OK, so for those of you who read my other post, You'd know I recently bought an 85 Z28 Camaro.


Well, when I bought the car the guy threw in a couple of extra goodies with the sale and one of them was a brand new Lunati Camshaft.

I plan on swapping the engine out for a 350 in a year or two, so I'd like to enjoy this cam while I can since I basically got it for free.

BUT, the problem is that the law requires a car to be 25 years or older in order to be emissions free. My car is up for It's last round of emissions in February of 09 I believe. Right on the side of the box it says, "Not legal for sale or use on pollution controlled motor vehicles". So I'm taking it that installing this cam would leave me up the creek without a paddle come emissions time. One other that bugs me is that the engine (305 TPI) has 140K miles on it. I really want to enjoy it for the rest of It's lifetime, but am afraid if I go too wild with it I'll end up burying it before it comes time for the swap.


The cam specs are as follows


Part #: LUN-00016
Valve Lift: .458 Int - .458 Exh
Lobe Lift: .305 Int - .305 Exh
.050 Dur: 218Deg Int - .305 Exh
ADV Dur: 284Deg Int - 284Deg Exh
Lash: HYD Int - HYD Exh


I take it I should wait until after passing 09 emissions before considering throwing this thing in, if at all if it poses a good risk of blowing my engine.

I'm new to all this so any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: Wow, I feel dumb now. According to this site, this cam should also work in the 350.

http://www.groppautomotive.com/FAQ.htm



Should I wait until emissions, or just hold off until the 350? Someone mentioned an increased risk of a blown engine with a new performance cam and 140K

 

That cam will "work" in either a 305 or a 350; that is, it will fit, install, and function, and the engine will run. However, it is FAR from ideal for most engines of either size; and EVEN FARTHER from ideal for a TPI motor.

TPI's design places rather spcific constraints on the cam. The wrong cam, while it might make some other kind of induction system to produce more power, can actually reduce the power output from a TPI one. That cam right ther, is WRONG for TPI.

Doesn't matter if it's "free" or not; if it's not the right one, don't use it. Sell it to someone who has some other kind of situation, to where they CAN use it, and buy yourself one like YOU need for YOUR situation.

That "rule of thumb" passage you quoted DOES NOT apply to TPI. None of the cams they talked about are suitable. They're OK cams, maybe not the best any more, they've been superseded in the 25 years since they came out, but TOTALLY WRONG for TPI. The cam you have now is even older and even less suitable for TPI.

There is no risk of "blowing the engine" because of a new cam. There is, however, risk of a driver blowing an engine, due to overly enthusiastically test-driving it.

Cams are CHEAP. You will spend at least twice the price of a cam, in putting it in. In other words, the total drive-in to drive-out cost of the job, is affected only a VERY LITTLE by whether the cam is "free" or you have to pay for it. You need valve springs and ALL their hardware, gaskets, fluids, no telling how much vacuum line and heater hose and such as that, sensors you may disturb or break, wiring that crumbles to dust, etc. etc. etc., and there will certainly be some "might as well" items you'll need to replace as well like the water pump(not alot of sense in doing all that work, putting a 100k mile WP back on, and having it go out next week, and having to do it all again, eh??).

Forget about that "free" cam, and either buy one that's right for YOUR motor, or leave that motor alone until such time as you're ready to swap it out; and then buy the right cam for THAT one. Which again, if it hasa TPI on it, doesn't matter whether it's a 305 or a 350; that cam IS NOT the right one.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself! Not to mention timing chain, etc.

That cam would work "OK" in a 350 (assuming you're swapping to carb with the 350?). But still, a "great" cam vs your "ok" cam is about a $150 difference MAX, and that's pittance in the long run. Throw that cam in the local classifieds website type of deal. It'll sell really quick I imagine, springtime is when every hotrodder wants new parts for cheap. You can probably get $50 for it, more if you have new lifters for it too?

 

I forgot to mention I want to convert to TBI when I do the swap.

 

You're planning on going from TPI to TBI ?!? Why on earth would you do that?? So much work, so many new parts to replace to DOWNGRADE to TBI?? That boggles my mind. I beg you to reconsider.

 

i was informed that switching to tbi on a 350 with ram air would yield better results over tpi. im so confused... guess we all gotta start somewhere. back to the drawing board.

 

TPI, in the condition AS IT CAME from GM, isn't all that exciting. But, at least it's port EFI, not throttle body injection. TBI sort of combines all of the best features from a mass production standpoint (cost, emissions compliance, cost, ease of assembly, and oh, did I mention, cost?) with all of the WORST features from a performance standpoint (wet flow most especially).

The best all-around deal is to take a TPI car and motor and all its wiring and such, and replace the metal intake parts. The base, runners, and plenum. Those are what makes TPI what it is, both good and bad. Put something in there without the specific limitations of TPI. A MiniRam, Stealth Ram, or the like, is VASTLY superior to TPI.

But swapping to TBI is a move in the wrong direction.

Meanwhile, if the car runs now, I'd suggest leaving the internals of the motor alone; and concentrate on the 350 plan. Instead of dinking around with a cam, work on things about the CAR that will keep a 350 slow, just like they're keeping the 305 slow; exhaust, gears, and torque converter. Sooner or later you'll have to confront those. Might as well do it now, and not waste your money on stuff that doesn't accomplish anything AND doesn'ta dvance you toward the 350 idea.

 

That my friend, is something I can toast to. The car is in the shop right now having the exhaust manifold repaired (Idiot I bought it from stripped the bolts by driving while they were loose. They have to remove the whole manifold to rethread them). The car came with Edelbrock headers when I bought it. The exhaust is ghetto rigged right now. The guy thought removing the cat would give him a boost. All it did is give him probably a couple HP at the most and cost me extra money to get the car to emissions specs. State inspection isn't until Septmeber. So in the meantime I'm gonna have the exhaust split off into true duals, put brand new Delta 44 Flowmasters on and have Magnaflow cats installed.

On a side note for probably an October/November to do item, what do you think of the Edelbrock intakes? I think this would qualify as "getting ready" for the swap since the same intake manifold is compatible with both the 305 and 350.

 

In general, their intakes are among their better products.

OTOH, if you're talking about their TPI base, that's not real wise... you need a WHOLE $$package$$ to go with it, to get much value out of it, and it STILL retains TPI's problematic feature; namely, those anti-RPM long runners. I would not go that way.

I would also recommend STRONGLY against the "true dual" idea. That's a super expensive way to go slower and end up with something that doesn't fit the car. A good 3" single is better. Costs very little power, if any, compared to a typical exhaust shop crush-bent job; FITS THE CAR, and doesn't get in the way of things (starter) or hit things (crossmember, SFCs) or any of that; and since IT FITS, it won't drag the ground and get torn off. There are few things that are more unpleasant than buying a whole bunhc of exhaust stuff and watching it get destroyed immediately. Like a friend of mine had happen once, with a 2nd gen: bought new headers, new mufflers, etc. etc. etc.; went to the muffler shop, a GOOD ONE at that, and had them fab up a whole system for him; then, on his way home from the shop, the VERY FIRST TIME he turned into his driveway, smashed it flat and cracked the headers. $600 down the toilet before it had 4 miles on it.

Instead, get a good high-flow cat like a Catco or something, and a 3" cat-back from your favorite mfr.; Blowmaster, Hooker, Edelbrock, Borla, Dynomax, etc. That's all something you can bolt up under your car yourself, using all the factory hangers (3 of them: rear of the cat, near the entry to the muffler, left tailpipe), so it fits, looks, and works just like factory except for its flow.

 

So wait, your saying that a true dual setup will actually ROB the engine? Wow, my whole world just got turned upside down . What's the philosophy behind that?


As for cat, I was looking at the magnaflow for my model. Is the Catco better?

And regarding the TPI system, those StealthRam Holley setups look nice. When you are saying "whole package", you are referring to the entire $2,400 deal?

EDIT: Just read up on the whole concept. Flow for dual, velocity for single. Since I want both good HP and torque but a bit more torque, I think I might go with your suggestion. Been looking at exhaust options. Theres a couple options I can consider if I go with your suggestion regarding the muffler. We can obviously rule out the single in single out since my car has dual pipes at the tail. And I am guessing that getting a dual in dual out would pose the same torque limitation as just slapping on dual mufflers. So what I'm gathering is the best icing to use on the cake would something like a Flowmaster Delta 44 with a single 3" inlet and dual 2.5" outlets?



Hmmm. Something along these lines doesn't look half bad either. Dual 2.5 in and dual 2.5 out

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flowmaster/389/9525454/10002/-1/753276|10265



Or this. They have a single 3" inlet and dual 2.5" outlet option available and It's stainless to boot.

http://www.hopupracing.com/fl50seststde1.html

 

Close:

What I'm saying is, a crush-bent "custom" dual exhaust made out of small enough tubing to even go up under the car at all, will often flow less than a MANDREL-BENT 3" off-the-shelf bolt-up single like this one which is the one I happen to have. Slowmaster has them too, as do those other mfrs I mentioned, and more besides. Additionally, a pre-mfd single system will FIT THE CAR and not drag or interfere with everything, UNLIKE a "custom" system will typically do. Not all of course, but the VAST MAJORITY of them do; most of the people who build them, are just exhaust guys, after all, not engineers or anything. Plus, an off-the-shelf system will probably end up costing quite a bit less.

The whole Stealth Ram system for $2400 includes the Holley ECM, wiring, and a bunch of other stuff. You don't necessarily need all that, although you could go that way if you wanted to. You can also just use the stock all that other stuff from a TPI car, and just buy the Holley castings. It's around $600 or some such, if you have a complete TPI setup, and you take the TPI castings and runners out and put the HSR in. However much of the TPI setup you'd have to buy to complete your setup (TB, wiring, ECM, injectors, sensors, etc.) would then be on top of that $600ish figure. You can buy COMPLETE TPI setups for $300 or so on eBay or the classifieds on this site; so with the HSR castings, a junk complete TPI with ECM and harness, and a few other misc things (fuel pump for example), you could probably do it for $1200-1400 or thereabouts.