 010/020. The 010 is 1% more tin and the 020 is 2% more nickel. The extra tin was actually there to help the molten metal flow into the cast mold, not so much for strength. The nickel helps make the cylinder barrels harder and more durable. These numbers are on the front and/or back of the block.

 

3rd gen V8 you might want to do the math if all of your parts and labor cost a $1000 or over you can buy a short block for that price. Fully balance with hypereutectic pistons and warranty six (6) months or 6000 miles. I found 3 or more sellers on ebay some even have there own websites. All sell 4 bolt main short blocks for right at a $1000 shipped to your door step. Also do a web search there are hundreds of shops that offer the same deal.

I have a 327 Stealth ram setup with a mild cam and I lay waste to LS1's and newer Mustangs. Pretty much most people that talk smach about them never owned one or had one built with teeth! Think of it this way how many mustang 302's are out there kicking 350 and 383 butt! Its all based on your setup you can have a monster or slug depending on how well everything compliments each other.

A 327 can make good low end torque depending on cam, heads etc.. and their are many guys taking 305's and running mid 13's with them. One guy on this forum stroked his 305 to 335 with a completely stock TPI with 19lb injectors, and 3.23 gears. He's running 13's 1/4mile and 8.2 in the 1/8 he's got the vids to prove it also. BUTTTT a 350 will give you more down low torque and hp which is where a stock TPI shines! Thats why I went with a Stealth Ram to take full advantage of upper rpms. I too just wanted to build a 327 just to be different on the plus side my car sounds wayyy sweeter than any other 350 I've ever heard.

 

A 350 will do more than just give you more tq down low. It will also give you more hp up high than a 327.

A 327 sounds just like a 350 or 305, so how does it sound wayyy sweeter?

 

4"bore and 3.48" stroke 350s are good, but what about a 3.25" stroke with a 4.155" bore 350, all with 6.209" rods?

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article03/A3-P1.htm

Dont get me wrong, it's still a 350

 

Sounds like a waste of time and money. I didnt even read the article, but just off hand, how much were the pistons, and how much was spent on machine work?

 

Read it.

 

Well the 327 i plan to build is going to be using a carb, not a fuel injection system. I mean 350's are good and all but i still am going to build this 327 insted, Our voc auto teacher said the block is in good shape and said that it will work perfectly after some common needed machine work at napa. I do think that crank is a forged unit, I will look at the numbers on the crank and find out on mortec. the way i look at the price of building the 327 is almost the same as building a 350 it just takes some more hunting for parts but its not that bad. Oh i would never buy a crate engine unless it was 1: a LS7, 2: a 572 BBC! lol. I just would rather build my own engine and say that i built this engine that just spanked your car with. And whats the fun of building a car if you dont build the engine?

 

Good luck with the build

 

Just look at it, forged crankshafts are easily identified vs cast because a forged crank will have a wide parting line running down the length of the crank, while the cast crank has a thin parting line.

I believe that all sbc small journal 327 cranks were forged.

Post a good close up pic of the crank.

Part numbers 3734627, 3782680, 3814671, 3884577, 3951130, were forged pieces, and as far as I can tell they were the only small journal 327 cranks available for 1967 and earlier.

 

This won't make it different - mine is already pink!

The builder painted the block with a can of "Porshe Red" - when it dried, it was more like Fushia Pink! To top it off, my brother got me new plug wires for Xmas - he ordered red. The box had a sticker saying red, so he never opened. When I opened box at Xmas - they were bright pink!

So, pick another color, pink is taken! LOL

 

Ahh that sucks i was going to paint it pink! I think purple is better anyways, lol just kiding! I will post some pics of the crank right now if i can. And i know it needs to be turned.

 

Its not letting me upload the files for some reason. its says the upload failed so i could mail them to somebody and maybe they could post them up

 

OMG! This cant be ture! I looked on mortec and it says that it is a 3876768....283.......forged..small journal....3.00" stroke! its a 283 crank? its forged. I gess this engine was a custom little fire breather lol. No wonder it had A 882 heads 76cc heads. man this is crazy. I wonder how this combo was in this 327 block? I gess it would rev preaty quick and high.

 

No it wouldnt rev any higher, the vavletrain is still limiting it.

I wonder why someone would build a 302 and then stick 76cc smogger heads on it? It couldnt have had much in the way of compression. Thats not really that odd of a combo. If its in a SJ block, people did that kind of stuff all the time.

 

well i was going to get a rollor cam and rollor rockers and stuff like that so i hope i would be able to take it to 7000rpm?

 

If I were you I would save up at least $600 and get some good heads to get full potential out of your engine.

These should do well:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB..._BIN_Stores_IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-A...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB..._BIN_Stores_IT

 

At 7000 RPMs the stroke still isnt a factor. At that point the only thing your stroke is really affecting is your cubic inches. I would seriously look at selling it at this point. There are lots of less than smart people that would pay good money for a makeshift 302. Not only that, you could probably get a pretty penny for the block on ebay, selling it to someone needing it for a resto.

 

He does have a point people on ebay would kill to have that block number. I see a lot of bid wars for original 327's and 302's.

 

agreed with selling it on ebay.882 heads suck,and commonly crack.only thing limiting valve train rpm is hydraulic lifters,pressed in studs,and springs.if you do build it,go with solid lifters.
Eric B

 

The 327 is a wonderful block. But in my honest opinion, if you're just looking for more power, then you should consider getting yourself a 350.

That 327 IS a rare block... especially if it's all original and hasn't been machined yet (oversized bearings or overbore cyls). My own person advice would be to send it to a machine shop, have it magnafluxed and hot-tanked.

Buy a can of original Chevy Orange engine enamel and paint the motor. (making sure you mask off the underside and the top of the block).

Then spray the inside of the block with WD-40 and put it up for sale on eBay. Do you still have the heads? If you check the heads, it should have the VIN stamped on the back of it. You should be able to sell the motor to someone who's looking for a period correct / year matching engine.


Someone on here said that it was pointless to spend the money machining a block that's less than a 350. I have to agree.

I have a REALLY REALLY nice 350 CMJ 4-bolt small block chevy engine with HO cyl heads (2.02 Intake and 1.6:1 exhaust). I dropped it into my 81 TransAm, but realized that this car can easily take a much larger motor.

I know I'm going to regret it in the future, but I'm actually just GIVING it away to one of my friends. It has 10,000 miles on a rebuild, a hot cam, a new intake, .020 overbore pistons... it's an excellent motor.

But, I'm replacing it with a 1969 Oldsmobile 455 big block that produces nearly twice the amount of torque.

Which do I want, a 7.5 or a 5.7?

 

I was under the impression that an older block like that needs to have all of the original brackets for the alternator and power steering pump because they aren't tapped the same way a newer block and heads are. If you don't have any of that stuff it might not be to easy to get your hands on , never mind a/c brackets. I may be wrong but it is something to consider along with everything else.

 

i agree, if your going to spend money mine as well get your money worth.

 

The block itself isnt the problem with the accessories, its the heads, which he doesnt have. Of course the block is a problem too, if you ever wanted to put something different crankwise in it. Its a SJ. I guess it would be possible to machine down a standard crank, but I dont know anyone that has done it. We usually dont mess with the small journal stuff. Too old.

 

The 283 crank in a 327 was a common thing in the old days. I wouldn't toss the block at all. I built a small journal 327 and found of all things a '63 Impala station wagon to put it in. That little 327 in a huge grocery getter will outrun most fox bodies in the area. 327's are not substandard by any means. They came from the factory at 300 horses.

 

I didn't see it mentioned, but it sure looks like that one hole will take more than .030 to clean up.

 

I'm not sure that it would clean up with a .060 bore. That looks like one badly damaged cylinder....

 

The 327 is not a worthless engine, even though some may call it that. Its not a waste of time either. It really depends on what you are doing with an engine, more specifically, what its intended use will be. For an engine that will be raced on the strip only, a 327 can serve the purpose. When you can do high RPM clutch drops or run a big stall, you can make up for the raised power band that is to be associated with the smaller bore-smaller displacement engine. Likewise if you are going to be doing 90% of your driving on the street, you want to keep the RPM power band lower, to be more effective. I am not saying that a 327 cannot have bottom end grunt. It most certainly can. As stated above, any engine can be built to be what you want it to be. But, proven fact does come into play here. IF you take the snarly, mean, and nasty cam out of your 350 and install it in a 327, it will be become even less friendly. It will have a more rough idle, and the power band will be pushed up higher. How much is up to debate, but 750-1000 RPMs higher is the norm. This is not preferable for a street engine, as most thirdgens are. In order to counteract this, you would need to install a less aggressive cam profile. This would of course lower the overall power output of the engine. This is the reason for the “No Replacement for Displacement” argument. Equal components in both engines, the larger displacement will prevail.

This should not be mistaken for high revving ability though, this is simply a higher RPM power band due to the smaller displacement of the engine.
.....So before you ask him to add the 33 cubic inches, you should go on and read 327-350 fact from fiction in the "Engine Swap" Boards

 

I know. Given the exact same engine components: cam, heads, valvetrain, intake, distributor. Engine displacment, and stroke have almost no effect on the total peak hp and engine will make. If you have a 302 and run the same heads, intake and cam in a 400 it will make the same peak hp within 1%. But the larger engine will have much more power under the curve. The smaller engine will also make the peak power higher in the rpm band.

This is where the myth of revabilty comes from! But build a bigger engine with bigger heads and cam and it will have the same revability.

 

I dont agree with this at all. Engine displacement is a HUGE FACTOR in output. A 302 with the same heads, cam, etc as a 400 will never make as much power, certainly not within 1%.

 

Once again...

"theirs no replacement for displacement"

Never has been, never will be!


Just for something to burn up some time, heres my crappy example.

Car 1 is a GM 302ci V8 puting out 450hp @ 6500RPM
Car 2 is a good ol chunk of american iron, the GM 350ci V8 pumping 400HP @5500RPM

So the 350 is going to put out more power throughout the entire RPM range and also reach max power at a lower RPM than the 302. Although the 302 makes more power up at the top by the time that thing gets spun up the 350 which puts out more power down low has got you, then you slam it up a gear the 302 drops out of its powerband and you may as well have hit the brakes becuase the 350 still has enough power down low to quickly spool back up into its powerband. Blamo, wasted by the 350!

Now granted you have some good expecience on the stick or a well tuned auto you shouldnt have a problem with a small cube motor dropping too many RPM between shifts.


Make any sence? I hope not...

But to each their own, if a 327s what you want, build it. But at least start off with a solid block. Nothing like spending a few G's on a motor, spinning it up to 6k and having pieces fly through the hood and fenders!

 

i get your example but i dont like it, what if the person had a well geared car for the high reving "302"? say.... a t56 with 4.10s? i think that would make up for the drop in rpm to give the 302 a def. chance