ok i finally got all my prioritys in order so there will be no more post of me asking what mill to build, i have inquired a 350 block with a 2pc rear main but i have no caps with it, so i need a list from one end to another of what it will take to make 500+ to the rear wheels of my iroc, what all do i need to do to the block?? also what head/cam/intake do i need? long tube or shortys, also what whould be the best way to build the bottom end?? should i buy a rotating assembly or make my own from diffrent brands also what fuel deliver should i go with? Ohh and i am useing a carbed motor

 

go buy another block....caps missing makes this one worthless. Next, 500 hp at the rear tires won't be possible without some sort of forced induction, whether a lot of nitrous, boost, etc.

 

most people are struggling to hit the 400rwhp mark.. but 500rwhp is possible N/A with a first gen small block.. not easily done but possible.. thats 600+hp at the flywheel/flexplate.. LS1 cars can make 500rwhp N/A on pump.. so an LS1 wouldnt be a bad idea.. gas mileage is good too..

like xpndbl3 said, get another block.. boost or nitrous would make it ALOT easier to reach your goal and then some..

 

You are going to need a big wallet.

 

can i not line bore the block or something, and I forgot to mention i was planning on a shot of juice, i should have been more specific, what will it take to get me in the 10 sec bracket, if i totally got everthing, from the weight and suspenion of my thirdgen, how much hp and torque will i need to make in order to propell me into the tens??

 

This couldnt be more from the truth. In fact if this is a 2 bolt block, its perfect, because in this hp range, splayed caps would be nice.

500hp to the rear wheels is in fact very possible without forced induction. It will not be cheap, but very possible. It is also not going to be very streetable.

Forced induction would make it alot easier. Plan on all forged everything, expensive heads with big intake runners, lots of cam, lots of stall, etc. Basically, what is your budget? If it is less than 10K you are probably kidding yourself.

Likewise, what all mods have been done to the car? I hope you dont plan on bolting this to a stock trans or rear diff. Its not gonna work. Also, without radical suspension mods, you will not get any of the power to the ground.

 

there are guys on here running in the high 10's with 388sbc's.. you just need at least 10.5:1 compression, a pretty big solid roller cam, AFR 220's or similar, ported vic jr., at least 830cfm carb, stout valvetrain, high stall, trans that can handle it, rear that can handle it, and some 28x10.5 slicks.. a 355 will not give you quite as much torque so a 383 would be better.. no replacement for displacement..

suspension is an iffy subject.. some people run completely stock suspension, some have fully upgraded suspension and both can get into the 12's, 11's, 10's and faster..

that should get you somewhere near high 10's.. this is very vague but its what you would need to get 10's..

 

i asked same question few days ago...cept i have the gm goodwrench 350 with 290hp and asked what i need to get it there...someone showed me this artical that gave a lot of great info...it may not be 500hp but it should help u get the idea of what u need to do...but i agree with 5678ta go 383 stroker its ur best option if ur not going forced induction...and u can make that kinda of power on a first gen block...its not uncommon and it can be streetable..its not easy nor cheap but it can be done..nothing is impossible..personally i would procharger it then there be no problem gettin the power you want...
----------
forgot the link

http://www.chevyasylum.com/chp/Welcome.html

 

Yea, a 383 stroker (or even longer stroke...) is the only feasible way to do that NA. Even that would be BARELY streetable. Plan on mixing your own gas eh?

Assuming it's a 2 bolt block, buy some splayed 4 bolt caps and have them installed. You probably don't need billet ones, but not the entry level cast iron. Steel would be a good middle ground.
Make sure you get the block sonic checked before you do anything past wiping the grime off it. Who knows, maybe it's already been punched out .040" and has very little left and the bores are scored. It's almost NEVER worth putting sleeves into an SBC. Especially a basic 350 with no main caps.

Use a short fill on the block. Have it torque plate honed (duh).
Blueprint it. Have every clearance measured, spec'ed and recorded. Balance the rotating assembly (obviously).

Forged steel crank, H beam rods, forged pistons. Shoot for 10.5:1 CR static. Use AL heads like AFR 210's or so. That'll let you run pump gas with a big cam. Something in the 240/250 range * .050". Solid, flat tappet or roller is your choice.
That'll get you close enough to your goal. That's about where streetability stops. I'd rather go 10.9 and be able to drive to a gas pump, and drive through a parking lot, rather than go 10.5 and buy 110 octane, drive it 50 miles a month tops, can only drive it on highways for brief periods before it overheats, can't drive it below 2500RPM etc etc. ie, i'd rather be driving it a BIT slower, than not at all.

Or i'd rather have a blower or a turbo and have the best of both worlds

 

thanks everyone for the replys, but i think i am getting a little to excited and ahead of my self. this car has to be able to go on saterday night cruise. I think i shoul just build a strong bottom end, with good heads and cam. and hope for 350+ hp. then spray it, this should get me into the tens if i use a big enough shot? how much u think i will need? as long as i can cruise on saterdays and still come close to the tens, this is what i want. ohh and i am upgradeing the drive line, i will either build the r4 or replace with a turbo400, i will probably build the r4. a guy i work with will make in holdup for cheap

 

No substitute for cubic inches...........you have to build a motor right? Then build a big motor. It won't need to work as hard to get you to where you want to be. How about this??? At 9.7:1 compression..pump gas with a warranty..$5000.00! Or this turn key! http://www.sdparts.com/product/SDZZ4...ateEngine.aspx Summit, Jegs they all sell complete engines. Drop it in and go!

 

check out T and L Engine Development in NC

i have a 408 stroker on order from them, 4340 crank, 4340 h beams, forged pistons, big dart heads, roller cam, built, broken in, dyno'ed and delivered to my door with ignition, carb, plugs and wires. for a shade over $6500, and well over 500 horsepower and torque.

never dealt with these guys before, but my dealings with the owner went very well, lloyd is very honest and knowledgeable a pleasure to deal with and very responsive to calls and e-mail. i can leave more, and better feedback once everything arrives, but that will be late April/early May

 

i serched for them but i couldn't find them, do u have a link??, i am bout temped to just go buy a 400 block from my local speed shop with work already done to it???

 

i was debating for awhile what to do with my 350 ive decided im going to build a 383 stroker...heres a few links that give some build ups of 383s and the power they got out of them...

scroll down and read....last one u have to scroll till u get to carbed motors then find 383...

http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...roducts_id=208

http://www.airflowresearch.com/chevy_dyno.php

this is prolly ur best source this guy took motors from all the chevy high performance and hot rod magazines and put on site

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7610/dyno.htm

just thought this may help ya decided what to do...

 

Take it to a machine shop with new caps, they will bolt down the caps and re-bore. Its possible to make 500 hp naturally aspirated (easy with a BB), most of your money will be spent on the heads and rotating assembly (to accomodate the high RPMs).

xpndbl3: please dont reply if you don't really know what you are talking about.

 

thanks for the link it is super helpful. but what kind of power and torque do i really need to break the tens??

 

well depends on a lot of things not just how much power...gear ratios...trans...tires...lots of things matter...you can try and use a online drag calc they are not 100% accurate...infact hot rod magazine said add about .2 to .4 to whatever the online calcs say and thats pretty close...one i use is

http://kowboy1.bananaman.com/xycool/dragperf.html

it just gives you a ruff idea...i figure for my car...i do believe on that calc when it says vehical power it means horsepower at the wheels...cuz i was using a few other drag calcs to try and get a average...anyways i figure for my car i need about 450-550hp...thing is...it dosnt calculate tq into it...u dont have to fill out all the parameters...just first two last two are just about gear ratios...me im not going for a pecific time like u are...just want a fun fast car...if i hit 11's ill be more then happy...if i hit 10's well the smile be even bigger...point is just have fun...11's are fast too you know...the z06 runs 11's...oh one more thing...what would help a lot to get to your goal...loose weight on the car...get a fiberglass hood, driveshaft, get low weighing wheels anything and everything specially rotational...less rotational weight you have means more power to the ground just do ur research and make sure the parts you are buying can handle the power..sorry abnout all the mistyping ive had a few beers...ok well maybe more then a few owell lol...u must have a drag track where u live if u are wanting 10's go down there when they are racing and ask the guys questions good place for info and watch them race see what they run then go ask what they got...

 

there are plenty of LT1 guys making 430whp on 355's and 383's. a 383 or 396 could make 500whp but it wont be that streetable.. definately a HOT street car for weekends.

forced induction you can run 600-700 whp and drive it everyday.

 

ive seen plenty of ppl rollin with 500 hp 383's and they are streetable...its all a matter of what cam your running...and how you drive...if ur dmoron and flooring it around corners sure its ganna go sideways...but if u know how to drive and keep it tame on the road...then u be fine...every motor is defferent...every car id different...even if they look the same...my point is yes there are 383s and 396s that are not streetable...could be just the driver..ive seen ppl driving 1000+ hp cars on road...u saying they are not streetable..??? seemed to be driving fine...if ur ganna drive like all these 16 yr old kids drive im sure ull have problems...i aint attackin no one here either lol...just tryin to point out that there are plenty of ppl driving cars others may say are not streetable without any problems

 

500hp is very attainable, VERY streetable, allows for pump gas AND....AND power brakes...how do I know???hmmmm and all this courtisey of all stock bottom end with a good set of heads, a great camshaft, and a matching drivetrain to complement it all. 1800+ passes down the 1/4, most in competition, 5-6K street miles in parades, car cruises, etc...no over heating...actually had a hard time getting it upto 180*, trans temps never went over 120* unless i really got stupid with it and lugged it down purposely. Did i mention it idles beautifully at 800rpm at the stop lights and never loaded up??

could've easy been low 10's with the laughing gas, but I did'nt want to press my luck with all cast parts down low

FWIW, this new 427sbc I'm building, from all the sims, all the shop owners that build spec motors say it will be in excess of 650hp and 600ftlb tq and should actually be knocking closer to 700hp, if not for some great deals I've run into this motor would've been in excess of $10K, but even with the good deals I will still have close to $6400 out of pocket in just the engine...that's not the carb, headers, ignition, water pump...I am reusing my old stuff for that. Will it be streetable...I will find out, it will be on the raged edge of needing race gas, if we had any E85 fuel around here, that is exactly what I would set it up for...but we dont, so I will have to wait

 

i still think a 406 would be better...more cubes the easier it will be to make more streetable power. i know 87 TA's 406 is a monster, trappin 127 on motor with the 6 speed. its pretty streetable too.

 

yea 11's whould be great to, i want some thing that I dont have to worry about gettin stomp on the street, the 11's whould give me good security, but i gonna shot more for streetableity and if it means 11's than thats it cause ill drive 40-50 miles a weekend at least just crusing and down to our local racein spot and to the track. I think using a 400 sbc as a base whould be a good move. but low 12's high 11 or faster on all motor whould be nice then I whould always have a shot of juice incase of emeginces (the few 10 sec stangs that run around here )

 

u dont need 500whp to get 11's

 

i know 500hp is not needed for 11s he was wanting to get to the 10s

me i just want 500+ hp and tq lol...i dont care what my 1/4 is long as its fast and crazy and fun as all can be...actaully 500 may not be enough for me i bet ill want more and more lol

19irocz89 - i like ur new idea...sounds like the best way to go man...just build a fun fast streetable car that wont get smoked by to many...but remember there will always be someone faster then the other...everyone is always trying to go faster its just human nature...we got a need for speed

 

It sounds like all this guy did was purchase a bare block. For the cost of an align bore and purchasing new caps, he might as well just pick up another block as he can't have more than $50 into this one already. Just stating that if he wants to build a solid foundation and is spouting off 500rwhp with no idea of what's going on he should research it a lot more. Most of the time these huge horsepower ideas are from guys who have no idea what it takes to get a 500rwhp sbc and just pick a number out of the air.

Also 99% of the time I have no idea of what's going on and I can prove it. But thanks for telling me to shut up.

 

Not ******* anybody personally on this thread directly, but Steve, if you've have'nt realized it by now, no matter what car it is; it has 500hp it can be a cavalier, regal, buddies dad's camaro/firebird/duster/chevelle, etc....alot of guys have 500hp...until they run it down the track or chasis dyno it and realize that tire smoking beast is nothing more than a noisey stocker LMAO!!! Yes, 500 is a magical number that gets thrown around loosely because people have no idea what true 500 ponies really is, the nice thing is anymore 500hp is pretty attainable and affordable....hell, when I read about the upgrades they did to the chevey 6.0L motor I bout crapped my drawers cheap, and realiable 500hp and will honestly probably be myt next cruiser project pwr plant.

Now that's funny stuff right there

 

thanks everyone for the replys. but i did pick 500 as a reason, the reason being is that 500 seems to be to me and this is just my opinion on what i have seen. but anything over 500 to 550 seems to be a tralier queen. not trying to offend anyone who has a 600+ horse street cruiser i just saying from the majority vote. but as far as the 350 block it was a gift, but now i see it whould be cheaper to a 400 and start with than machine the 350 to work.

thanks

 

All based on 350 blocks.

450 hp crate engine:
Zoops

Small valve 440 hp crate engine:
Edlebrock

GM 425 hp crate engine:
ZZ383

With some more improvements to the heads and valve train, i'm sure you can get 500 hp. Like that edlebrock is only running 1.94 valves, install 2.08's and do some porting to the intake tract...tuned cam...500 hp at the flywheel.

Or build it from scratch with parts that will give you 500 hp...dee dee deeee.

 

IMo, those crate engines are severly overpriced for what they are and what they put out, I had all of $3500 total in my 388. granted it was a stock bottom end and I never intended to juice it so it was fine, only thing to remember the only 2 components that make power are the heads and cam, so stick most of your budget into those items alone!!

FWIW with the 400 stock blocks, seems once you start getting over 475-500hp most machine shops and racers that have been there done that say not to waste your time/money since the blocks are weak and will give out, better off going aftermarket-cost more initally, but so does building an entire motor twice.

 

500hp on motor isnt hard to do, but 500 at the wheels requires alot more attention to detail. thats what the OP was looking for. 500whp in a auto is more like 600+ on motor. thats a STOUT combination that will need to rev high to get the power. i wouldnt want to drive that a whole lot on the street n/a. I agreet tho, you'll need to spend most of your money on the heads. get good heads and have them ported. its the only way. get them as close to 300cfm as u can cuz your gonna want that.

but i'd shoot for a solid 375 at the wheels and put 7psi to it or a 150shot. should get u close to 500whp.

 

how hard would it be to make 500hp N/A at the crank if you went with 427 cubes? what about 400?

i remeber one magazine did a 355 build that made over 400hp

 

pretty easy-with the right set of components, just becasue you have big cubic inch does'nt mean you will make big numbers, as an example my buddy has a 3200lb 80 malibu with a 496BBC, by all accounts he should be alot faster than me, but can only muster 11.30's-reasoning: crappey factory heads that even after they were professionaly ported do not flow the cfm required to produce big numbers, couple that with a cam waaay too big for his compression ratio, a so-so convertor and it all adds up to wasted time and money.

you dont start building an engine on a whim, your wasting time and money. figure out exactly what you want from it and base your components around that goal, that is the only way your going to spend smart money and do things once....even though initally you tell yourself I cant afford to buy this or that, so you chinch out....after awhile you'll be buying it anyways and having to replace the crutch part you bought initally...all goes back to doing it right hte first time I always preach about in play and with work.

With the latest heads on the market today, it's getting easier and easier to do big N/A numbers and still have streetable combinations....now if you were trying for these numbers 15-20yrs ago, then it would've been MUCH harder since typical heads back then flowed horribly compared to the new designs we have today.

 

Look at the little Hondas engines, they are putting out some pretty good HP to CI numbers, engineered to the max. Chyrsler's got the 2.7 liter V6 putting out 190 hp...doesn't seem like much, but its making about 1.15 hp per CI (translated to a 350 CI engine, is 400 hp). I did a complete rebuild on this 2.7 (its one of those "defective" 98+ Intrepid engines). Everything was textbook HiPo, Forged crank/rods, Crossbolted mains, Main girdle and scraper combo, 4 valve heads (with decent cast runner form).

I think the newer rustangs run 4 valve heads eh?

 

Pop open any performance catalog. World has sevral SB engines that put out those numbers N/A. I highly doubt they would give a 2Y/24K warrenty on an engine that see's 1/4 miles passes.

 

well since im back to reality, lets just forget the 500hp thing. i want a street car that will run mid-lows 12's consitanly N/A and when i wanna take it to the track for a all out brawl, i want it to hit 11's with a shot of nitrous. but the key is being able to drive it with out worrys. and drive on pump gas

i talk to a local speed shop and i chouldnt really understand him but he was saying a 350 block with 6" forged rods and forged pistons?? what does the make in cube size??

 

350
----------
The only way you increase cubic inch is changing the bore or the stroke, meaing they drill out the holes your pistons go up and down in to a bigger size, or they change the throw on the crank...350's use a 3.48" throw where as a 383 uses a 3.75" throw....more leverage, hence strokers being built for really good low end grunt, or using a short stroke for a really high rpm snot slinger.

If your buying all new, opt for the 3.75 crank, they cost just as much and you gained more cubie inch as well as grunt for getting the car up and going.

 

how is this so far. 350 bored .40, with 3.75 crank and 6" rods? what pistons do i need?? and what will these specs create?388? thanks

 

yes you can get low 12's on a 383 pretty easily. you can probly get away with forged pistons and cast rods/crank for a small shot.

.040 over on a 350 would make 385 with a 3.75 stroke. 388 is .060 over.
you can run a decent 230/236 cam with decent out of the box heads from trickflow/dart/brodix/afr and run a miniram or LT1 intake or even HSR should net around 450hp on motor and run low 12's easy. 100 shot will get u nicely into the 11's. this is the combo i may end up running

 

is this with 6" rods? also i am planning on runing carb, should that make it easier and cheaper to acheive my goal?

 

this motor combo WILL net you mid-low 12's.. but it uses a solid flat cam.. i know there are alot of other combo's out there but whatever.. this worked for me.. too bad it didnt stay together long enough for me to have fun with it..

383
10.76:1 speedpro forged flattops
5.7" rods
3.75" stroker crank
Comp 294S cam
1.5 roller rockers
fully ported and polished camelbacks cc'd to 64cc
--1.94/1.50 valves
edelbrock EPS manifold
edelbrock EPS 800cfm carb

there is a whole lot you can improve on this combo but it made some nice power.. with a 650cfm vac. sec. edelbrock AVS carb, it dyno'd at 316rwhp/359rwtq.. very very streetable.. with the 800carb, ran a 12.76 @107 first time out on 26x8.5 slicks.. 1.84ish 60ft killing them off the line and missed the 4th gear shift..

 

what made it come apart? oil pump faliure? how much did u build this combo for?

i was thinking this for my bottom end

scat--
4340 Forged Rotating Assembly
Forged/Flat Top Pistons
Internal Balance
6.000'' Rod
3.750'' Stoke
383 Cubic Inch
2-Pc Rear Seal
Compression Ratio
58cc Cyl. Head - 11.8:1
64cc Cyl. Head - 11.0:1
70cc Cyl. Head - 10.3:1

what whould be my best bet for heads/cam with this shortblock?

 

rod length have nothing to do with cubic inches at all...

 

yea i know but will 6" rods have clearence problems in a 350 block. do they just raise the compression or are they to make more low end grunt

i was thinkin longer stroke= more torque shorter stroke= higher rpms

 

A 6 inch rod is a bit easier on parts. It'll still have the same stroke as a 5.7 rod, the wrist pin is just moved higher in the piston. Also, the rod angle and piston dwell will change. As far as clearence, my block had to be massaged a little bit but I'm also running Eagle H-beam rods. The engine builder said it was too close for comfort so he opened up the area a bit. My engine has held up to 7500 rpms a few times and usually shift around 7000. Been doing that for over 3 years now.

 

i think im just gonna use 5.7 rods (h beam), forged 3.75 crank and pistons are unknown at the moment, i need to see if i can get that scat kit with 5.7 h beams

 

Sorry to steal the topic, but since you guys are in the talk, what do you think what kind of power my engine will put down, its almost done, just a pair of heads away, its a 383 with all forged internals, 8.3:1 cr, edelbrock super vic EFI, accel gen 6 dfi custom tuned, afr 210 eliminators, a cam with 236/248 duration 113lsa and 580ish lift, hooker 1 3/4 longtubes, 3.5" mufflex exhaust through spintech muffler, no cat. and 12-15psi of boost via procharger or paxton, intercooled. probably a 2 core.
I am hoping to run 10's. I have a somewhat built 800r4 and 10" 3000stall, probably will still blow up. and I need to save for my 9" with 3.7x gears. (running a 10 bolt 3.42 right now). I did get a fiberglass hood, and all spohn suspension, k member, control arms, etc... so its a little lighter, also no ac or any smog equipment at all. 315 street tires out back, will replace them with drag radials once everything is dialed in.

and for the topic, i ran 6" rods, i want my rotating assembly to last as long as possible, I am probably gonna easily see 7000-7500rpm out of this, as long as my valvetrain holds up. (stupid hyd. roller).

 

it was an oiling problem.. i must have either lost pressure or oil level was too low.. could be a combo of both.. the rods were pretty much seized to the pistons.. the crank was frozen still.. some bearings were burned to a thin black shell the thickness of a paper.. put some nice huge chips in the cylinder walls.. had it stayed together and gotten tuned with the right carb, i woulda hit 11's if it hooked up..

as for your motor, i would get a set of AFR 210 race-ready heads.. good for making serious power.. and if you dont mind, i would hit up a solid roller cam.. around the mid-upper .500" lift range.. and somewhere around 238*-255* duration @ .050".. with the right cam selection, you will go low 11's-high 10's..

if only i realized it before i built my current motor.. i chose the wrong combo and i'm paying for it.. i wanted more than what i had, not knowing the full potential it had.. now i have more than enough cam, good compression ratio, good intake and carb but just crap-**** heads.. had i gone with a set of AFR 210's i would be spinning my way to high 11's and not mid 12's..

 

MAKE SURE YOUR RODS ARE CLEARANCED FOR YOUR CAMSHAFT and/or get a "small base circle" cam.

 

generally i'd expect a n/a motor like that to put down something over 400whp but with 11 to 1 compression. that seems like a big cam for a blower but i have heard a blower does tame things down. 12-15psi is a fair amount of boost. i'm gonna say your in the neighborhood of 650whp. just my guess, it could be more or less, but i dont think much less

 

I wont attempt a guess at hp #'s since I know nothing of pwr adders, I just know they make cars fast The only thing that caught my attention was the overly big convertor, typically I could see a convertor in that stall range on an N/A motor since it needs to get into the pwr band asap, but if your running stock chasis stuff I would think it'd be better off having a much smaller stall-15-2000 range so you can get out and up before the full pwr comes in. This is just based off my buddies 434 with a D-1 in his 84 camaro, he was running his old N/A set-up and was slow, procharger told him to drop convertor down to 1500, which he did, and went instant 9.80's with literally no tune, previous from 10.40's with ole convertor and I cant remember what that stalled to.