L98 Uh_Oh

Wassup TGO,

Just picked up a 1980 Trans Am for some work I did for a buddy. Body is rock solid, interior immaculate, and runs great. T-tops, shaker hood, honeycomb/snowflake rims, the whole nine yards. Only prob is engine is a 301 Quadrajunk. First off, I was wondering what "Generation" this GM would be?

Already planning the engine swap for this car. Another buddy of mine who demo derby's a lot, has a few different Chevy 350's sitting around his garage. He also has a 327 that we ran the numbers on and it came up like a 196? something, coming out of (he thinks) a corvette with over 300 something horsepower stock. It has funny shaped exhaust manifolds.

My next question is should I go for one of the 350's (would have to be rebuilt), or go for the 327 (also would be rebuilt)? Which would be a better platform to start. Wanting to go after some pretty serious horsepower. I do know one or two of those 350's have a four bolt main. Don't know about the 327. I would assume two bolt.

...but I have heard people talk about 327's before and never anything bad. Whats the skinny on the 327?

Thanks for any info...

L98

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

go 350. more torque and more power due to more cubes. much more aftermarket support. for most power levels, 2 bolt main block will be fine, just use ARP hardware.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

That 1980 Trans-Am is HEAVY and has TALL gearing in stock form. I would be looking to put a 3.75" stroke crank in one of the 4-bolt 350 blocks to make a 383. Some good heads and I would never look back.

ljnowell

It doesnt matter how much hp it had stock, its getting rebuilt. Also, I doubt it had 300 hp, you would be surprised to see just how much some of those didnt make.

All things equal, a 350 will make more power 10 times out of 10 than a 327. Really it doesnt matter 4 or 2 bolt, as the factory configuration really wasnt all that great as far as high RPMs go.

L98 Uh_Oh

Well, I think it sounds unanimous. The 350. Does anyone know what "Generation" this GM would be?

Also, 3.75 crank. Is that some special crank or one from like a 305 or 400? I guess what I am asking is, is a 3.75 crank easily found?

Please forgive my ignorance. Kinda new to this horsepower thing. Been driving a 4 or 6 banger for last 10 years and forgot what power feels like.

I just replaced the head gaskets on my GTA and instantly fell in love. Not so much with the car, but, you know what I am talking about...lol Horsepower!! Never got to drive it until I replaced them. Then winter hit and is parked until spring. Gives me time to start on the new project...

Thanks again for any info...

L98

Apeiron

Generation I, since 1955.

A 3.75" crank originally came in a 400. Nobody would use one of those to build anything today, they'd buy an aftermarket one.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Your GM 1980 Camaro is a 2nd Gen car, and the engine is a generation 1 (there weren't really "generations" with engines, there was SBC, then LT, then LS, but I suppose you could refer to those as generations...)

And yes, a "383 rotating kit" is what you want to be looking for.

Just an aside, the 327's funny exhaust is commonly called "rams horns" (if we're talking about the same thing). They are great in derby's where people flip them upside-down and let it shoot fireballs upwards. Crowds love it. You couldn't care less about it in your 2nd gen though.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Ah, yes, how to win friends and influence people, especially when you're asking for a favor. . .

The last part of your username pretty much describes my reaction when I saw the title of this thread. But, as is so often stated, engines are basically air pumps. Generally speaking, the more air (and fuel) you pump through them, the more power they make. The one sure way to make the pump pump more air is to make the pump bigger. Last time I checked, 350 was bigger than 327, and 383 was bigger than 350.

The "serious" part requires good parts. You can be pretty sure than any of the heads on any of those derby engines laying around are laughable.

ploegi

The 1980 Trans am is a Second Gen F body. Hence, it will have a Pontiac motor. You will need to change the motor mounts, and also, get a different trans if you want to put a chevy engine in there.

ljnowell

unless he has a dual bolt pattern trans. doubtful though.

ploegi

Them guys was pretty rare.... and I never found one in an fbody......

L98 Uh_Oh

Well, I go get the T/A today. Couple minor problems are it has to be out of the shop today. Second, its supposed to be 6 degrees for the high today and the cars t-tops are in the previous owners garage, and he is gone for the weekend. Don't know why they wouldn't be on the car... Doh!!!

As for transmission/engine mounts, I will have to wait till I get car home and in garage before I examine further. Even then, all I have for heat in my 32'x48' half insulated garage is a 110,000 btu torpedo heater. I just got it and haven't tried it out on a cold day to see if it will keep garage somewhat warm enough to stay out there and work. Not the best weekend for all this to be going down. 6 degrees is down right NASTY weather!!!

Suck it up sissy! Am I a man or a mouse? Wife is a little ticked off though. I won't go out and scrape ice off her window on a 30 degree day, but I will freeze to death to get a car. Car is in a little town about 45 minutes away. As she would say, "A typical man"!...lol

Last, the 350 sitting in friends garage. If I grab a four bolt, punch it out .030 over, get a 3.75 crank, maybe some higher compression pistons, good set of heads, high rise intake, and maybe a 750 or 850 double pump carburetor, how many horses do you think I would be looking at? Or will this combo even work???

Thanks again...

L98

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

The nice thing about second gens is the parts compatibility. Specifically things like a tranny. You can pick up an SBC bellhousing TH350 anywhere, and it'll fit in. no worries about torque arms and whatnot.
I'm not sure about the pontiac 301->350 as far as engine mounts go. I think that's an easy fix.
However this isn't a 2nd gen forum so it's not the best place to ask those questions. Nastyz28.com is a great site for that.
Yes, your last engine combo mentioned would work. You don't need high compression pistons, you need 383 pistons. The extra stroke gives you high compression without the need for a flat top, or even a dome. You'll probably do best with a moderate dish.

You can get anywhere from 300-500+HP out of a 383, depends on how mild->wild you want it.

Apeiron ran a 300RWHP 383 with a mild combo a few years back, and we've got IHI and Car_fixer (I think) with upwards of 700-800HP 383's. All about the parts in it. A 375HP version would be pretty fun, without being a PITA to drive.

haha, that's what I use in my garage, except I only have the 30,000-80,000 BTU radiant one. Make sure you crack the door for some airflow, those heaters will consume all your air.

L98 Uh_Oh

Hey thanks for that info Sonix,

Got car home with no problems. Little chilly though. I can tell you one thing, car is a POOCH! Guy had new brakes on all corners installed, and true duel exhaust all put on less than a month ago. Silly thing is, car sounds pretty mean. Until you press the gas down and not much happens...lol

As for the heater consuming all my air? I don't think that should be a problem. My garage is 32x48 with 10 foot ceilings and a 6/12 pitch roof. Lots of room for air. I know that can happen though.

Long long time ago I went to a friends house where we were getting ready for a job. It was winter and when we got to his house in the morning, we meet in his garage for coffee, which I don't drink. I just huddled in front of the torpedo heater for warmth. Next thing I know is I am waking up with a sore mouth. Turns out, I passed out, fell straight on face, hit chin on the concrete and almost bit my tung clean off. But his garage was a one car, and I was directly in front of heater for I'd say 10-15 minutes.

Anyway, getting back to subject. The 383 is sounding like the winner in my book. Just out of curiosity, Jegs, Summit, or someplace like that sell 3.75 cranks? Couldn't find either of my Jegs or Summit mags. If they do, how much am I looking at just for the crank? Also, do they sell the whole combo in a kit?

Thanks again...

L98

L98 Uh_Oh

Ok, never mind my last question. Just went to Jegs online and found more cranks than I can handle tonight. First ones I looked at were the forged. Umm, like 600 bucks. Ouch! Cast steel for little under 200. Sounds more in my price range. Plus, Im not looking to build something for the track. Just a "Saturday night" special.

My new question is, do they sell longer rods that would make up the 3.75 difference? I mean, use the stock crank with 3.25 (I think), and buy longer rods to make up that half inch? Or are there other differences?

This old timer I was talking to a while back was saying back in the old days, they would take off the heads and mill the surface down, increasing compression/power. I know this would be the hillbilly way of getting more compression, but you ever heard of doing this to add horsepower?

Hoping tomorrow is a little warmer. Wanting to go outside and play with new toy...lol

Thanks again.

L98

Apeiron

Normally when building a 383 (or any other engine), you get the crank with the stroke you want, whatever length rod you want (usually 5.7"), and then buy whatever pistons you need to match both the stroke and rod length.

Decking the block is usually done to make sure the deck surface is flat and parallel, if it needs it. It can help increase compression slightly, but probably a greater benefit is that it allows you to get a perfect quench height.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I was going to say just watch out - if you can smell the propane, then it's leaking. I have an attached double garage, so I crack my door open 6" or so, and leave the door into the house open, then I feel better.

And yea, most people just deck the heads to get them flat so they'll hold a gasket, but if need be you can deck them more to get the CR up, and increase the HP that way.
You won't need to worry about that, stroker motors make lots of compression due to the longer stroke, you're usually worried about too much CR.

And yea, $189 cast crank, basic $200ish rods, and $150-200 hyper pistons will do you for 400HP, which is enough to be *fun* by my standards. With machine work if you can build the bottom end for $1000 you're laughing.

Those cars had really awesome exhaust setups in my opinion. The dual mufflers with dual tips had a really slick look to them. I almost bought a '79 TA with the 403, but on the test drive it was SO LAZY that I didn't go through with it.
Unfortunately you won't get to re-use much if anything from the 301, except the carb of course

L98 Uh_Oh

My heater I just picked up is a kerosene type. Don't think that would make any difference. As for compression, I would prefer more. Being it will not be a daily driver. I realize the more the CR the higher octane gas I would need. I used to race dirtbikes and would always run leaded race gas in my 2 stroke bikes. Loved that smell. A friend and I used to go in together on them and another friend of mine owns a Marathon gas station and gets real good deals on Sunoco 108 octane. He has one of those sled pulling trucks with like a 50k dollar engine. Point being, if I had to run a mix of regular and leaded gas, would be no problem.

I would run race gas purely for the exhaust smell...lol One thing I heard about race gas. Been told you can run race gas in a low compression engine, but cannot run regular 89 - 92 octane in high compression applications. This true?

Apeiron

You can use any gas you want in a low compression engine, if you don't mind wasting your money. A high compression engine will need high octane gas or else you'll have detonation problems.

3gen88firebird

dude chevy motors bolt right up with fire birds, that y they have 350's or 305's get your facts right bro. they come stock with Chevy engines.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Do a 327, less cubic inches is always faster!

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Yah! Wait, No. Go 350.

Guest

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...t-fiction.html

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Go 350, get it bored .30 over then just buy an engine rebuild kit that will give you all the parts to make it a 383 with about 400-430 hp with proper chip tuning

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You bumped a 3 year old post to say something wrong.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

And it was a great first post for him.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

The 327, and the 350 are both 4.00" small blocks. A 350 is a stroked out 327.

gwarren007

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, I would have recommended he skip the chevy motors and go with a pontiac 400 or 455.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

I think all pontiac v8 engines are the same size block, so this makes sense to me.