what is mineral spirits? water?...LOL
I gotta go to AZ and get some brake cleaner to clean the china walls and some RTV and some oil...so I start on this ..cuase if it still not right Im going to pull the motor saturday.

 

haha, mineral spirits... Grab your horse and buggy and head on down to the Amish store, they can set you up with "mineral spirits"... Here in the 21st century I'd just use acetone, laquer thinner, or isopropyl alcohol... Depending on what you're doing...

Let us know if this works, i'm hoping it was just that one bad lifter... Here's hoping....

 

damnit!..I went all the way to AZ and forgot to get some kind of solvant to clean the lifters...I aint going back...what can I use? do they really have to be cleaned? why? I know they smell likes there some kind of solvant already on them..

Im just going to dip them in oil and be done with it?

 

Dust and debris sticks to the film of oil that the lifters are coated with to prevent rusting. The solvent is to clean the oil and accumulated crud away.

 

well hell the dam things look clean? I'll just go over them with some rubbing alcohol..thats all I got here at home.

well Im off to the garage to start this shindig!

 

Ok I'm in this thread late but two questions......do the new lifters collapse (or not collapse in this case) just like the lifters in question? And #2 I would install #7 lifters, pushrods, and rockers and check the cam with a dial indicator. Then install intake and exhaust on another cylinder and check those #'s. If you have a lobe taking a dump on you these #'s will show it. I would do this before reinstalling anything else. Just to eliminate the camshaft as a culprit. Also, pull the belt so the alt/ ps/waterpump aren't moving to see if the squeel is gone. Sorry if you already tried this....I didn't read every post.

 

ok lifters, rev kit, pushrods and rockers are on...Im doing the intake tomorrow. I would do it tonight so it can have time to set but for some reason I want to replace the oil pressure sending unit cause of the reading it was giving just to rule that out too but I cant since AZ is closed now. SO I gotta wait til the morning.

about the cam lobe, I dont have a dial indictor to do that with and why would a cam lobe going down cause the tapping sound? or for that matter the squeeking? and yes the new lifters were able to collapse or not collapse but I didnt want to test them out and mess something up....but maybe that because they were not pressurized with oil.

IF I get it all back together tomorrow and it still has that tapping or the squeeking noise then I'll know thats its deeper in and go ahead and pull it. I now have new lifters and the PR's and rockers all looked fine.
When the #7 rockers were removed the sound went away...and Im hoping it was the lifters....and Im thinking and correct me if Im wrong that if it was a bearing causing that tapping sound that wouldnt it still do it even when the rockers were removed cause the crank is still turning causing the #7 conecting rod to still move at its regular speed but just not under any combustion? is that why it would not have tapped? because no load?


oh and another thing, why when I redid the valve lash when this first started...why did the tapping stop but then came back after a few miles of driveing? and came back worse?..now when I did redo them I found the the #7's were loose and I just redid them to where they were tight.

 

sounds like you have a cam lobe going flat... would explain how the relash made the sound stop only to return shortly after... would also explain the abnormal wear patterns on those rollers... i would say to put everything back to gether without the rev kit at the moment... just to eliminate a source of pressure on the cam and lifters

 

The rev kit only adds about 20 lbs of open pressure on the lifter. Pretty insignificant compared to the open pressure of the valve spring.

 

lol!>...so ive got a $420 cam with the lobes going bad.....lifters that went bad, and a spun rod bearing?...whatelse?

 

what kind of rocker arms are you using? i ask because in the pics of the valve tips i thought i saw some unusual wear on the base of the stud on the exhaust valve

 

I am using CompCams Pro Magnum 1.52's and I was being sarcastic with my statement above.

 

I'm hoping for the best for you but my money is still on a spun bearing. Sorry bro, just my opinion. But like the other fellow said, "what can it reallty hurt from here." If it is spun then you will know right off as it warms up. Good luck with it either way. John

 

hey yo whats up?
Ive been gone all day and night, went with a friend of mine to get his Cobra tuned on the dyno and it took longer than expected....he ended up pullin 640HP 580Tq and on the juice went 703hp and 640tq with just a 75hit...nice fast ride!

Before I shipped the old lifters back I checked real good on the rollers and used my finger nail and YES I thought I was feeeling groves in the rollers, so I got a razor blade and used it to see it I could feel the grooves better an YES there were grooves in the rollers. So I DO have something in there that is not suppose to be.

HE> told me that the cam lobed should be OK cause the lifter roller are cast metal and the cam lobes should be billit and would take alot to goove them and the cast would groove long before the billit.

but anyways, I talked with a GM guy there that has built many 408 stroked LS1's and he explained alot to me ..and the bottom line was..
He told me DO NOT fire that car back up. Pull the motor drop the pan and either do it myself or take it somewhere and have them look at it. Low oil pressure starts with the mains, rod bearing then cam bearing..NOTHING else. That I have an issue there somewhere and the 10psi when hot is not normal.. ..He told me right now like it is worst case senerio was that I have a few bearing bad and can be fixed with just bearing replacements and maybe have the turn the crank and have it polished but if I fire the car back up I would do nothing but make it worse and with the money I have tied up in the motor it just is not worth the risk. Start with taking off all the rod caps and check the bearing then the main caps. long story short..I should find SOMETHING wrong especially with that squeeking sound I told him about, he says that is FOR SURE not normal.
WIth the amount of oil changed that have been run thru that car, like 6 oil changed THERE SHOULD NOT be ANY metal in there whatsoever and I told him about the pieces that I found and at first he told me that was normal with a new motor with the first oil change maybe 2..and thats when I told him ive done like 6....and he said NO there is bearing damage in there somewhere.

PULL THE MOTOR check it out and if nothing is wrong then all ive lost is TIME spent pulling it anf putting it back in. Way cheaper than if I fire it back up and make thing worst than they are now.

SO im pulling the motor this weekend.


he explained alot more to me and I got to much of it flooding my brain. LOL we talked for a good hr about it.

once I pull the motor and drop the pan. I'll post pictures for you of whats in there. SO stayed tuned.

 

Well bro. I told you to do that with your lifters and you swore up and down they were smooth.

It really sucks that you wasted more time. We all know that time is very valuable.

So you know what to do now.

I wish you luck.

-Cale

 

Well, since this thread doesn't have enough replys yet;
Nelapse, what did you do with Homer? I can't tell what your avatar is a picture of.
(everyone pray † while Wishmaster is pulling his engine ۩)

 

Homer? That is a sonagram of my unborn child dude.

 

That's it, I'm telling!!
Nelapse has a soft side!!
I had you confused with somebody that used Homer Simpson.
I don't feel so bad now for not recognizing that picture of a 3rd gen part.
So you gonna have an avatar like Madmax soon, huh?
Keep us posted on that when it happens. Cars may seem important but they won't come visit you in the nursing home.

 

Bro.. have you seen Madmax's picture....?

That a picture of his child that unfortunately passed away... With the dates on the picture

So you are asking me if I will have a picture like him?

I pray that I do not.

 

I couldn't see the other date. I guess it's time for the 21 inch monitor.
I'll be over here in the corner if anybody needs me...

 

From what I've read its a bunch of problems...
-You stated you had reasonable oil preassure when cold as soon as the bottem end got in the 150-200 area it would drop rapidly no? My opinon large then spec bearing clearences (.03-.035 range)

-Now if the oil preasure is fluctuating up and down say 65psi,15psi then to 30psi, etc.. your crank is creating air bubles in your oil. You said that your are running a 6qt pan, filled to its max, correct? run 1 qt and a half lower

As for pulling the motor good call. some one posted about no load being on #7 when you started it, and then the sound went away (the rubbing as well) I'd expect to find some interesting things going on with it in genarel. I give you my best hopes that the crank is safe,rod and sure as hell hope your piston is not cracked between the rings...

What a terrible sound to have in a rebuilt motor
I wish you luck

Regards
Skoda

 

Hi there,

Question from my side.
In the pictures of the top of the heads where you can see the marks or the rocker at the valve tip's.
I see there two marks, one is located at the normal position that face the rocker roller but the other is sifted by 30 or 45 degrees.

The question is:
Is it that normal that the valve rotates? (I don't think so)
Or did you some valve works where the valves where installed at a different position?
Here is the picture location.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-can-do-3.html
It is the #7

Regards,
Cobra289

 

I could believe something in the valvetrain.. But a exhaust gasket would be just a louder deep ticking, unlike a rod knock. It doesn't sound like the lifters aren't adjusted right..

I had an ARP Rocker stud pop before.. You wanna talk about noise.. Sounds almost like a rod going through the valve covers.

 

Actually sold a motor to a guy who tried to convince me that he found a hand full of nuts and bolts in the intake.. Found out that my kids were playing around that motor that was on an engine stand. Can happen and did.. I seen the bolts and they are specialized for Turbine Engines just like I use at work. I told him that I was doing a AGT1500 (Automatic Gas Turbine 1500 HP) / SBC conversion. Then I told him the truth.

 

Just to answer the question about why the ticking came back after you adjusted the valve lash, you have to replace the locking nut unless its a poly-lock. The locking nuts are basically one use only. Once it backs off its better to just replace it...especially for as cheap as they are.


Really sucks having the motor go like that...

 

ok!>.....heres some pictures of the oil pan....I just took it off an hr ago
I havent rolled the motor over yet to look at the rods or anything else, I'll do that when I get home from the gym. WHat should I do? pop all the rod caps off? doent matter huh? the whole motors gotta come apart?




looks nice huh! what is that stuff?

 

Looks like something didn't have enough clearance, so it decided to make more.

 

Ouch!!
I feel your pain.

Most of it looks like bearing material.

 

Hi there,
Gym? is not enough exercise for you been under the car for hours?

I see brass color there and the only thing that I can think that is from brass in an engine are the fittings, it is at the oil, so check the brass fitting of the oil pressure take off.

Perhaps some fitting was broke during the installation and did come at the oil passages.

Regards,
Cobra289

 

so whats next? pop all the rod caps off? ..will I know it when I see it?

 

Take the whole thing apart. You'll know it when you see it.

 

I'll get with you guys tonight when I get back.....I just went out there and checked the rods and wiggled them to see...and I know I should have clearnace side to side...but on #7 I was able to wiggle it up and down and side to side...

why do I have to take the whole motor apart? cause of all that metal in there? or for an other reason?

would this have mess up my oil pump? I can send that back if I need to...wouldnt the pickup protect the pump?

 

did you spill alot of anti freeze in the engine when you took it apart?

 

no, not that I know of? I drained the motor first, why? the fluid that is in the oil pan did smell like gas but I think thats because my fuel lines leakin in the motor when I jacked the car up..cause the oil drain the other night didnt have NO smell of gas.

 

I think that at this moment that you need to check the crank, how much did suffer this baby, if it looks OK than you can have a go with a renew bearing.
But that would be a short cut.
The oil pump will be protected at some extend, the small particles will pass the pickup screen and go inside the gears. Oil pump is cheap to take the change of been the next item.

An evaluation needs to be done and if you really love this engine, it should go out and have a total clean up and I mean all the oil galleries etc.

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Ooh, crap. #7 rod eh?
When you pull off that rod get a picture of it.
DON'T clean it, DON'T wipe it, remove the nuts, and lift. Then get a picture. This is gonna be sad

 

ahh i went though the same problem man it sucks.my dad rebuilt mine replace everything and just crank it today run like a brand new engine except for the water leaks, i hate freeze plugs that dont seal, and it has got to be the one u cant get to (right behind the tranny).but yeah take ur time and go though it slowly.

 

my dad had a nova that we built a 350 for, it was just a drag car so the motor had no break in, and about 15 passes down the track it developed a squeaking sound just like yours and it ended up being a spun rod bearing and we ended up having to tear everything apart and get the crank turned down, not so bad for us cause that was only our drag car, but good luck anyway...

 

That's a "penny", and it looks like this is going to cost you a pretty one. . .

I'll second the "pull it apart" recommendation. For one, you circulated metallic particles throughout your oiling system (I know there is a pickup screen and oil filter, but they only stop so much). For another, something caused this, and you really need to find out what it was.

 

ok, sorry Im late but I need to buy a 12point 7/16ths socket to get the rod bolts off...but here's the pictures, I took them as I pull the cap off....WTF?
ok, now how are bearing put in? are they is 2 pieces? Im new at the rod bearing part of the motor. can some one explain?
I know they are suppose to be smooth, right? and Im assuming they are not suppose to be in 2 pieces? or are they? one cut is clean like it was meant to be there and other is jagged like it snapped apart.

well heres the pictures, you tell me?

whats the hole in the crank journal? is that suppose to be there?

 

Yea, bearings are in halfs. Only the cam bearings are in one piece.
The parting line should be at the same point as the parting line of the rod cap.
Can you catch a fingernail on the crank journal? I'm guessing so...
The hole in the crank journal is how it pumps oil to the bearings, totally normal.

Can you get a close up of the one bearing that looks like it snapped? If the parting line of the bearing isn't where the cap is, then it "spun". See how there is a "tang" in the caps? that matches a tang on the bearing, holds it in place. If it's not in place then....

 

Very good pictures of a spun bearing. Notice no tangs on inserts .

 

Doesn't look like it's been getting any oil.

No need for the fingernail test. That journal is wiped out.

I have said that truly spun bearings are rare - well, here's one.

As you take more apart, something tells me you're going to find at least one more gone. Maybe a main bearing as well.

Or, the bearings weren't put in the rod correctly when the engine was assembled.

 

This is starting to add up eh Wishmaster? The very low oil pressure...

 

what is up with the #8 rod looks like it is huge on that journal...which side is that rod offset to a main journal or the rod journal

 

Im getting good at taking pictures. SOmeone should rename this thread cause im assuming its showing everyone what I spun bearing looks like and sounds like.

anyways, yeah the nook is gone on the #7 bearing. and I took #8 cap off just to see and heres what I found on that one. When I took the bolts out I had that grey looking matter all over my hands. You know the real fine metal dust and I was think WTH? so heres what I found when on #8..and it smelt burnt. All these are #8....look at the different color from the #7 bearing, why? they are both spun or just one burnt? and yeah those are chunks taken out of the inside...of the bearing on 8...

Sonix? so think my pump is ok?






hey? you know what? THIS JUST CAME TO ME... the first oil pump I had i it before I pull the motor out the second time to replace the flexplate... well when I replaced it with the new one I noticed that the old pump pickup was about 2" from the bottom of the pan ...thats why I replaced it...could that have cause this? and the damage was already done and just a matter of time when it finally went bad?


oh and no....I used a razor blade across the journals and didnt catch on anything...it was rough though

 

how big of an oil pan were you running?

but keep taking pics there will probably be more

 

Looking at your first pictures, you can see the #8 cap is discolored. Those puppies got hot.

Looks like you're in for some rod work, too.

 

well I guess we have figured out my bottom end is toast? eh?
so what is next? what should I do? how much work are we talking about or should I just buy a new stroker kit? which would be cheaper?

should I ust get a new crank and rods? how much is forged? should I go forged or keep what I got?

Im gonna be hittin this with a 100-150 shot

 

My condolences.

That #8 has been running hot, it was ready to join #7. The rod cap should be same color all the way across, basically silver.

You're gonna need to have those rods checked, they may have expanded especially the #7 since it obviously spun. The crank doesnt look real good either, in fact given the condition of the bearings... ugh.

Yea, good chance it ran dry before with the high pickup and thats when all the damage was done. I'd say all the bearings are gone, based on those 2 and the other information. Who built the motor and who put the deep pan on with a shallow pickup?

As for the parts, your choice. The crank may clean up with little work, I cant say just looking at it. They have small oversize bearings so if it was STD, may be able to run a slight oversize. The rods can be fixed, resize them. What they do is pull that alignment dowel, grind the mating faces, and hone the thing out to size. It'd be a lot cheaper than buying another set of those rods for sure. As you get into the motor you may find other damage, for sure the cam bearings are going to show signs as well. Hopefully the cylinder walls are ok.