Hello all,

I recently had a reman high-torque ministarter go south on me.

I had a friend at O'Reilly's pick up a new one, and I've had some problems with it. Doesn't really matter how cautious I am with installing it, it will work ok for about a day and then start grinding when I turn the key. I've checked what I can see of the flexplate for damaged teeth, and it is ok. I also pulled the new starter and checked it, and it's teeth seem ok. I'm don't know how many teeth are on my flexplate, but I'm thinking perhaps he grabbed the wrong one, as the old one wouldn't do this. Would having the wrong starter cause this? It may just be a bad spot on the flexplate, but really the flexplate looks to be in pretty good shape.

 

Just called O'Reilly's and talked to the guy, and he said it's the same starter that was on there before, so now I'm kinda confused as to what the problem is. It just seems like the starter teeth are too far away from the flexplate teeth to work well.

 

The flexplate you have is probably 153 tooth GM also uses 168 tooth. The teeth on the starter gear for 153 anf 168 are different. I haven't used a ministarter I don't knoe if they might need shims or not, Hopefully someone here will know for sure.

 

It's not the 153/168 tooth thing. The 2 flex plates are 1¼" different size, so there's NO POSSIBLE WAY that a starter with that mismatch would EVER have worked.

How many bolts do you have holding the starter on? Which bolts? What's the block casting # and date?

 

Yeah, after I did some more research I found out how far off the two are, it wouldn't work.

I've got 2 holding the starter in. The ministarter only has 2 holes for bolts. I'm going to get my digicam and get photos of everything (flexplate, starter, starter teeth) and I'll have em up in a few minutes.

It's an 3970010 casting 350, no idea on the date (1969-1980 according to MorTec's website). I acquired it through purchasing a 1985 Surburban it was installed in a few years back, but I don't think it's the factory motor/block. It had 305 heads and flat top pistons, neither of which would have come from the factory in 1985 (or ever, for the 305 heads) on a 350.

I uploaded pics of the flexplate, the bolts I'm using, and the starter itself.

The bolts have a nut on them because when I went from a regular starter to a mini, the bolts were too long, so I improvised and they've worked fine for the last year. And yes, there is oil all over the pan and underneath of the motor, lol.

 

Any ideas?

 

yeah go find the right bolts...

 

Basic information to know about flywheels/flexplates and starters.
Flywheels/Flexplates with two different diameters are used on Chevrolet small-block V8, big-block V8, and V6/90° engines. Large flywheels/flexplates are 14” in diameter, and have 168 teeth on the starter ring gear. Small diameter flywheels/flexplates are 12-3/4” in diameter and have 153 teeth on the starter ring gear. Flywheels are used on manual transmissions and flexplates are used on automatic transmissions.
The difference in flywheel/flexplate diameters requires two distinct starter housings. Starter noses used with large diameter flywheels/flexplates have two offset bolt holes; starters for small flywheels/flexplates have two bolt holes which are parallel to the back of the block. Most Chevrolet blocks are drilled for both types of starters. If you are changing the diameter of your Chevrolet’s flywheel/flexplate, you can convert your present starter to fit the new flywheel/flexplate by installing the appropriate starter nose, starter motor housing, found within each engine classification.

I found this info here under starters and parts. http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/fram...rts/index.html

Since it worked and then started making noise obviously it isn't a problem with the flexplate issue, the starter you are using has offset bolts. IIRC the GM starters with offset bolt holes I have seen normally have a brace on the motor end and secures it to the block. Could it be possible that normal vibration and the torque of the starter motor either loosen the bolts and let the starter twist enough in it's mount to not line up properly? Maybe the bolt with the nut is bottoming out before it gets tight enough allowing it to slightly turn.

I am obviously guessing here!! I could be outside the ballpark trying to find the gate. Maybe it is enough to give someone a better idea.

 

no i think you are right. more likely this starter is a different size.. not different starter just not the exact same as the other one and your little rig with the nuts... aint working... take a pic of the threads on that bolt close to the shank and get the ending thread of it so we can see if it is bottoming out

 

go to autozone and they sell in the help section the right bolts or a junk yard and if it needs the brace for the back the better. you might have to change your flexpate now.

 

The right bolts are hanging in the Help! aisle at O'Reilly's.

{note to self: don't count on the guys who work there to know what the stuff they sell is used for!!}

I doubt you need the brace; although it sometimes helps.

Let's just hope you don't have one of the blocks with The Problem, where the starter bolt holes are drilled too far from the crank. 70s blocks quite commonly have it.

 

I'm going to get new bolts tonight for it, I think that's a possibility.

However, I've thought this myself about perhaps the bolts were getting loose because of the nuts, but I've checked them after they've grinded, and they seem to be pretty freaking tight on there (I've used a lot of torque putting them in the last couple times), so it's kinda hard to say.

But, I don't know what else would cause this. That makes more sense than anything else so far.
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It really looks okay to me (at least I've seen worse), but I've got the pic up for you guys. I know some of you have a lot more experience with this kind of thing.

 

They have them for a ministarter? I checked at Pep Boys for em when I got the ministarter before this that I put on last year and couldn't find ones other than for a full size starter. The full size ones are about an inch too long.

 

The correct bolts have a knurled shank near the end where the threads are. They protrude about 1/4" into the block before the threads start. They positively locate the starter to the block as well as hold it in place.

From the picture that looks like the offset-bolt-pattern mini starter (for the 168 tooth flexplate). The bolts will be the same length, but as was mentioned above, they will be a different length than for a full-size starter. On offset bolt pattern starters there is typically no brace used on the front of the starter- just the 2 bolts.

When you get the new bolts shove them through the starter bolt holes. About 1/4" of the shank should stick through the far side before the threads start. That's how it should be if the bolts are the right ones.

Even with the right bolts there's no guarantee. It might require shimming. It might have a spur gear that's simply machined wrong and won't correctly engage the flexplate teeth (had that problem with 2 different starters over the last year) or any number of other things. Generally, if you're replacing like-for-like and the new one simply doesn't work like the old one you just got a bad rebuild that's got something wrong with it.

 

Tried new bolts, no better.

Yanked the starter again and activated the solenoid (while it was outside the car) out of curiousity. The gear with the teeth inside the starter has got some issue where it's not coming out all the way. Took it back, got a new one, should fix it. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

Success!

Flawless, quiet, reliable operation with the new unit.

The old one was noisy even when it worked.

Thanks much for the help!