305 TBI that cranks but won't start. My spark plug light deal thingy shows no spark. I can also see that neither fuel injector (CFI) is spraying fuel. Is there one thing that can be causing both of these issues?

 

Ignition.
ECU.
Fuses.
Combo thereof.

 

I had a similar condition on a car I bought a couple of years ago. It was an '89 Celebrity w/ 150+K on it. A fuse-able link had pulled out of it's connector that was hooked to the starter.
I know that a Celebrity isn't the same as a Camaro but, it could be something to look at. The Celebrity had no spark and the fuel pump didn't run. I fixed the fuse link and the car is still running today.

 

The ignition module in the distributor is probably the first place you ought to look. If the computer doesn't get a pulse signal from the ignition module, you won't get spark or fuel to the injectors.

 

Thanks for the replies so far.

Well I checked all fuses, and they're good. I checked the wiring around the starter, and that all looks fine. I had an extra ignition module, so I put that in and no difference...still cranks fine, but has no spark and no fuel coming from either injector. Have I narrowed it down to the ECM, or are there other things you'd all recommend checking before I get a different ECM...I see they're not cheap.

Oh, and I definitely thank you all for the help, I don't know much about troubleshooting engine problems.

 

 

Hmm, I must have stumped everyone with this last question...

 

Ripped
ECM has very little to do with initial (under 400 RPM) spark control.

When you are cranking does the tach needle wiggles? If not check the two wire harness from dizzy to coil. Make absolutely sure that you are getting 12 volts to the coil. (Gray, two pin connector that plugs over two wire harness)

Further checks -
1) Measure disconnect all connectors from coil. Measure primary and secondary coil windings. Primary should be around 0.3 to 0.5 Ohms and secondary around 10 kOhms.
2) Verify HV jumper between coil and dizzy hat is not open
3) Verify that dizzy hat center contact is still there and makes contact with rotor
4) Rotor edge is not gone or burned to look like a crispy critter.

//RF

 

I thought Red Devil said it could.


I have 3 plastic connections in the area I think you're talking about...One of them has 1 wire, another has 1 wire, and the third has 3 wires...and nothing is Gray...


I'm not sure about #1 and #2 above, but this is what I did as I have a lot of spare (but good) parts. I put in a different ignition module, a different rotor, a different coil (in cap), and a different distributor cap. Still get no spark and no fuel coming through either injector... With me replacing all of that does that cover all the test procedures you described?

 

OK, lets back track a bit

What year is your car?
You said you have a 305 TBI - do you have a small or large hat dizzy (i.e external square looking coil or older style HEI)?
Take air cleaner off - take a picture of your dizzy area so that we can walk through troubleshooting without second guessing what you have.

//RF

 

1982 Pontiac Trans Am Cross fire injection Sorry about the crappy cell phone pics.

 

Check the pickup coil in the distributor.

 

I see, according to my Haynes manual (which I should have burned long ago) I have to pull out the distributor to replace the pick-up coil, of course it doesn't say how to check it.

Can the coil be checked without pulling out the distributor?

 

Yes you can

Disconnect two pin connector from ignition module (easier done with white module removed) closest to front.

1) Get a DVM, set to measure resistance between either connector pin (green and white wires) to ground. If infinite than there is no short to ground.
2) You may need to turn engine by hand - get a breaker bar so that you can rock engine a bit (having a helper is a definite plus). Connect across the two pins of the connector. It should measure 500 to 1500 Ohms. If it measures near zero ohms or infinity - pickup coil is history. FSM calls for turning dizzy shaft while performing this test. When shaft is turned coil while produce electrical current which will cause resistance value to change. This makes sure that perm magnets are still there.


You can also test ignition coil while it is still attached to the dizzy cap. Turn it upside down so that you can see inside the cap while connector points toward you - see photo.

| | |
_ _

To measure primary coil windings set DVM test leads between the two outside contact pairs. Primary coil windings should be around 0.5 Ohms or their about. To measure secondary coil windings set DVM test leads between vertical center contact and carbon contact at the center of the cap. Depending on the coil type this can be anywhere between 6000 to 30,000 Ohms. Any other reading may indicate short or an open windings.

Also make sure that PINK #10 Gauge Wire is plugged into BAT terminal and not into TACH terminal!!!!

//RF

 

Ripped,
Unless I missed it somewhere, I haven't seen where you have checked for voltage (12v) at the distributor. If you don't have a volt meter, borrow one or get a cheapie from auto zone. If nothing else, find or make a test light to check for voltage.

 

You're correct, I did not check the voltage at the dist yet. I can't find a 2 pin gray connector as was previously mentioned. I was hoping with the pictures I posted someone could tell me where to put my leads to check it. (I do have a dig voltmeter) In that picture you can see on the far right in front there is a brown 1 wire connector--just behind that (can't see it in that picture) is a white 1 wire connector. Just to the left is that black 3 wire connector--can someone tell me which wires to put my leads on to check for 12 volts?

 

Ripped

Look for a single pin (typically) white housing connector with 10# Gauge Pink wire coming from a large wire loom. From your first picture I can see a brown connector connected into TACH terminal - what is the gauge and color of that wire??? Get a DVM measure voltage with ignition key in RUN position. That maybe the source of your problems as Zwrench mentioned!

//RF

 

The two pin gray connector was mentioned because we weren't aware you had the coil-in-cap HEI.
Check the larger of two single wires for voltage. As RFmaster said, make sure it is on the 'BAT' terminal (it appears to be connected to your 'TACH' terminal in your pic) when you reconnect it and the smaller wire is on the 'TACH' terminal.

 

Again, thank you guys for all this help. This is what I did--I put one lead on the pink (back white plastic connector) wire, the other on the front (black plastic connector) wire, turned the key to run and have 11.?? volts. My battery is a little drained at this point so I assume that's why I didn't have a full 12 volts. Since I also still have the air cleaner off, I was surprised to see 1 quick spray of gas from both injectors as soon as I turned the key to run. So I put everything back on and tried cranking and still no go... By that I mean other than that initial quick spray of gas no more gas sprays from the injectors. I didn't have a chance to put my spark plug light tester on the plugs, but I would assume just like before it won't flash meaning no spark.

What's next? Oh, I have to leave for about 2 hours real soon here but am gonna get back on this as soon as I get back home. So fire away with more tips, I'll read them and try them when I return.

BTW, does that 11.?? volts I got at the dist. rule out the pick-up coil being bad? Cause I haven't had a chance to check that yet.

Oh, Zwrench...Yep, the larger pink wire goes to BAT, the smaller one in the front goes to tach...

 

Battery voltage on the pink wire does not rule out your pick-up coil. It only rules out a bad fuse or fusible link.
You should probably now follow the good advice already posted by RFmaster.

Keep us posted!

 

I had another thought (I don't have those too often). If your battery is low check your cranking voltage. If it's below 10.6 V then you should charge it back up. The reason I mention this is because, if your spark tester is anything like mine, low voltage at the coil may not enable it to produce a hot enough spark to jump the gap.

 

In this business assume nothing and question everything.

OK enough of BS and let get to business. As Zwrench advised herein charge your battery. 11 volts is a bit low for my liking.
Check all battery connections, cables, clean all contacts- you know the drill.

A quick spurt from TB when you first power up is normal, however if ECM does not see DRP signal coming in from dizzy it will never fire injectors. DRP signal is generated by that white module inside the dizzy. That module contains a signal amplifier and couple of switches, together converting current generated by pickup coil into a voltage pulse for use by HEI coil and ECM to control pulses to injectors. Since you are not getting neither injectors nor spark you have to look closely at ignition module and pick up (reluctor coil) inside dizzy.
Perform coil check as outlined above, since you have swapped ignition modules before. We'll be here to help you along your journey

//RF

 

OK, every test checked out fine except for this. Granted I was doing this stuff alone, so I was not able to turn the engine by hand or turn the dizzy shaft while testing....but when I measure across the two connector pins I get an infinite number. That would mean my pick-up coil is bad right? Or do I really need to turn the engine/dizzy shaft to know for sure?

And I did completely charge my battery first.

 

Yes, looks like your pick-up coil is history - time to replace. Replacement of the pick-up coil involves removal of the dizzy. Before you remove dizzy it is recommended that you turn engine over (with breaker bar via crankshaft bolt) to have #1 Cyl near TDC firing position, timing mark on the balancer near 0 deg, and rotor lined up with #1 cyl post. With a felt tip marker mark #1 cyl post - rotor tip on the dizzy body. As you remove dizzy from engine the rotor will rotate counter clockwise about 30 degrees. Mark this second position as well. All of the above will make reinstallation of the dizzy a simple drop job.

Regarding actual repair - you have couple of options.
You can replace pick-up coil - these are available, but not all stores will carry it. Also, coil R&R will require dizzy disassembly - removing gear, R&R coil.
Pick up another dizzy from JY.
Aftermarket (accel, I think, makes 7 pin, full size HAT CCC dizzy)

You founded .

//RF

 

Wth infinity as a reading, I'd say you found your problem.

Since I came back to this thread a little late this point is moot but, you could turn the dist. body to line the reluctor up with the pickup coil. When you're working by yourself this is a good alternative to turning the engine by hand. With the cap off you can turn the dizzy quite a ways.

Come back to this thread when you get it replaced and let us know how you did!

 

Yep, thanks to you guys.

I'll hunt down some parts and have at it....I'm not going for any speed records though, cause I've never had my distributor out before...but I'll get it, and I know where to come back to if I have trouble. I'll keep you all informed of the outcome.

 

Alrighty, I got the pick-up coil out, but have to wait until Wednesday for the parts store to get one in. Anyway, here is a picture of something I noticed. See where I have the punch pointing at....there looks to be some sort of gasket with a real thin plastic type covering that has crumbled away. In fact parts of it are gone. My question is, what's this gasket for and do I need to replace it? Does it stop heat from transferring somewhere? Keep in mind I'm not trying (nor do I have the money) to mint up the car 100%, but if this is gonna cause a problem maybe I should do something about it while it's all taken apart. Whatcha think?

 

Ripped

According to one source, the crumbled stuff is part of grease seal that keeps oil from entering the electronics area. Check out this link:
http://www.kendrick-auto.com/ignition.htm
Look at 42100 - it has that seal as part of assembly

I have not looked at my dizzy this close - sorry, but I do not have pictures.
//RF

 

Just wanted to update you guys--IT'S ALIVE!!!! Got the pick-up coil, installed it, set the timing...the car fired right up and ran like a champ!

So, to everyone that responded to this thread with the great tips and info I thank you very much.