Hello everyone at thirdgen.

I have a feeling I will become a reg here so I'd like to introduce myself and start off on the right foot.

My name is Rick, and I have just acquired my first (As in bought myself not driven) car which is an 85 Z28 Camaro.

Overall, this car is in excellent condition given that I am the 5th owner and it has 140,000. It could use a bit of interior work, but it is in overall good enough shape to take a date out in. The only thing really wrong with the exterior minus a new paint job, is that it has a dent in each of the front fenders which can be easily fixed/replaced.

Two days after I got her, I changed the oil with Mobile 1 Synth 5w30, topped off the trans, changed the differential fluid, put on new wipers, removed the POS interstate battery and threw in a duralast gold and washed/waxed her.

She is currently in the shop for further examination but there are a few apparent issues which I am hoping are not that serious, but wanted to get a few opinions so I could prepare myself the possible bad news.

- There is a leak in the Manifold. The guy I bought it from SAID it was just loose and needed to be tightened up, but I know it could be anything from a bad gasket to a cracked manifold. Worst case scenario, what would this run?


- The engine is burning rich. If you have the windows rolled down or are standing outisde of the car you suddenly get the feeling your standing in the middle of a gas station. The car has an aftermarket fuel pump installed but I doubt it would play a role in this. The guy I bought it from says the EGR valve is going bad and needs replacing which I am hoping is the culprit. If you get out of the car while It's running and look at the exhaust pipes, you can feel air and warmth moving from both but the only one with visible smoke is the left one. The car has a (flowmaster?) muffler installed and the exhaust is currently joined with a Y pipe. Gonna get it split off soon.

- There is something strange about the parking brake/rear end. OK. this goes to show that just because you know how to do a job, doesn't mean you know how to do it right. The car has a B&M megashifter installed, which I bet my next paycheck I will be replacing next month. The guy installed it up. the only gears selectable are R N and D. If I try to select 3 2 or 1, I have to apply so much force to the shifter I'm afraid I'm going to rip it straight from the console, so I doubt these gears are even selectable at all. Also, the car DOES NOT engage into park. If your in R and try to move the shifter up into P, there isn't much, if any of a detectable "bump" from the shifter. If you have it in P and let off the brake, the car rolls. I think the shifter not engaging P properly, coupled with the fact that I discovered the park lock cable on the right side of the shifter was cut when I lifted the boot (obvious culprit) is why the car rolls. To keep the car still, you must apply the parking brake, and even sometimes after that letting off the brake a constant creaking sound, along with a very low toned and subtle 'thump thump thump' can be hearing from the rear end as the car rolls forward. Sometimes it stops on the first try, but usually I have to depress the brake a few times and in extrme cases, back the car out and repark. Also I'm not sure what roll this plays but there is a rubber hose about the size of a large ziti hanging down where the footbrake is and has a bolt screwed into the end of it. A whoosing air sound can be heard coming from it whenever the foot brake is depressed. Also attempting to push the car from behind with minimal force while the parking brake is engaged will allow to to MOVE the car as the constant creaking noise from the rear end returns. The guy even FORGOT to install the gear indicator onto the shifter, so you actually have no way of knowing what gear you are in. Also, the shifter seems very stiff. I would almost expect this from a shifter of this quality/durability, except I don't think it should be so stiff that when you are in R and try to select neutral, you have to apply a sufficient enough amount of force that often times you skip right past neutral and put the car into D. Just my 2 cents. For reference the trans is a rebuilt 700R4 with a shift kit installed.

- The rear end creaks. This one has actually got me concerned more than any of the above. Aside from the parking brake creak, there are other times when an audible but brief creak can be heard coming from the rear end
. Good example of this are when you shift gears and take off from a dead stop. For example if I am in R from backing out, and put the car into D, when you feel the trans jolt the car into gear there is a creak emitted from the rear end. It does this even worse when you are shifting from N or D to R. Or not often but sometimes when you are at a stop and touch the gas pedal just enough to make the car move, another brief creak can be heard emitted from the rear end.

- Theres is a WOT shift issue. I have had zero problems from the trans so far so I am not that worried, but the car does not like to shift at WOT. If you have the accelerator depressed all the way when the car gets to the point of shift the engine just sits there and redlines. In order for the car to shift, you must release the pedal very briefly like you were going to shift into the next gear in a manual, then let er rip again. a jolt can be felt as the trans slams into the next gear and away you go.



Any opinions are appreciated. I'm just trying to get a general idea of what to expect when I recieve a call back from the shop.

Overall, I don't regret buying her. I've always wanted a project car. I am a "Young Jedi" when it comes to car work and restoration but I've studying this and that here and there. In a year or two I want to do a T5/T6 and a 350 swap. So I believe that I came to the right place

 

Welcome. Congrats on your first car. My camaro was also my first car. It is also the only one I have right now. As long as you love your car and are willing to put that love into it, it will be around for a long time (in my experience). Mine now has over 500,000 miles on it and I haul my 3 kids in it. I am certainly not a mechanic but I do work on my car.

Mine also burns rich but I have yet to find out why. Truth be told I have never really set out to find out, I simply accepted it as fact. I doubt it has to do with your fuel pump though (I have replaced mine before and it didn't make a difference, was a royal pain though). I have also replaced my EGR but if your check engine light isn't on or the computer throwing a code then once again I would doubt it is the culprit. Try checking your air filter, O2 sensor, fuel pressure, MAP sensor, and TPS. That gives you a good start.

As far as the transmission goes, I don't know much there. I have swapped mine out when it went down but it was pull and plug. I would suggest servicing it and checking the mount. A busted mount could also be the cause of the car jolting into gear. Been there done that Also I would recommend servicing your rear end. I neglected this not realizing it was a matter of up keep and yeah. That sucked. Also check your rear brakes. Never hurts right?

 

I forgot to mention. The check engine light DOES come on. it doesn't do it from a cold start. But once the car has been on a few minutes it will light up. It randomly goes off for short period of time while I'm driving also. When I asked the seller what the deal was, he said it was because the engine had been taken out of the car before and it is "just about impossible to get it to turn off now that it has been taken out". That's BS. Common sense will tell you if you the manufacturer can get it without screwing up a sensor there HAS to be a right way to do it. The car hasn't given me any grief or major problems so far and I've put a few hundred miles on it since I bought it. I just don't want to neglect a small problem and have it turn into a big one later down the road.

The air filters are clean. In fact I took them into autozone to obtain a cleaning kit after I bought the car and the guy was like, "These aren't even near dirty". I pulled the fins apart and sure enough you could see a nice red color. There was only a surface amount of gunk on the tips of the fins.

The fuel pressure gets out of whack if I allow the car to drop below 1/4 tank. I was talking to a guy at my work and he said this is because of the aftermarket fuel pump and that letting the car get below a 1/4 tank can actually damage it because of the fumes that build up. Whenever I go to the station to fill up at a 1/4 marker, I always have to twist the cap off slowly and you can hear a hissing sound as the pressure releases from the tank.


Wow. So the car jolting into gear is actually a problem? The last car I drove was a 98 Cavalier and it gave a small subtle jerk, but I figured the actual jolt was normal given the power of a 700R4 vs whatever is in a 98 cavalier.

 

I would say to start with pulling the codes then.

 

How do I go about doing that

 

OK so I am assuming you don't have the fancy code scanner. That's ok, neither do I. Start by taking a paper clip an forming it into a U shape. Now underneath your dashboard, on the drivers side, you are going to look for a diagnostic terminal. There should be some kind of plate or panel you should have to remove to find it. It will kind of resemble an old computer printer wire in appearance but the terminals are female. Make sure the car is off. Take your paper clip and insert it into the 2 top right hand terminals.

l_l_l_l_lXlXl
l_l_l_l_l_l_l

Turn your key to the on position but DO NOT start your car. Now you have to watch your engine light. It will flash your codes to you. The first thing it will tell you is a code 12. This means you hooked it up right. It will show itself by one flash followed by a pause and then 2 more flashes. Then a longer pause. The car will tell you the code 3 times before moving on to the next one. Write them down then let us know what you get. Good luck.

 

it will be at least until Saturday until I will have the car back in my possession, but when I get a chance I will post the codes up here.

 

Good luck. You might check with the shop to see if they pulled the codes too while they had it. If they are checking it out they probably will.

 

sup man

my name is rick and i have an 86 z28 and and a camaro was also my first car. pretty weird huh


but yea mine was burning rich also and i replace the oxygen sensor and it stopped but you could also have an exhaust leak thats why you can smell it so bad.

 

Quick question. How do I post a topic if I need help with my car? Thanks, Micah

 

There IS an exhaust leak. Did I forget to mention that . It's right at the exhaust manifold. The good news is the shop called me back yesterday and it isn't anything that serious. The bad news is a couple bolts bolts are stripped and won't tighten and It's gonna cost a $300 - $400 minimum to rethread them.

Could be worse. My manifold could be cracked.

 

$300-$400 sure seems like a lot to rethread some bolts, unless they are hard to get to and most of the cost is in labor.

 

Most of it is labor.

The guy said he has to remove the whole manifold to do it and the entire process takes about 4 hours.

 

Is it the stock manifold? If it is, consider putting that money into some headers. For maybe another $100, you could vastly improve your power. Why throw good money after bad?

 

The exhaust system already has Edelbrock headers and Flowmaster exhaust installed.

Theres really no other alternative except to get it fixed =/.

 

on your B&M shifter, try using some white lithium grease on the shifter to loosen it up for starters and there is a metal clip on the shifter when you lift the boot up, the metal clip goes into the teeth of the shifter, if you lift up the boot and play with the shifter you will see what i am talking about. There is a screw that holds that metal clip down, if you loosen it up slightly it will allow the shifter to move more freely. i had the same problem for like a year and it was so tight you had to yank it into gear, but since i adjusted that metal clip its perfect.

 

I'll probably have to end up buying a new B&M shifter.

The guy really did a hack job on this thing It's even missing the indicator you have no way of knowing which gear your in except for memory and gradually letting off the brakes and seeing which way the car rolls.


Anyone got one they wanna sell for cheap

I'm gonna have the shop check the O2 sensor also. Can't hurt anything.

Oh and BTW I forgot to mention, the previous woner (or two) removed the catalytic converter. It's sitting in my trunk. Not sure if that is what could be (possibly) throwing the O2 sensor off and causing the engine to burn rich.

I'm just gonna buy magnaflow cats and new flowmaster mufflers when I have the exhaust split off.

 

no the cat will not throw the o2 sensor off the sensor is way before the cat so that isnt the problem just pull it out and if it looks all black and some of the cuts are covered up then spend 20 bucks on a new one problem solved. but i definitly recomend putting a catalytic converter on there because i took mine off my 86 305 tpi and it ran like crap then i threw a magnaflow cat on there and it ran great, and really didnt lose that much sound either


but good luck man

 

Ive got the same problem... My car started doin that over a year ago, so ive just been babyin the tranny... which sucks. Just the other day i floored it in 2nd gear and it had trouble shifting from 2nd to 3rd... that is the first time thats ever happened. Its taken me so long to get it looked at cause i just figured my tranny was goin to **** but i dont have the money for it to get fixed right now. Let us know what you find out about it!

 

I actually hear that thats a common problem on the 700R4.

At first I figured it was because the guy installed a shift kit in the tranny but it has me a bit concerned now.

BTW, when I finally get around to dropping in the 350, how difficult would a T5/T6 swap be?

 

This is gonna be a newbie question, but where exactly is the O2 sensor located on my car?

I've been reading around but can't find any solid references.

I also read that some cars have an O2 sensor installed in the cat. Does this apply to my vehicle? If so I'd think this would be a crucial piece of info as the previous owner or two removed the cat under the false presumption that it would boost performance (the same way that the previous owner told me instead of replacing the malfunctioning EGR just remove it for a kick in HP ).

 

The O2 should be on the drivers side header just below the part where all the pipes on that side come together, most likely will only have one wire. I think the previos owner kinda shugged off your questions and would recomend asking the guys at that shop to give the car a real good once over for safety's sake. They shouldn't charge to much, unless they find something real ugly.

 

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

 

I don't know what kinda shop your car is at but some shops charge like an hour labor or hour and a half for what they call diagnoses but thats just what goes on the invoice. Try to get with the mechanic face to face and explain the car is new to you and your concerned about the competancy of whoever turn the wrench last,all over the car....

 

OK. I have the car back in my possession for a couple days while the shop orders gaskets and studs for the manifold. I managed to snap a few pictures and believe I have located the O2 sensor. This picture was taken of the drivers side of the engine, just about where the exhaust header comes off. If this is indeed the O2 sensor, I believe this might be a LARGE contribution to the rich burn. YUou can't tell very well by the photo, but all the strands of wire are broken except one. It's literally heanging on by a thread. I bet if I removed it, it wouldn't look all that great either.










I also took a picture of what I believe is the ECM terminal you guys were talking about so I am positive I'm not gonna short anything out. If this is the right connector, I want to short the two pins in the top right corner correct?






Also, there a few other things bothering me that I discovered while poking around:


Smack dead in the center of this photo, there is a something that looks almost like one of those rubber mallets you'd find in a hardware store if you count the hose coming off it. Whatever this thing is goes absolutely nowhere other than the hose It's attached to. It also has a bracket on one side and looks like it was originally secured to the car, but now it just hangs down below all the hoses (I pulled it up for the picture).







Also in this photo, there is a connector with corroded ends just laying near the battery. It was obviously unplugged from something although I have no idea what. Anyone got any ideas?






This thing has got me stumped also. It's that hose I was talking about that hangs down by the brake. A whoosing sound can be heard coming from it whenever the footbrake is pressed.






Just a shot of my fuse panel to be sure nothing is out of the ordinary.






Also one last thing. I ordered a Chilton service manual but I don't like the idea of waiting a week until it gets here. What's the location of the EGR valve as I seem to be having trouble finding that as well. Thanks in advance.

 

That looks like the temperature gauge sensor.

Also, yes.. That is the ECM terminal.

 

I think that was the temp guage. I missed the part where the guy said "All the pipes comes together".

Never-the-less I removed the clip, cut the wire (I actually had to cut about a 6 inch length off because the previous owner left it sitting too close to the header and the tubing MELTED around the wire), pried open the clip and scraped the contact area clean. I then stripped the wire and clamped the clip back around it and covered it with some shrink tubing. Looks alot better than before. Also, I just pulled the codes.

The codes were 24 and 44 which, according to a chart at autozone.com, indicates VSS (what the heck is that?) for code 24 and the Oxygen sensor reporting a lean burn for code 44. I can only guess this mean the guy either didn't hook the Oxygen sensor up altogether when he installed the headers, or the sensor is bad and the computer thinks the fuel/air mixture is too lean which is why It's giving too much fuel.

 

Code 24 is the vehicle speed sensor circuit. Not the source of things running badly. We can deal with that later. :-)

Now.... If the previous owner didn't bother to re-install the O2 sensor.. that would *definitely* explain the car running rich and just like crap in general.

Some more info you might find useful in this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/391747-need-help-check-engine.html

 

I guess that would explain why my speedometer sometimes does the jitterbug and says 30 when it feels like im going 40.

As for the Oxygen sensor, the guy surely left it installed, because it found it 15 minutes ago. It was hiding adjacent to the left front tire behind part of the frame just after the header joins the exhaust system. I traced the wire up into the engine compartment and lost it behind the block, so I'm assuming that It's actually hooked in. Should I wait until the exhaust manifold is fixed (loose) if that's a possibility, or should I just replace it altogether?

 

The pict. of the green wire is the temp. gauge switch,if you had pulled it off and started the car you would have noticed the temp. gauge didn't work. The other wire you found near the drivers side tire is most likely the O2 sensor, it usually has a connector about 8"-10" from the sensor, then the wire goes up to the main wiring harness, where it eventually gets to the ECM. I can't say for sure about the tube you pictured under the dash, BUT it is normal to hear SOME "whooshing " from that area, usually from a much shorter piece of tubing, its the pressure assist relief valve in the powerbrake booster. It does this because it helps soften the pedal "feel" when you hit the brakes, I hope you take that bolt out before you over pressure the diaghram and blow the master brake booster out, you could find that it may cause the one way check valve to fail also which would lead to a massive vacuum leak from the engine as thats where the vacuum assist pulls from, engine vacuum.
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The rubber mallet looking thing on the passenger side of the engine is the AIR PUMP outlet pipe. you should feel air coming out whenever the engine is running, if not, then something is not right with the smog set up.

 

After taking a good look at some of the stuff in your pictures I would be interested to see if the guy you bought that car from could figure out how to get out of some chinese handcuffs before you drug him down the street by his fingers.

 

Hahaha sorry to bump a 4 year thread guys, but this was an amusing trip down memory lane.

My my, how FAR I have come...