400 Build / Car Plans - Advice Needed
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7
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From: Indiana
Car: 1986 z28
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: auto
Axle/Gears: entirely stock
400 Build / Car Plans - Advice Needed
My camaro will soon be torn apart for a complete rebuild, both chassis and drivetrain. It will be my weekend project for the next year (or two
).
I have attached an excel file (can't attach an excel file directly, so I zipped it first) with all of the parts that I have decided on, manufacture, and cost. The one excel file has the suspension/chassis on one spreadsheet and the engine on the 2nd sheet.
I have done quite a bit of research and this is what I have come up with as the best parts for me. I was hoping to get some input on my choices from some experts here. The plan for the car is your typical street/strip car. It will be a daily driver with a trip to the strip twice a month. The "strip" in this case will be split about evenly between autocross and drag racing (since my dedicated autocross car got sold
). The suspension setup that I am after isn't to be the best in either one, but make it decent in both. Will be running drag radials or small slicks.
There are a few things people may question, so I figure I will explain them.
1. The compression I have chosen is a little low, at around 8.2-8.5. I wanted to keep it low for a couple of reasons. The first is the cheaper 87 octane. The 2nd, and biggest reason, is for the future upgrade of FI. I had originally speced this engine with a weiand 144 from the start, all forged components, splayed mains, ect. and ended up with a $10,000 price tag. With that being a little out of the budget for the engine, I backed it down to more reasonable levels. However, this does mean I will run less boost (4-5psi). Or does this sound like a waste of time and I should just bump the compression up, and if in the future I want to run FI just build another engine? The lack of a forged crank, rods, and good forged pistons (the pistons I have chosen are forged, but they are a little cheaper than the competition) makes me second guess a FI future.
2. I am not sure of a roller cam is worth it. Instead of a $250-$300 camshaft+lifter package, the cam+lifter package is $760, not counting the special roller timing set that has to be used. I like the roller cam for its long term wear properties as I want this engine to last a while, which is really the only reason I was looking at those.
I feel like this cam's specs is what I am looking for. However, I will call comp cams to ask their advice before I would order. I am just trying to get a feel myself for what I think I need before I do call.
3. Yes, I am wanting to keep the factory computer, distributor, and carb. I am doing this in the vain attempt of fuel economy mostly. In the not so distant future I will switch this car over to fuel injection. I am thinking or running Accel DFI, but I may switch over to a stock GM setup and burn chips. Not really decided, but fuel injection is in the future. The question then comes into whether or not my cam will support that easily.
4. A new block is really tempting. I will have around $900 in this block itself. For $600-$800 more a new motown block could be my foundation. When considering my old plan of all forged and FI, the motown block was on the list. This engine isn't going to be a powerhouse really, so I don't think I really need the aftermarket block. The only way I could justify it would be a nice stroker kit. I originally wanted 500HP. I know that isn't going to happen with this setup, but with the stroker kit, it could without the weiand...
5. Front suspension work comes later. I originally had planned for an entirely aftermarket front suspension/k-member, but they were the first to go when I went over budget. In the future? Probably. Not required to get her back on the road, so I am skipping it for now.
And advice/comments highly welcome.
).I have attached an excel file (can't attach an excel file directly, so I zipped it first) with all of the parts that I have decided on, manufacture, and cost. The one excel file has the suspension/chassis on one spreadsheet and the engine on the 2nd sheet.
I have done quite a bit of research and this is what I have come up with as the best parts for me. I was hoping to get some input on my choices from some experts here. The plan for the car is your typical street/strip car. It will be a daily driver with a trip to the strip twice a month. The "strip" in this case will be split about evenly between autocross and drag racing (since my dedicated autocross car got sold
). The suspension setup that I am after isn't to be the best in either one, but make it decent in both. Will be running drag radials or small slicks.There are a few things people may question, so I figure I will explain them.
1. The compression I have chosen is a little low, at around 8.2-8.5. I wanted to keep it low for a couple of reasons. The first is the cheaper 87 octane. The 2nd, and biggest reason, is for the future upgrade of FI. I had originally speced this engine with a weiand 144 from the start, all forged components, splayed mains, ect. and ended up with a $10,000 price tag. With that being a little out of the budget for the engine, I backed it down to more reasonable levels. However, this does mean I will run less boost (4-5psi). Or does this sound like a waste of time and I should just bump the compression up, and if in the future I want to run FI just build another engine? The lack of a forged crank, rods, and good forged pistons (the pistons I have chosen are forged, but they are a little cheaper than the competition) makes me second guess a FI future.
2. I am not sure of a roller cam is worth it. Instead of a $250-$300 camshaft+lifter package, the cam+lifter package is $760, not counting the special roller timing set that has to be used. I like the roller cam for its long term wear properties as I want this engine to last a while, which is really the only reason I was looking at those.
I feel like this cam's specs is what I am looking for. However, I will call comp cams to ask their advice before I would order. I am just trying to get a feel myself for what I think I need before I do call.
3. Yes, I am wanting to keep the factory computer, distributor, and carb. I am doing this in the vain attempt of fuel economy mostly. In the not so distant future I will switch this car over to fuel injection. I am thinking or running Accel DFI, but I may switch over to a stock GM setup and burn chips. Not really decided, but fuel injection is in the future. The question then comes into whether or not my cam will support that easily.
4. A new block is really tempting. I will have around $900 in this block itself. For $600-$800 more a new motown block could be my foundation. When considering my old plan of all forged and FI, the motown block was on the list. This engine isn't going to be a powerhouse really, so I don't think I really need the aftermarket block. The only way I could justify it would be a nice stroker kit. I originally wanted 500HP. I know that isn't going to happen with this setup, but with the stroker kit, it could without the weiand...
5. Front suspension work comes later. I originally had planned for an entirely aftermarket front suspension/k-member, but they were the first to go when I went over budget. In the future? Probably. Not required to get her back on the road, so I am skipping it for now.
And advice/comments highly welcome.
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From: Central Illiniois
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: 409 nitrous' small block
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Re: 400 Build / Car Plans - Advice Needed
My two cents, maybe worth what you pay for it.
1. Bump the compression to at least mid nines, if you're gonna run 6lbs of boost or less it'll be fine. People run that on stock motors all the time.
2. IMHO can't go wrong with a roller cam, but a flat tappet is a lot of times more cost effective, especially on a mild build.
3. If your EFI setup is flexible enough, you'll be able to tune it for whatever cam.
4. Stock blocks can handle lots more power than most people think. I wouldn't stress out about that too much unless you start running some serious boost, nitrous, or HP.
5. Unless you're goin all out racing, go easy here, you can improve handling for not a whole lot of money, and our cars handle pretty well already, at least for daily street use.
Advice: If you're really going to spend money on this combo in the future spend a little extra now to keep from doing things twice. Build a good strong short block so that when you hit it with more power later it will handle it. If you build a good block and use a good cam, anything else can be added later withouth yanking the motor, thats reason enough to spend some extra money now in my book. You might shop around for a crate motor, you can get a pretty rockin one for way less than your 10k number.
Oh and btw, your file didn't work for me so wasn't able to look at it.
1. Bump the compression to at least mid nines, if you're gonna run 6lbs of boost or less it'll be fine. People run that on stock motors all the time.
2. IMHO can't go wrong with a roller cam, but a flat tappet is a lot of times more cost effective, especially on a mild build.
3. If your EFI setup is flexible enough, you'll be able to tune it for whatever cam.
4. Stock blocks can handle lots more power than most people think. I wouldn't stress out about that too much unless you start running some serious boost, nitrous, or HP.
5. Unless you're goin all out racing, go easy here, you can improve handling for not a whole lot of money, and our cars handle pretty well already, at least for daily street use.
Advice: If you're really going to spend money on this combo in the future spend a little extra now to keep from doing things twice. Build a good strong short block so that when you hit it with more power later it will handle it. If you build a good block and use a good cam, anything else can be added later withouth yanking the motor, thats reason enough to spend some extra money now in my book. You might shop around for a crate motor, you can get a pretty rockin one for way less than your 10k number.
Oh and btw, your file didn't work for me so wasn't able to look at it.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
Car: 1986 z28
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: auto
Axle/Gears: entirely stock
Re: 400 Build / Car Plans - Advice Needed
The cost of the engine as priced (no shopping around, just first place I found for comparison purposes) is $6,000. Two expensive parts are the AFR heads and cam.
Well, the thought behind dropping the compression was to run as much boost as possible. The question now comes down to how much I can run without hurting the block/rotating assembly. That would be the question I have to answer when finally deciding the compression ratio. The more I think about it, the more I do agree that a compression bump wouldn't hurt.
My EFI tuning abilities aren't top notch. The learning curve there will probably be steep.
My issue on the block is the cheapness of the aftermarket blocks. Although not planned, if I would get splayed mains, it would be pocket change more just to get the aftermarke block to begin with. Do I need splayed mains? I don't think so. I can't see my combination putting out that much power.
The handling capabilities is one of the biggest reasons I bought this car over the competition. Running aftermarket front end components is mainly for weight reduction. The same effect as running a lightened doghouse, which is also a strong possibility for me.
Checked the file and it does still work, even on a different computer. Thanks for your responses.
Well, the thought behind dropping the compression was to run as much boost as possible. The question now comes down to how much I can run without hurting the block/rotating assembly. That would be the question I have to answer when finally deciding the compression ratio. The more I think about it, the more I do agree that a compression bump wouldn't hurt.
My EFI tuning abilities aren't top notch. The learning curve there will probably be steep.
My issue on the block is the cheapness of the aftermarket blocks. Although not planned, if I would get splayed mains, it would be pocket change more just to get the aftermarke block to begin with. Do I need splayed mains? I don't think so. I can't see my combination putting out that much power.
The handling capabilities is one of the biggest reasons I bought this car over the competition. Running aftermarket front end components is mainly for weight reduction. The same effect as running a lightened doghouse, which is also a strong possibility for me.
Checked the file and it does still work, even on a different computer. Thanks for your responses.
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