Hi,
The clutch pedal on my 91 firebird formula feels very sort, and engages way at the bottom. This causes alot of grinding, especially when I am shifting into reverse. Usually I have to shift first into 1st gear, and then into reverse.
The car has had a new cenerforce dual friction clutch installed recently, and does not need to have any hydraulic fluid added. Id does not loose any fluid.
Is it possible to bleed the clutch hydraulic line? How can one do so? I can see that the line from the clutch master cylinder goes into the fire wall.
Please any suggestions to help me solve this would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Anatoly
91 WS6 formula 305 TPI
5 speed manual, 3.42 posi rear

 

Its a pita to bleed it from what I hear. Its also possible that the clutch gear and/or master/slave could be worn, or to have a bent pushrod or fork.

 

how recently is recent? on the new clutch? mine did that for a while til i beat the crap outta it witha 6k drop... well not really just had to drive it for a few days

 

The clutch was replaced within the last 1000 to 1500 miles.
also if I remove the reservoir cap, and take out the little rubber membrane inside and slowly press on the clutch, it feels alot firmer.

 

did you have a reputable shop do the new clutch?

really the clutch master and slave shouldnt be seperated sounds like the shop seperated them somehow didnt think it was possible to do and have it still work..well sorta... make sure your reservior is filled with DOT 3 brake fluid

and keep trying to pump it cause there is no other way to get the air out...

what happens when you pump the clutch quickly? does it feel soft?

 

Yes you can bleed it. Now would be a good time to upgrade to an aluminum slave cylinder (PM me for details) If not there is a small fitting on top of the slave cylinder.

There are numerous ways to do this. I have tried every single one.

Force bleeding.

Gravity bleeding.

Vacuum gun.

Gravity bleeding is in my opinion the best way. In a perfect world you want to do this on a bench with your whole hydraulic setup on the table. However this can be a little unrealistic.

This takes 2-3 people. This is how I do it.

Get a mason glass jar and fill it half way with DOT 3. Attach a hose from the slave fitting to the inside of the jar.

Have someone pump the clutch and hold it. Then break the fitting loose and watch all the air bubbles go into the jar.

Quickly close the fitting and repeat.

Do this until no more bubbles.


Some slave cylinders (plastic versions mostly) have no real fitting. It is more or less like a plug. In this case you will not connect a hose to it obviously. You will bleed it the same way except without a hose but this has the tendency to get really messy, and you cannot see bubbles.

Now would be a good time to upgrade the slave, the plastic ones do break, I have broken one myself. Parts stores sell polycarbonate (pretty much plastic) ones now but at least it isn't 20 years old. They have a bleeder valve though. Again, I also have access to aluminum ones. Most polycarbonate ones from the parts stores have lifetime warranties if you go that route. This also usually carry them instock.

Good luck. Be patient. This takes alot of time.

 

Air doesn't ordinarily just suddenly jump into the hydraulic system.

I'd bet money, as always, that it won't do a lick of good to bleed it.

Your description of symptoms matches the most common mis-assembly of the clutch, TO THE LAST DETAIL.

When you put it together, out of these 2 possibilities, which way did you do it?



See my signature for helpful troubleshooting advice.

 

Well,
I the clutch was replaced by the previous owner. He did not replace it himself and had someone alse replace it. I have no idea how that was done.
The clutch pedal feels a bit spongy. It gets a little bit worse with prolonged use when the car is hot. It is filled with DOT3 brake fluid, or so I believe.
How do I access the slave cylinder?
How much of a pain in the but is it to get to?
If this is similar to the way you bleed brakes, than I can do this as long as I can get to it.

 

If the clutch had not been assembled correctly as Sofakingdom mentions above, how much of job is it to re-assemble properly? What would a shop charge me to do that properly?
thanks for all your help

 

It's pretty easy to fix.

Takes about 10 seconds once the transmission is out.

So however fast you can R&R the trans, plus 10 seconds, that's how long it'll take.

I can do a T-5 R&R in my own car in less than 3 hours, drive-in (or push-in) to drive-out. Or, I could when I still had a T-5 in it. I had got REAL USED to doing that on an uncomfortably regular basis. Now that I have a T-56, I haven't had to mess with it near as much.

 

if you do attempt to bleed the cylinder as nelapse discribes do not engage the master cylinder without it in stalled as it will force the slave cylinder to fully extend and ruin the whole set up

 

Good thing I have a lift. I could remove and reinstall a t-5 (w/ clutch) in just 2 hours flat. That is the experiance you gain when you come across alot of problems, and have to remove the transmission 10 times literally.

Now I have a 700... nowhere as easy lol.


Take your time and you will be good. You do not even have to remove the bellhousing.

Remove 4 bolts then take out drive shaft.
remove 4 bolts and remove cross member
remove 4 bolts and remove shifter
remove 4 bolts and remove transmission.

Cinch!

goodluck

-Cale

 

What are the names of the parts that were not fitted correctly when the clutch was replaced?
Thanks,
Anatoly

 

torque arm!! good luck trying to remove the trans with the TA on.. and the speedo sending unit/cable.. haha sorry i had to add that..

oh ya, support the motor too.. dont wanna stress the motor mounts too much.. or crack your distributor.. or fan shroud..

 

pull your dizzy cap to be safe.

RE: T-5 R&R times. I have done it quick and i have had it take forever. once spent 3 days trying to do a clutch on my 2.8... damn pilot bushing..

if you have never done it before you should be able to get it done in one full day. however set aside a weekend incase you REALY screw somthing up.

 

shoulda did the grease and bolt method.. fill the hole with grease, stick the bolt in (should be almost a tight fit), whack with a rubber mallet or equivalent.. refill hole, and repeat pounding till desired results are evident..

 

So, did you get the car working?
Mine has started to do the same as yours, spongy clutch feeling, and gets softer when the car is ran hard.
Also get a squeal from I belive the TO bearing. low sounding when the clutch is out, louder when clutch is half way depressed and gone when fully depressed.

 

i am having the exact same problem, what did you do to fix it?

 

My clutch situation suddenly improved on its own. I got quoted by a transmission shop that it would cost about 400 Dollars to get the tranny out and fix the problem. The other day I was driving, and all of the sudden the clutch started engaging nice and smoothly. Maybe somehow thinks popped back in place.
On the TO bearing squeeling, get that fixed asap. My room mate had the same problem, and let it go for a little while, all of the sudden he had a big problem. His clutch ended up falling apart on him, and he had to get it replaced. It's a shame, because he only had it in less than two years. He has a chevy s10.
I guess I will continue driving the car the way it is and if things change I will let everyone know.

 

well i just put a dual friction in mine and i had about the same problem and it was the pivot ball not being adjusted correctly remember the tip of the ball needs to be 4.75 inches from the block other than that id bench bleed the hydraulics c if that helps

 

i bled the clutch, didnt help much
so i dropped the tranny and i put the TO bearing in wrong

works like a dream

 

At least you learned something. That is all that matters.