I own a original 82 Ta with the quad carb 305 engine.
It has done this a couple times but far between, usually starts and runs good.
once back in the summer it did this and now it did it again and this is cool november, so i don't think the colder weather has anything to do with it.

The problem is I can go into a store today and ten minutes later come out and it will crank good but will not fire even with repeated shots of gas from the gas pedal without flooding it.
Then I let it it sit for a few minutes and then turn the key and nothing happens nothing ! no click ,no cranking nothing.
I wait a few minutes getting mu thoughts together and then try again and it starts cranking again but will not start, I looked down the carb while someone pumped the gas pedal and it squirts good and i smelled gas pretty strong so i proped open the butterflys for a couple minutes to let it dry out just in case it had too much gas, tried it again and it just cranked but never hit.
I sprayed some starter fluid into it just to see what would happen and it tried to start after a few cranks, I did this a couple more times and then it fired up and ran good.
I shut it down and it started right up again fine.
I was a little under a 1/4 tank on gas but it never has been a problem before that low but i went and gased up anyway.
I shut it down at the station and it fired back up just fine then too.

Anyone know what this problem is ?

 

I'm guessing you've got a dicey electrical connection somewhere along the ignition lines.
If you turn the key and get NOTHING, then it's probably a safety interlock not letting you crank it over (like the switch that makes sure you have the clutch in), or the starter solenoid has a sketchy connection.
As far as the not starting, i'm guessing that it's not getting spark, since it sounds like it's getting fuel. A chafing wire near the distributor is where i'd check.
Next time it happens, see if you can get someone to quickly give you a hand, and pull off a plug wire, and hold it against the block, get them to crank the motor over, if no spark then you know it's spark related at least...

 

Is it possible that the coil in the HEI is going bad and the starter is getting so hot from the cranking that it just stops with no click at all ?

 

tt

 

Ok new problem that could be part of the old one.
I need help fast.
When i turned the key to start the car ,the starter hung in and kept spinning while the engine was running, and with the key off it still trys to crank the engine until i disconnected the battery, so i removed the starter to replace it but NAPA doesn't show a starter for a 82 TA 305 engine automatic only a 4 speed manual trans.
can anyone tell me what starter i need , my vin is G2AW87H5CN513849.

 

You can do an i-net parts search for a specific vehicle at www.oreillyauto.com or autozone.com. Oreilly shows your starter as their part number 03-0294. Is your solenoid mounted on the starter? Not sure if that's included, but sounds like you got some gremlins in there somewhere.

hth

 

Thank you all for the help.

I replaced the starter a few minutes ago and the coil, so now time will tell if that was the problems because it's starting fine for now.

It's good to meet people willing to help a guy out in need, thanks again.

 

Well since the starter replacement the engine spins good now but i still have to use starter fluid to get it to start sometimes, it has done it twice now this week.
It starts fine in the morning but after i get to school or work and it sits for a few hours it won't start up again, mostly it does but twice now it hasn't at those times.

Whats the problem now since i replaced the coil in the HEI .

 

if starter fluid fixes it sometimes, then its fuel related, and not spark related, i'd think.
This is the crossfire injection setup, not the carb setup?

I'm absolutely not familiar with that setup, so I have no idea what you should try. Perhaps start a post saying "crossfire motor needs starting fluid to start, why?" or something along those lines.

 

I don't have crossfire.
In my original post i said it's a carbed 305.
It has the quadrajet carb and i can smell the gas at times from trying to give it extra fuel thinking what the heck pump it a couple more times since it won't start. so i know it's getting gas.
I can see each squirt when i have someone else pump it for me.
thats why i thought maybe it was spark related and that starter fluid is nore explosive that gas and it has a weak spark.
new coil didn't fix that so maybe new sparkplugs?

 

oh, sorry, I thought you said "dual carb" and I thought you were just mis-naming your cross-fire...

ok, if you can see fuel, then you're more likely flooding it than anything else. Check your choke setup, and make sure it's set right. Theres a bunch of posts on here to tell you how to do that.
If you've pumped it a few times and it won't start, hold the gas to the floor and crank it over, that'll help it clear it's throat if it flooded.

Yep, you can check your plugs, if they're old you can toss in some new copper ones, the basic style R45TS or whatever. The coil is new, but you can still check your spark strength (perhaps a bad module, i'm not leaning towards this, but perhaps). Use spark tester in place of a spark plug, and crank it over, see how "hot" the spark is.

 

I TRIED to change all the plugs today but could only get 5 before i gave up.

I got 1,2,3,4 from the top and #7 from below.

I didn't have a short extension only a swivel and that was a pain.
I don't see any way to get a wrench on the socket at all because all the plugs are way back and the heat shields block most of the plug from view.
And yes the stupid air tubes from the exhaust are in the way big time.
I don't know how I will get the others changed but it will have to do for now, I need the car tonight.
I think with a short extension i can get one or two more plugs out but i'm not sure, I had to use the brail system for all of them so far.

 

Is it possible that my problem is a fuel pump going bad ?

 

No.

Just because you "smell fuel", doesn't necessarily mean that it's THE RIGHT AMOUNT of fuel.

Finish up with the plugs, then get the choke working right. This is what it's for.

 

today the choke light came on ,so i backed the choke off with the dial to real lean and it seemed fine but later tonight it wouldn't start and i had to hold the gas pedal down and crank it for a long time to get it to hit and gradually start.
I guess i need it more richer, I had it a hair past zero towards rich.

 

I started the car up today after sitting over night and it fired right up, so the carb must not be leaking fuel.

Just pumped the gas twice and turned the key ,it was like it was already warmed up and ready go.

 

I don't know if i'm on the right track or not, I read alot of the posts here on choke problems and so i noticed the choke didn't slam shut like i read it's supposed to, so I adjusted the screw thats hidden under the choke housing several times and i think i have it right now.

I moved it in and it reved way too high so i backed it out to about 1200 rpm and it idles down to about 800 rpm with choke off and in gear.
It starts with no gas pump or maybe one pump when cold.
Now i'll see how it acts ffor the next day or so.

Do you think this is the problem?

 

well four days have pasted and so far it is running good.
I hope that was all it was.

 

Well it has done this randomly for several times again.
It will start up great first thing in the mornings and i can drive somewhere and maybe 6 hours later it will crank and crank and not start or maybe "hit" once and then not try to start again but after several long trys and many attempts it will finally start with me holding down the gas pedal untill it revs up idles fine.
It doesn't seem to have a set pattern of time or reason to when it will not start, but it's starting to do it now more regular everyday.
I need help in solving this problem bad !
can anyone help.

 

could my choke be the problem.
When i floor the pedal at cold start and let off the butterflys slam shut all the way, if i hold the pedal down while cranking the butterflys open about a 1/8" inch.
how do i check choke pull off and how do i adjust the butterflys if this is wrong.

 

There is a vacuum diaphragm on the front pass side corner of the carb, that's supposed to pull the choke open a bit right after it starts.

Sounds like you need a new one of those.

Disconnect its vacuum line while the car isn't running. Push its little link thing in, and while it's in, put your finger over the vacuum fitting on it. It should stay pulled in. If it pushes itself back out, it's defective, and you should replace it.

 

I did that and it stayed in till i released my finger.

I don't think the butterflys are opening enough when starting, when i step on the pedal they slam shut and only open a little as long as i keep the pedal down to wot.
And then untill it warms up a second or two i have to keep the pedal down and let it slowly build up and stay running.

 

ok, lets clarify some terminology first;

on the primary side, you see a "flap" - that's the choke air horn flap (I'm sure there's a better word for this...). Far below that, at the bottom of the carb, are the actual primary butterflies. The primary butterflies will be directly linked to you right foot - no ifs ands or buts.

The choke air horn flap however - When you walk out to you car first thing in the cold morning, and look at your carb, the choke flap will be wide open (from the last time you drove it, and it was hot). You will tap the gas about halfway to the floor, that'll give the motor a pump of gas, but most importantly, engage the choke. This will snap that choke flap shut, and lock your idle stop onto the cold idle (faster speed).
Once you crank the motor over, it should fire up, and idle speed will go up to 1500RPM or so, and the choke flap will crack open ~3/16". So you'll just barely be able to stick in a 1/8"-3/16" drill bit in that space.
As the car warms up, the bimetal strip in the choke warms up, and relaxes tension, causing the flap to open more, which will raise the idle speed. You should have 12V going to that bimetal strip to help it warm up faster, if you have no power to your choke, it'll take a REAL LONG TIME for that to open all the way.

You can "blip" the throttle, and it'll drop down onto a lower step of the fast idle (there's about 4 or so.)
Until it's nice and warm, and you can blip it right down onto hot idle, at which point the choke flap will be 90* - straight open.

Until you shut off the car, and it cools down, and that bimetal strip cools and causes more tension to drag that flap shut.


So, what I just described is a "perfect" condition, and you shouldn't settle for anything less.
So - what's happening? When you cold start it, it'll fire, then run for about 2 seconds and stall out? Idle speed never goes high enough? Choke flap never opens at all?

 

you cleared up some things for me.
I have had all those problems you mentioned in my quest to adjust this carb.

I let it sit all night and day to let it get good and cold and then i went back out to make adjustments.
1) Before i started the engine i pushed the choke pull off into the diaphram and checked the gap of the flap on top of the carb, it's at 3/16"
2) I set the round black housing on the bimetal choke to the middle position
3) I started the engine and adjusted the screw thats hidden under and behind the choke housing to 1800 rpm
4) As the engine was warming up i bliped the throttle and it wouldn't move off the steps, so i adjusted the screw that sits on top of the choke pull off linkage connected to the diaphram a little and got it to blip off a step.
5) by now the engine was almost warmed up so i bliped it again and got the choke flap open completely and set the idle speed ( drivers side screw )
to 800 rpm

I'm letting it cool down again to check how it starts.
Did i do everything right?
How do i adjust the screw that sits on top of the pull off linkage for the steps?

 

Well I have spent way too much time on this problem and last night i thought it was fixed, today though it is worse in another way.

it starts up great and idles high with the choke on about 1200 rpm but after about 5 seconds it starts idling down and dies, starts back up great but repeats and dies.
I gave up and took it to a shop, i'll see what someone else says tomorrow.

 

Well the shop said it was the choke coil ,so they replaced it but after three days it is worse, it wants to stall out now after first start up when trying to drive off and hard to start all the time.
Took it back and they said they had it adjusted to much and backed it off some, now it starts kinda ok, sometimes takes two trys and stalls after trying to drive off easy.
They say the carb needs rebuilt and thats why the choke isn't working right.
They want another 400 bucks to do that, I don't know if i trust them now.
Whats your opinions ?

 

I wouldn't pay that kind of cash for a q-jet rebuild, that's rediculous. If you were in my neck of the woods i'd do it for a 26'er of crown, and a rebuild kit.

When the car is totally warmed up, does it run fine? If so, you don't really need a rebuild.

No! Bad! If you try to blip the throttle, and it won't blip off, it means the engine isn't warm enough yet. Either your choke thermostat wire isn't getting power, or the choke thermostat is bad, or the choke thermostat isn't set right. I'll save you the guesswork, it's probably the 3rd case there. If you want to be able to blip it off sooner, and therefore it won't engage the choke unless the engine is colder, that's when you loosen the 3 screws on your choke thermostat, and rotate it a bit. One direction will be "tighter", that'll make the choke stay on longer, the looser will make it stay on less long. The "tighter" might be labeled "rich". It's not rich, that's a stupid thing for them to write, it should say "longer time on choke". I guess that wouldn't fit though...

The screw on top of your choke pulloff valve IS ONLY USED to set how far open the choke blades open on a cold start. The 3/16" you had before was good, you should have left that. Reset this.

This is stereotypical of a misadjusted choke pulloff. It'll fire up, but will quickly suffocate, or have too much air, and die. Reset to ~3/16" or so, that's ballpark. It's hard to say if you should be lower or higher.

 

it does have a slight rough idle and i think i smell like a rich gas smell out the exhaust but it runs great when driving.
can the computer be adjusted to lean out the gas mixture ?

the shop said they drove it awhile after changing the choke and let it get down to 72 degrees and when they tried to start it the choke flaps were closed, they tried to adjust that but somethings not right i think.

I thought the dial control on the choke was for setting when the choke comes on for depending on your climate and that the hidden screw behind and lower of the choke dial was for how long it stayed on.Am i wrong on this?
I also thought bending the linkage rod was how to set the opening for the flaps, i thought the screw on the linkage of the pull off was for something for the step controls, hmm i was thinking wrong there too.

 

Computer? haha, you're giving it too much credit.
Are you getting any codes? ie, check engine light lit up? Maybe you can lean up the carb, but I wouldn't worry about that yet.

Ok, no, I think you're wrong on the choke functionality, i've gotta link to my old post, I know i've posted this info before somewhere...

Choke, 3 settings:

Choke thermostat - turn it either way - That sets how much tension the bimetal strip puts on the choke. How warm it needs to be be before it'll come off. Once it's set, you should be able to just leave it. If I was in florida, i'd have this pretty loose, it doesn't need to be on choke very long. If I drove my car in the winter here, i'd leave it nice and tight, it'd live a lot of it's life on choke here. For most situations, the "right" setting will work all the time.

Fast idle screw, below the choke assembly - Fast/cold idle speed. The RPM that the motor will run at, when on choke.

Vacuum break - how much air is let in on a cold start. This is technically how rich/lean it'll be on a cold start. It's either right or wrong basically. If it fires up, then stalls, that means it's wrong. Once it's right, you'll know.

"bending" anything, is a bad idea. You should never need to bend the linkage rods, unless you've got a drastically different engine setup or something. I've never had to bend any rods.

 

Thanks Sonix,That helps me alot.
If you find the link you mentioned you posted before let me know, i'm always ready to learn something.
Got the car back today from the diagnostic machine and it showed the mixture control was lean and not funtioning al the time, 44 lean code.
They found a bad spark plug wire also.
They reset the idle and adjusted a mixture screw but said i need to replace the mixture control solenoid in the carb.
It's running pretty good right now but i'll see how long it lasts.

I'll check the settings like you said.
Any idea how to replace the MC solenoid in the carb.

 

I was searching for info on the mixture control and found this about choke adjusting on autozones help page, it says to bend choke rod .
I'm confused does the rod need to be bent or not.

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d80163b24.jsp

 

Well it didn't want to start this morning, it finally did but it was hard, and took two trys several minutes apart.
It runs good after it's running, just getting it to start cold and warm up to be ready to drive off.
I gotta check the settings and see where they put everything, maybe i shouldn't trust them over my own knowledge and the help from sonix and this board members.
It was around 30 degrees F here today.

 

hmm, i'm wondering if it's leaking fuel out of the well plugs....
One way to test that, after it's been sitting for a day or two, hold open the choke flap, and twist the throttle while looking down the bores. If you can get 3 shots from the accel pump it means you do NOT have leaking well plugs. If you can only get in one shot, then it's dry, you're hooped. Wait 5 seconds between shots, so the pump well can refill.


However! Don't do that just yet, If your mixture control is bad you'd better replace it. Better to replace known bad parts, before second guessing others. Napa should be able to get one for ~$70 or something. You just need to remove the air horn (top of 3 plates that make up a quadrajet), to get to the mixture control solenoid. I don't deal with cc-qjets, so don't ask me for advice on that.

Yea, I don't like to bend anything, I find that these rods typically don't bend themselves out of shape (pun intended), so it shouldn't need to be bent. But some manuals show that as THE method. I guess look for a 2nd or 3rd opinion on here, and go with the majority.

The plug wire was replaced right?
Did you adjust the screw on the vacuum break?

 

this morning it was low 20's, started great, went to school and it sat outside for about 7 hours and wouldn't start at all, it kinda sounded like it wanted to start a couple times but not very much.
I was stranded for about an hour and i kept trying the whole time off and on but it would never start.
I got a ride home and came back later with help and this time when pumping the gas pedel i didn't see any gas squirting even while cranking the engine.
I sprayed starter fluid in the carb while me help cranked the engine and after a long time of it trying to start i finally got it to run by continuing to spray fluid in till it ran on it's on.
Drove it home and it ran fine the whole time.
I'm thinking what the heck throw a new fuel pump on it and see if that solves it, they are cheap and it wouldn't hurt to know i have a new one.

Yes they replaced the spark plug wire and the idle is alot better now.
I haven't messed with any of the settings yet or the pull off screw.

I'm just not sure how i'm supposed to know when i have that screw set right?

I did notice today that they have the choke set very lean to the left ( about half way to the end )
It seemed like the choke flaps were really tight the whole time and that it wouldn't open the little gap like it needed with the pedel held down while cranking the engine.
It sure seems like a choke problem.

I don't have the money right now for the solenoid and was hoping that it only would mean i used more gas untill i save up some money for the replacement, I need it to start everytime more.
does that help any ?