Somehow I managed to screw up this rather simple task.

I was fighting a higher RPM stumble, and am convinced it's fuel related. I Checked the volume test of my fuel pump, and it was ok. I rigged up a T inline right before the carb, and ran a gauge into my car. I made the car do it's stumble thing, and pressure was a solid 1 psi. Cruising around in other situations can make it show ~4psi.

Got a new pump, tried to install it. It was extremely hard to push on the spring to hold it in place while I tightened down the bolts. I was 1/4" away from being done, but I couldn't tighten the bolts any more, for fear of shearing them off. Removed the pump, rotated the motor over a bit. Pushrod didn't seem to go up any higher... Now the grease seemed to be holding it up though, so I tried again. Fought the spring pressure, but got it on.

The new pump has a red spring under the arm, where the old stock one didn't. The old stock one has/had virtually no travel of the arm, the new one has maybe 1/4". Is this normal?

ok, now the main point, hooked up the new pump, started up the car, it was idling super low, gauge showing 0 psi pressure.
It ran out of it's fuel in the bowl, and died. Now, how could I have screwed this up?
No fuel is spilt on the ground, pump looks fine externally...?

 

Ok, this sounds really dumb, but did they give you the right pump for your application? Could you have switched the inlet and outlet lines around so it is actually pumping pressure BACK to the tank instead of gas from the tank? (yeah, kind of hard to imagine doing that, but I had to ask). The pushrod will almost always have some pressure on the spring... just have to put grease on it and rotate the engine to allow it to be pushed up as high as possible into the block. I am wondering what shape your cam eccentric lobe (the lobe on the cam that runs that fuel pump push rod) is in. I've seen some with very high wear and the stroke it delivers to the rod and pump is diminished. Evidently yours is going in and out, so I would think it's ok. Is there any restriction in the line from the tank to the pump, or restriction between the pump and the carb. Is your fuel filter allowing fuel to pass to the carb? Could the sock filter in the tank be plugged or collapsed around the fuel pickup and not allowing fuel to be pulled from the tank? Is there a possible vaccume being created in the tank so that fuel is not allowed to be pulled by the pump? (as in blocked tank vent system) You can cure this temporarily by just removing the gas cap for a test to see if it pulls fuel. Could the new pump be defective if it is the by-pass type that passes any excess fuel and pressure back to the tank... could it be passing almost all the pressure and fuel back to the tank via the return line?

While none of these musings may be helpful or even correct, it may give you a few things to try and think about. Something is either blocking fuel flow, or not allowing the pump to do it's job... OR... you have a bad fuel pump right from the store.... I've seen that happen to my car a few years ago, so it does happen with new pumps!
Good luck and keep us posted!
Brad

 

If you've rotated the engine over far enough there shouldn't be any pressure on the pump arm fighting you while you're trying to put it in.

 

Well, the cam is relatively new, but I rotated the motor over via the key, a bit (hard to tell from the drivers seat), and the pushrod didn't seem to move. Now it must have been working before, since I drove the car to get the new pump.

Well WRT to fighting the pump, I sure didn't have to fight the old pump when I put it on before. It was very easy, no big deal at all. This new one however, is just miserable.

Yea, they gave me the wrong pump at first, C-tire seems to think a non-return style pump is the correct one for my car... So I got the right one, M6626 or something like that. I checked the p/n on rock auto's website.

Feed and return are right, hoses are different size.

The return nipple on the old pump was simply a piece of metal tube with a rounded end, pretty normal. The new pump's return nipple is solid, except a tiny drilled hole, maybe .050" or so. I imagine this would raise my fuel pressure.

It got too dark here, so I had to quit, hence why I started this thread, rather then figuring it out on my own.

I think i'll remove the pump and check it out. I must have screwed up the install. I have a feeling i'm going to remove it, and it's going to look very normal, and i'm going to be frustrated since I still won't know why it didn't work...?

Maybe i'll dump some gas into the carb float bowl, then disconnect the fuel line coming out of the pump, and just put a jug under the car, and crank it over and let it idle, see what happens. The soft line going from pump to carb is a bit cramped by the rad hose, but I don't think it's kinked nearly enough to not let me get enough fuel to idle.

 

Before you pull it off, make sure the suction valve isn't stuck by blowing compressed air in the intake side and out the outlet. If it sat on the shelf for a while the valve may just be "stickied" to the seat. Remember, it's trying to pump air the first few strokes. Like it lost its prime.

 

hmm, no compressed air here.

I guess I can dump some more gas into the carb, and start it up and let it idle. I know it dumped some fuel out of the inlet valve, while I was changing the pumps, so it definately lost it's prime. I just figured while idling on the float bowl, it would have reprimed itself in 4 seconds or so.
If that doesn't work, then it's disassembly time.

 

ok, dumped some gas in the carb, let it idle. It did for about 15 seconds, then died. 0 pressure still.
I removed the pump, all looks fine. I removed the adapter plate, and tried to remove the pushrod. It's firmly stuck up there, not going anywhere at all..?
I couldn't get it to stay in place before, so I put some grease on it, which barely worked at all, but somehow I got it to stay up before- and now it's not coming down.
I really want to inspect that, I have an idea that it's not being pushed by the cam, and not pumping...

 

On the front of the block by the fuel pump, two holes, the upper needs a bolt to seal it, but at the same time the bolt needs to be short. Otherwise it will clamp the FP push rod.

On the same idea can use a too long of a bolt to hold the rod up while installing the pump. First, I usually bump the engine until the rod can be pushed up into the block as far as it can go. As you noticed if the rod is on the high side of the cam lobe, it gets real tough putting the pump into place.

RBob.

 

yep, noticed that bolt. I loosened it up to see if it was binding anything, and no change.
I've got to find a way to pull out that pushrod....

 

Last time I did a mech fuel pump, I had to keep pouring gas into the carb to keep it running, for about 30 seconds, and then I FINNALLY got fuel pressure. Thats assuming you lost almost everything in the line, and having to suck air for a while.

No idea on the push rod besides the bolt in the front of the block. I have seen older cams lose that lobe before.

 

ok, I put vise grips on the rod, and couldn't move it at all. I was getting pretty peeved, so I dumped some gas in the carb, fired it up, and ran over to the pushrod. I pushed it upwards, and felt it moving - just a tad, like maybe 1/16". I shut off the car, and could slide the pushrod out now...

It's bent visibly, looks like it was made out of two pieces, welded together or something, there's a break line. Now i'm not sure if my fuel pump lobe on the cam is still screwed up, or not, so...

I finally sourced a new pushrod (boy they're hard to find), and i'm going to find a way to ride the loser cruiser to get there and try it out.
Wish me luck I guess.

 

A new pushrod did the trick. Fired it up, instant 5psi. Now it idles at 6-8psi, and WOT drops steadily, but never drops below 4psi by the redline. By that time I have to slow down to push my eyelids back onto my eyeballs.

This rocks, no more stumble!
Thanks all, special thanks to supervisor42, i've been emailing him for the last few weeks asking all sorts of q-jet questions, and he's been a great help!
.
.
And now i'll go ahead and put the car cover on the car, and let it rest for the winter, ah, 8 months of restoration for 1 day of driving. Yea, it's worth it.

 

Yeah! Glad to hear you got her fixed. I don't know about you, but it drives me absolutely crazy when something's wrong with my car. Good job chasing it down step by step. You can look forward to a good running car in the spring. I too am getting ready to put away the Bird and Vette as soon as the weather starts getting ugly. I probably only have a few more weeks and I'll be there too. Again, congrats!
Brad

 

Where did you look? Should have been about half a dozen different ones hanging on the wall at Mopac.

 

Todays sunday, they're closed. Yes, they would have had it though.
I went to best buy high perf - now called performance auto warehouse. Open sundays.
C-tire, parts source, napa (including the main warehouse), didn't have it at all.
C-tire is in walking distance. Everything else is judged based on distance to c-train. best buy is a c-train, a bus, and a walk away. A solid 3 hour round trip waste of my life. Pardon my bitterness, but nobody would give me a lift, it was raining, and a steel rod was worth the 3 hours apparently.

 

Best Buy is PAW now? I was wondering how much longer they'd be alive with all their money troubles. After the Mr. Gasket group cut off their credit there probably wasn't much hope for them.

 

Ouch! How did you know that?

no sorry, it's "Performance parts center". I saw on
:::PERFORMANCE-SHOP.COM - CANADAS #1 COMMUNITY FOR AUTO ENTHUSIASTS:::
that their sponser board was gone. So I searched for "best buy high performance" and found a thread by Toma stating that he had quit, Vic was fired etc....

but Vic served me when I went in, so I don't know. I asked Vic what the deal was, and he said it was basically a name change, no difference to me essentially.

 

Maintaining connections can be fun, sometimes.

I never dealt much with Best Buy. I think maybe on only two occasions they actually had a part I wanted in stock. The rest of the time it was always in their warehouse "across the border".

Mopac got most of my business in Calgary, unless Cal was anywhere in the building in which case more often than not I'd just turn around and leave.

The new Mopac in Langley isn't bad, they've combined the Kingsway and Surrey stores into one warehouse and showroom with installation bays. They've got lots of stock, but the counterpeople are kind of hit or miss, just as they always were at the previous stores. The staff in Edmonton used to be great, but I've heard a few people have moved on.

 

hmm. I guess Lordco is probably your best bet where you are eh?
Yea, if I can get into Mopac, they're pretty good with all their stuff there.

Unfortunately, sunday seems to be the day I need the parts most often. I find the problem on saturday, realize I need a new part late in the afternoon, so have to get it sunday.

 

Good to see you fixed the fuel pump

Problems like that can be so frustrating when its such a simple thing and still puzzling.

Did the pump fix your high RPM stumbling? I had that same problem with my 305 before it died. It was stumbling at high RPM's and finnally, after 2 weeks or so of this, it turned to all out detonation at full throttle. I changed the pump and oil and the very first drive, 15 minutes after "fixing it", it spun a rod bearing at the top of 1st. Hopefully you have better luck!

 

geez! Yea, I hope I do have better luck! yuck!
Yea, it appears to have solved the stumble. So far only one test drive though (took it up to 5500RPM in 3rd gear, where it normally stumbles... That's 170km/hr, so I figured i'd slow down...)

That "8 months resto for 1 day drive" was supposed to be an exaggeration, but it started snowing here now, and it looks like last night might have been the only time I'll get to drive it

 

I go to Lordco most of the time. I do a decent volume of parts through my account so I always get a break on price. The other alternatives in town are NAPA (not so bad in most places, but has pretty poor service locally), or Canadian Tire (doesn't deal with a broad enough range of parts to make them worth dealing with).

Even still sometimes I'll pick and choose which people behind the counter I deal with at Lordco. If I want a stock replacement part or I just want a part number ordered, I'll get anyone to do it, but for the more unusual stuff there are one or two guys and ladies I prefer to deal with.

They also have their own regular trucking and distribution system, so if they have a part in stock anywhere in the province, I can get it overnight. If they don't have it in stock, I can get them to send a driver from the Langley store over to Mopac to pick something up and put it on the truck to get it here the next day without paying for shipping.

 

You still gotta drive to Vernon to get to the lordco right?

I used to know a girl who was a driver there... Boy, if she was bringing me parts, that'd make me buy a heck of a lot more stuff. hahaha..

 

No, Lordco is in Salmon Arm. You couldn't give me enough reason to drive to Vernon.

 

ahahahahahhaa oh yea, you're not a fan of Vernon eh? Not the gorgeous drive, the 3 nice beaches, or the ski hill? Compared to Salmon arms man made lake? oooh!

Well that is convenient it's in salmon arm, I didn't know that. I guess you're not out in the boondocks like I thought.

 

Those things aren't part of Vernon. They're features of the Okanagan countryside, which would be immeasurably more beautiful if not spoiled by the twin pestilences of Vernon and Kelowna. It's a credit to the country that the area is still as attractive as it is despite the presence of those two festering boils on a dog's posterior.

 

Whoa, someones bitter alright.

 

Off topic?
Naaa.

 

He's just razzing on my hometown.
Probably 'cuz he's jealous, and has to live in a little dot-on-the-map town out in the country, instead of western canada's vacation spot - Vernon/Kelowna

 

darn, i wish i would of seen your post sooner sonix. i have half dozen fp rods laying around. sorry you guys have to park em for the winter, i just got mine running or i should say idiling consistantly. looking forward to driving it in the nice weather here ( no ac). well i guess it will give you plenty of time to help me get mine running let me know if you need any obscure stuff next spring. i still owe you one for those stud pins.
thanks
mike

 

mine's put away for the winter as well....might drive it wednesday, supposed to crack in the 50s...so one more trip around the block sideways