BladeX10

Yes.. I knew something like this would happen.. I was changing seals and i got some of the rope stuck in the cylinder.. It wont come out no matter how hard i pull on it.. The engine turns over just fine but the rope is stuck.. What can i do? im kinda pissed because i probably just messed up my whole engine

Apeiron

You may have got it stuck under a valve.

BladeX10

Thats what i was thinking.. Where else could it go

Any ideas on what to do?

Apeiron

Open the valves while you pull to see if it comes free.

BladeX10

I had someone turn the engine over while i was pulling the rope.. Still nothing.. I dont know why its not coming out

Apeiron

Did you turn it through two full rotations? What kind of rope did you use?

BladeX10

It probably rotated 10 times before stopping.. I used orange nylon type rope.. 1/4 inch thick

BladeX10

What would happen if i just cut the rope as far as i could and just leave it in there?

1500chevy5.7l

it would ohh...gum up the cylinder clog your valves turn to glue and make a really bad mess....and then would require you to pull the heads and so forth..... do this..you have the valve cover off ?tighten down both rocker arm nuts. on the intake and exhaust...till both valves are fully open.... then pull and pull hard.... unless somehow your rope managed to make a knot.....in the cylinder bore.....it will come out...

Apeiron

That's not really an option. If you can't get the rope to come free, you'll have to pull the head.

BladeX10

Im not going to pull the heads as i dont have the time and dont have the proper tools for that.. I did alittle experiment with this stuff and when its hot.. It turns into liquid.. So i believe it will eventually dissolve enough for it to not gum up in there.. who knows.. this is starting to irratate me now.. 3 days and all i got was 4 valves done. lol

naf

iTrader: (7)

While you have the head off you can go ahead and do the other valves. Could certainly be done in less than three days.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

It's not that bad. The worst part is the gasket set you'll need for the intake manifold, but on the plus side, you can clean all of the crap out of it. It's not a terribly hard job. Just disconnect everything and stay organized.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I did half of my engine in one night. Granted, it was the driver's side, but I still cranked it out. The hardest part was setting lash with only a 1" extension. I guesstimated 3/4 of a turn from no lash. Seems to run good.

BladeX10

The rope is still stuck in the cylinder.. I'm probably just going to cut off as much as i can and just burn it up.. Maybe after running the engine for awhile.. Ill put some sea foam or something in the cylinder and wash out all burnt plastic or whatever.. As much as i would like to take the heads off and stuff.. I'd rather wait until i can get ahold of a new engine since this engine is pushing 220k miles and rebuilding the top half wouldnt make sense with the weak bottom half. lol

Once i get a good job.. Ill probably be able to do alot more then i could do now.

In the meantime.. I just needa keep this engine running until then.. What do you guys think i should do with this rope situation? just cut it and let it burn? I did alittle experiment with a piece and once its hot.. It melts to liquid.. So maybe i could run some oil or seafoam in that cylinder and wash it out?
----------
Oh and BTW.. Im never doing the seals with the heads on ever again. I swear on that. Reading all these posts made it seem so easy.. So far i've broke a spring compressor, broke a socket wrench, 3 semi deep cuts on my hands from backfiring spring compressor, almost a missing eye from a backfiring spring after the compressor snapped.. And im only on the 5th valve. lol. Looking to continue my wonderful journey with the other 11 valves

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Holy crap. Where did you get your compressor? The one I got at autozone was GARBAGE. I returned it the next day and told the guy he shouldn't sell those to anyone. Ever.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92900

Those are awesome. Offset jaws, curled slightly up to hold the spring really well. I used one in an auto shop, and had to use the same one when it came to working on my car. Makes the job a breeze.

As for the rope, you really should pull at least that head. It's not a lot of work (you can cheap it out and just buy gaskets for everything, remove as little as possible to pull the manifold, then pull the head) and you could probably get it done in a day if everything goes well. No special tools. Just a socket wrench and the right sockets.

Apeiron

And a torque wrench.
----------
Don't do that.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I used this one http://store.summitracing.com/partde...4&autoview=sku for my last spring change. Much better than anything I've used before.

I have one like you linked, Scary, before I got the Summit tool. I had to use it on the beehives on the 396 - the others would pick up and hold the retainer properly. I spend a lot of time looking for keepers that sprang away before finally getting that one. I have a couple lever types and another with a cam/lever that never seem to work on all the valves. The Summit compressor was the best I've ever used.

{Edit}Forgot to mention, I've never used rope, only compressed air. For the very reason this thread exists. If you don't have an air compressor, I understand that's an issue, but even they can be rented.

Apeiron

Doesn't work on dual springs, either.

89RsPower!

Sure you can rent em but they arn't all that much $$ really, I got my craftsman 30 gallon 5.5hp one for $175 barley used. It's portable and works great, best money I ever spent. I've spent double that on my impact gun.. the compressor really only makes sense if you already have a bunch of air tools that you use at work though since they can be pricey.. Makes life so much easier if you do a lot of projects or work on cars..

88IROC350TPI

I don't understand how the rope is stuck if you can spin the motor over? The only way it'd be stuck is on the valve (pull off the valve spring... it'd come right out) or it's stuck because the piston is pushing it against the chamber (the motor would seize and not spin over if this was the case). My only suggestion, if you've already done both of the above, would be to try spinning the motor backwards..

Apeiron

If it's kinked or knotted itself then it could be stuck without interfering with the piston.

BladeX10

I had that crappy one they sell at kragens.. I had to keep bending the U shaped thing back to normal after it turned into a W until it snaped.. Thing is a piece of crap

gcgarner

Let us know how that goes! LOL.

Sure it turns to liquid ... liquid NYLON. LOL.

BladeX10

If i left the car running for like 10-15 mins.. Dont you think all the liquid would dissolve or something?

Now im scared to do the other cylinders.. lol. When i get a better engine or a better car.. Ill never ever use the rope method again. Glad i learned my lesson on a beat down engine.

86camaro383

iTrader: (3)

wow dude...Put rope in the cylinder? If you dont have the right tools dont do the job.....ill be honest and say that this thread is pretty funny.

BladeX10

alot people cant afford air compressors and all the air compressor tools. So they use the rope method.. which is very common. I actually prefer the rope method over the compressor method because if the compressor loses its compression.. youre screwed.. If youre using the rope method.. Theres no chance of having your stem go down.

Apeiron

If the compressor goes down, you've got lots of time to deal with it before the valves drop. If you're paranoid, you can put a rubber band on the stem to catch it just in case.
----------
No, it's going to sit there and clog things up until it burns into a hard deposit.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Hey, he's 18 and has learned the hard way.... I didn't have all the necessary tools at 18 either. With age comes experience right? I help my teenage brother-in-laws all the time. I take my hat off to the guy for trying to attempt it in the first place

Still, I wouldn't have started the engine with some sort of foreign material in the cylinder, but I guess his back was against the wall and he obviously needed to use the car....

Kind of curious as to what it was stuck on.....? Besides I don't really understand what rope was doing inside the cylinder to change the valve seals. I realize that you wanna keep the valve on the seat, but rope????

Apeiron

Rope is an appropriate, but not preferred, method to hold the valves up.

BladeX10

I must be the 1st person to get rope stuck while using the rope method. lol. Dont see any other threads about this subject. Bad luck maybe?

89RsPower!

You guys that don't understand why he was using rope or that are trying to call him out for using rope are simply showing your ignorance. It's a very common method of holding the valves shut to replace valve seals, lots of people do it that way. He didn't invent this method and sure as hell isn't the first guy to do it this way, he's just the first unlucky guy that I've heard of to get the darn thing stuck.

Back to topic: So what did you end up doing?

BladeX10

I haven't really done much in the last 2 days.. Its been super super windy outside and all my stuff was blowing all over the place.. So i put it on hold until a nice clear day comes around.

I'm going to take the 2 valve springs off again and see if i can get it loose that way.. I'm almost positive thats where the rope is stuck

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Whoa, I wasn't calling anyone out...... and I may be ignorant but I've never heard of the rope method before!!! I guess it makes sence if there's nothing else....

I do understand that he was trying to hold his valves up.... I probably would have done it the hard way by taking the heads off (because I don't have a compressor either, & I'm ignorant to boot )

I thought that I was giving the kid props for trying to do it in the first place. It was unfortunate that he ran into problems.....

There are guys out there twice his age that would be too scared to try and fix their cars.

Hey, hope that there's no long standing effects of the rope melting in your engine....

the blur

the combustion temperture is about 1500 degrees. anything in there will surely burn up. worst case is you have a little carbon build up, so what....

BladeX10

It seriously gets that hot in there? damn

Azrael91966669

you know if the cly is at its top dead center the valve cant even fall all that far i tried it last night on a 305 i ended up just useing a long bolt suck into the plug hole to hold it up fully
got tired of rope getting stuck

BladeX10

I was thinking about doing that.. My question though is how do i know for sure the cylinder is tdc?

Azrael91966669

there are 2 pistons at top dead center at the same time just follow the firing order
1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2

1 - 6 at top dead center at the same time also good for setting valve lash
8 - 5 at top dead center at the same time
4 - 7 at top dead center at the same time
3 - 2 at top dead center at the same time

if the intake is also off you can just watch the intake lifter drop on the next cly for the fireing order if the intake is still on then ignore that tip

look in the plug hole with a flash light and a mirror to see the piston at tdc or if the engine is out of the car like mine just use a flashlight into the hole

Fullsizewagon

Idea: get a piece of pipe thin enough to go into the spark plug hole but thick enough to pass the rope through. Slide the pipe over the rope & into the spark plug hole. Pull on the rope while pushing the pipe into the cylinder.
That way the rope won't catch on the edge of the threads and you get to apply some force on the rope in the righ direction in there. If it's caught on a valve you can just try to push on the stems at the same time & I'm sure it'll release.
I wouldn't cut & burn, it'll make a mess in there & I'm sure you'll regret it.

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

Wow, I have since seen this post linked on other forums. Get it out yet?

trumps2000

iTrader: (2)

I don't understand why people don't do it the way I did. Just rotate the engine and have the piston keep the valves from falling in. I would have liked to use the air compressor but the fitting wouldn't fit.

trumps2000

iTrader: (2)

Guess I'm a lil late on that comment

James Hosk

i got my stuck too so may i ask what you did to get it out

91ls1t56

I am willing to bet it is snagged on the hook looking electrode of the spark plug, pull the spark plug out.

69L48Z27

Reading this zombie thread it sounds like the OP cut the rope, shoved the rest in the plug hole and fired it up.

It cant get caught on the electrode. The plug hole is where you feed the rope into. No plug installed with rope in the cylinder.

91ls1t56

DUH ! What was I thinking ?

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Since this old thread got resurrected, I would have tried to twist the rope either CW or CCW.
It's that stiff nylon rope. It probably got twisted back around itself (like garden hoses do) and kinked.

BigBlock73

iTrader: (1)

I changed all my seals not long ago. Had the rope get stuck on one cylinder.
Ifound that during the spring removal and reinstall the rope got pinched under one of the valves. I opened the valves with springs and retainers on ,using the spring compressor and was able to remove the rope.
Good luck

ploegi

And this is why you should use COTTON rope for this exercise. Nylon will melt, turn to liquid, and then go wherever it can. It will never completely burn away. Throw some in a fire once, and watch what happens. It doesn't matter what you do, you ARE going to leave some fibers from the rope in the cylinder. Cotton will burn away to ash in short order. Nylon..... will not.