First I realize this might not be the best sight to ask this but you guys have been good to me so far so I figure we can be mature about this

ok so I have been on here dicussing with a lot of people that I wanted to build a 383 stroker and drop it in a thirdgen when I get back from basic training and AIT this year

I ran into a pardiciment...I love thirdgens don't get me wrong but I have a HUGE sweet spot for 5.0 Mustangs

My question is which would be the better way to go to put 400 HP on the ground? 383 storker build and drop into camaro(thing that bugs me is having to get another tranny too) or to buy a 5.0 and build it up?

what would be a better way to get to 400 horse plus be reliable, streetable, and which would be cheaper(cost is not the biggest deciding factor)

 

well, considering you have to buy the mustang, the 383 would probably be cheaper.

 

I have to buy either car...my RS is in WAY to crappy condition to put a 383 in plus I want to keep it for DD for a while

 

I don't know if you have as many engine options with the Ford as you do with the Chevy. With the RS, any small block drops right in and bolts up. 305, 350, 383, 400, any combo you can come up with is a bolt on deal, from a WIDE range of years. With the 5.0, you're starting with less cubes. I know there's a 351 Ford, is that block a direct swap for the 5.0? I don't know. This is what you have to look into.

400hp should be easy with a 383.

 

Well to get 400 hpas far as streetability is concerned that 383 will be more streetable and have much better low end TQ. If your goals were a bit more tame ide say you could easily accomplish it eather way but there is no replacement for displacement. Now as far as the trans is concerned at 400 hp youll probably have to swap the trans in the 5.0 anyways or atleast rework it a bit. In the end though eather way youll need a bit of mods to the motor and the rest of the car. Ford part availability is comperable to chevy (though i still think chevy has the edge) although alittle more expencive. The mustang is a bit lighter though. Again though comming back to the 400 HP goal for thoes kinds of numbers its far better to do it with a 383 than a 302 for lots of reasons. So i think all and all the scales are tipped in the camaros favor. However if you were willing to drop that number down or use a motor other than the 5.0 then you might be just as well off eather way. Now i havnt owned a mustang befor but this is what i see in them. Thing about it is and as it has always been mustangs were built as fun sporty cars with a performance kick where as the camaro was built more as a performance carspecifically created to take out the mustang. Actually to my knowledge the only time where comperably optioned mustangs could outperform a camaro was in the 80s everything pretty much sucked equally performance wise and the mustangs had little bit of an edge due to weight factor atleast untill the 5.7 returned turning the tides back in GMs favor. Popular as a low budget sports car especially with women you can really see this trend carry over even today. Small motors reasonable 1/4 mile times handleing seems to have a bit of emphisis more so than other sports cars. I mean although in exsistance have you ever seen a 4 cyl camaro? Then think about how many 4 cyl mustangs are out there. The concepts and designs just seems to be more for fun and enjoyment than than performance and a design based on that concept just dosnt seem like a good foundation to work on. Does that mean they cant be fast no but to me i wouldnt want to work any harder than i had to. Just my oppinion though.

 

Do like me: do both. I've never climbed above what the government defines as poverty-level income, but yet I have an '89 Mustang LX 5.0, an '82 camaro 355, an '84 Trans Am with a 454 and a 357 and an LM7 to choose from for it, and an '84 Fiero with an LM7 in it.

 

h*ll yeah brother THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACMENT but for the ? i have owned 4 camaros (2 89'''s, 91, 92) 2 TA's (73, 77) and ONE mustang. I bought a 93 ex state trooper mustang trunk car. and put a few mods in it but i never got the feel for it like a camaro. I had a 89 with 410hp that was taken from me by an old lady that didnt know a stop sign means stop. but no mustang i came across could compete with it. and to me they are just more fun. all a mustang is good for is doughnuts.

 

Mustang vs. Camaro...it is completely a matter of preference. You are asking the question on a Camaro forum, so guess what kind of responses you are likely to get... Ask the same question over at Stangnet and I bet the pendulum will swing the other way.

I have owned both, and think that each car has its strong and weak points. Stock for stock in a straight line, my '89 5.0 mustang would roast my '85 Z28. I think the camaro had the edge in the handling department, but the mustang was awesome for burnouts and donuts.

In my experience it has been cheaper to produce horsepower with the camaro, but what I saved on the engine build I have spent on the drivetrain to make it more durable. The factory 8.8" axle in the mustang was definitely nice, it took a lot of abuse and never complained. The 7.5" in my camaro has blow up twice.

In your case, if you are set on 400hp the drivetrain differences are a moot point since you would have to upgrade no matter which car you choose.

 

From everything I've seen, heard, and talked about (considering i live in the ******* riviera and EVERYONE has a 5.0), given a stock camaro and stock 5.0, youre going to go faster in the mustang for less money. 351 windsors are just as abundant as 383's, and just as easy to drop in. Personally, id say 5.0

 

See this is what I am thinking...I have had two GM cars(1997 Grand Prix GTP, 1991 Camaro RS) and they have both given me lots of ****...So I think it might be Ford's turn to try to impress me.

I have never owned a Mustang, but I have driven a couple 5.0's that my buddys have had and I absolutly love the way they drive...I mean for streetability the mustangs seem to be designed better...for example my camaro has a GOD AWFUL ammount of sueeks and rattles and vibrations. it shakes when moving(not real bad but a little)
And from what I have seen from the stangs I have drove/riden in they don't seem to squeek and stuff near as bad.

Here is my biggest point...it seems to me that the 5.0 motor is very durable, easy to work on and so on compared to any GM motors I have worked on. I have never really messed with the 350 too much but I am just curious since it seems very easy to get HP out of the 5.0 could I get too 400 on a late 80's/early 90's EFI 5.0 for pretty easy and cheap?

Also really hate that the camaro's drivetrains are so weak don't wanna spend a **** ton of money on it

Last option...where do the 4.6 Stangs and LT1/LS1 F-Bodies stand when it comes to bang for the buck? I know you can get cheap power out of a 350 or 5.0 so how about these?

 

If you have the funds to do it....a cam swap is all it takes to break 400hp on an LS1...skip LT1's completely. A 5.0 will get more of a response from gt40 heads, cobra upper/lower intake, rockers, and a cam, than a camaro would with the same mods.

 

So that LS1 with cam is that 400 on motor or 400 on the ground?

Also what car takes mods better? 4.6 Stang or LS1 F-Body?

 

By far the LS1.

 

I have owned both. I love my F-bodies for their looks and handling, but the Fox body mustangs hook better with their stock style "Quadra-shock" rear. (83-93) I had an 88 GT and loved the car (Paxton supercharged 347 stroker) years later I traded it for a 95 GT and hated that piece of crap. (Just a heavier-feeling car) I love my LS-7 powered camaro, but it wont hook-up in any gear! For my money: Buy a 87-93 notchback (Trunk) and drop a stock LS-1/ T-56 in it and have fun! (Yes, there are swap kits for this) My .02c.

 

So how much power can you get out of an ls1 for pretty cheap?

 

You can get 400 to the wheels with a cam and roller rockers. Hell, alot of LS1 cars dyno at 330 stock, which is odd because GM advertises them as 330 or so at the crank.

 

Ya i have heard many times they were underrated to not hurt corvette sales

either way if i get the cam to break 400 will that be a streetable/smooth cam?

also what can you get out of an ls1 with just bolt ons?

 

To be honest, that clock is still ticking. People are still finding out new
things everyday. Much like the small blocks we still use today. Gosh,
now that I think about it, people are still finding new ways to get more
power out of them with less and less cash 60 years later!

To put a number on it, which I cant 'cuz I dont have a LS1 hahah!

but, 425-475BHP with minimal effort.

 

ya really the what it comes down to is should I BUILD a 383 myself, buy an ls1 and do a couple mods, or get a 5.0 and mod heavily?

Pros to 383 thirdgen: Learning experience, Everything done the way I want it, power, upgradability, end with NEW engine, cheaper recipient car(mid 80's iroc or z28), carbed so easier to work on/build, cheaper parts.

Cons to 383 thirdgen: Time/work, Starting power, since it's mid 80's iroc or Z it won't have new technology(power windows, etc), DRIVETRAIN will have to be changed, thirdgens are less road friendly than 4th gens(squeeks, rattle, vibrations), prolly need new rear end.

Pro's to ls1 fourth gen: Starting power, good potential, newer car with newer technology, DRIVETRAIN(t-56), good/strong rear end(i think)

Cons to ls1 fourth gen: More expensive starting car, motor already has miles on it, harder to work on, more expensive parts.

Pro's to 5.0: Always wanted one of these, 5.0 takes mods very easy, decent stock power, cheap body, cheap parts.

Cons to 5.0: Really common for performance around here, smaller displacement, prolly have to change rear end, few more but i gotta go for now so post them later

 

Ok, I'll add a little here. In my 88 GT I was using a modified stock 8.8 rear. They are really strong (Only broke 2 over the years, which isnt bad considering 600+ rwhp and Slicks) What I DID go through was a LOT of trannys! (7 stock 5 speeds and 4 motorsport 5 speeds)

My LS-1 90 RS uses a 10 bolt thirdgen rear with a T/A girdle and 4340 axles with an auburn posi (Plus 373 gears) I have yet to break it with over 600 rwhp (Last dyno was 617 rwhp with a rich tune) I use dot drag radials on the car.
The ls-1 is a magical motor that takes to tuning and small mods like crazy! With a good flowing exhaust and cam + a great tune, 400+ hp is easily obtainable. The bad part? Expensive! You will need to buy a new K-member (Or notch your factory one, as I did) Everything you buy will be expensive (My headers cost me almost 1000.oo, because Noone made any at the time) Is it worth it? Absolutely!

 

Alright I'm going to give you some of my personal experience with projects so it might help you out.

I had the same SORT of dilemma back a year or two ago. I was debating whether to buy a new camaro to start fresh on or use the one I had (piece of junk) and rebuild it better and stronger. (Sort of the same situation, just replace new camaro with mustang)

I ended up buying a new camaro and it had some very hi performance mods in it for no extra cost. I fell in love with the car and it's handleing (which I never would have done myself) and found out alot about what I like in a sport car. I learned things I didn't know I needed to learn, and even though to this day I'm out a couple thousand dollars, I don't regret that decision.

My end advice, then, is to do whichever you feel is what you want. In the end it won't really matter whether you have a camaro or mustang, hell getting a mustang might even teach you something you didn't know (such as you like a certain way the car responds vs the way the camaro responded). Don't try to compare mods to mods or price for this mustang part vs price for that camaro part, it's too variable. You can get parts for either don't sweat it. No one can make this discision for ya, and money's not really an issue when you're trying to pick a car you want to keep.

Good luck man

 

My question is, how did you come up with that?

You talked about "streetable", but not what you're really trying to accomplish with the car, with that much power.

 

Am I missing something here.....? Why hasn't anyone suggested dropping the 383 into the Mustang. Seems like there is about 4 episodes of Pinks or Pinks All Out where someone has a SBC powered 5.0. It's a natural. Cubic inches, small, light chassis, strong 8.8 rear end. 4 link suspension and a ton of aftermarket support for both the motor and the chassis.

 

Ya i have pretty much decided that if I do anything with a mustang it will only be a 5.0 with bolt ons...I don't really have enough interest in building a beastly stang.

So its down to building the 383 for mids 80's iroc or z28, and buying an ls1 car

as of now I am still leaning on building the motor for two big reasons...one is pride...to me being able to open the hood and look at a big gleamin v8 and having people ask "where did you get this?" being able to say"I built it" would give me a great feeling

two is that building a motor will really give me a lot of knowledge about cars that I don't have now and would just plain be fun

so does anyone here have a mid 80's iroc or z28? how do they drive? I mean if I can get one that is in good shape would I regret it? also what options were availible on them?

 

Well i have a 85 birlinetta with the F41 suspention and an 86 trans am with the WS6 suspention package. Both handle very well. I think on the skid pads the IROCs were tested to pull off around .93 Gs which is pretty darn good even by todays standards. Havnt looked into many new cars but the tests i see even for more moder sports cars hang around that number. They lack the smoothness on a more modern car though thats the catch. Brakes on the mid 80s IROCs are good for thier times but not as good as a new were camaro. Not bad but noticable. As far as options you could get just about anything really. Pretty much all the basic ammenities youde expect to find in a new car can be found on an iroc. Everything from the basic power everything (locks, windows, trunk release, mirrior adjust, on and and) and also things like cruise control. Theres the power brakes power steering ect AC is pretty much on every camaro except for the no options base modle camaros. Theres performance options of course also. One worthy of mentioning was the borg and warner 9 bolt rear axle. It was significatly stronger than the common 10 bolt. I dont think youde regret it if you can find a nice one although like any 20 year old car expect to have things that will need to be gone over.

 

ok cool cool I am definatly going to make the investment and get a low mile good condition iroc with all the options even though I am not using the motor lol ill just sell it

 

I know im new, and my opinion wont count, but thats my vote. With a mild 383 you are looking at low 12's very easy with the mustang. A little shot of juice and you could very well see mid to low 11's or better. I love camaro's like everybody else here, but fox body mustangs go really fast for cheap.

 

well putting a chevy 383 into a mustang would require a lot of swap work wouldn't it??

 

Depends what you call a lot of work. There are whole websites dedicated to the swap so your not breaking new ground. Here's a pretty decent site...provided you can navigate through all the unrelated advertising.

http://www.350monstang.com/index.htm

 

k well after some concidering I have decided I dont want to do a mustang 383 swap

So down to the last two...

mid 80's iroc with self built 383

versus

ls1 trans am(rather have trans am than camaro when it comes to 4th gen)

I think I am going to end up building the 383 because I have always wanted to build a motor

so if I get an iroc with LG4 do those se comp comtrolled carb? also will the fuel system bolt right up to the 383?

what suspension/drivetrain things am I going to HAVE to change(will get some stuff to make it better but what is the minimum I can get away with?) to handle 350-400 wheel horsepower/torque

Would it be a relativly easy job if I got an iroc with the t-5 and swapped to t-56?

If I get one with a 700-R4 what automatic tranny should I use? and how hard is it to install?

 

here is another option I just took into concideration...

what about a 383 TPI? I mean I could get a late model Iroc with a 350 tpi and just change components right? would that be a better route to go than building carbed motor since I could just use the engine I had?

pretty much like buying the car and doing a big performance rebuild

 

A little more complicated than that. The stock TPI wasn't designed for a 383. In fact it does a pretty lousy job of feeding a high performance 350. Your going to need a whole sale revamping of the system...Holley Stealth Ram, Superram, Miniram or at least a better base, larger runners and injectors along with some computer work. You would be better off buying a good rolling chassis less motor with a nicely modded chassis and perhaps a T56 already swapped in. They are out there. Not something you see everyday but at least once a month someone is parting out an already modded 3rd gen in the classified section of this website. I got my 1985 IROC roller off of eBay years ago with no motor but a nice Hanlon Motorsports T5 and full Spohn/Global West suspension. The guy even delivered it to me.

 

Since you've considered an LS1, why not an LS1 3rd gen? Lighter than 4th gens, better looking (in my opinion). 400 HP not hard at all, better street manners than a 400 HP 383.

 

I've had all of your choices at one time or another, so I'll give you my input:

LS1 F-body- Currently best bang for the buck vehicle out there, period. 300rwhp stock, great brakes, T56, huge aftermarket, would make a practical daily-driver, etc. Even the smaller cams are hitting 400rwhp with supporting bolt-ons. My Z28 made 330rwhp with catted MACs and a Loudmouth, 436rwhp heads/cam, 576rwhp H/C/100shot, 460rwhp with the 382 and over 600rwhp with the 382/100shot. Can't say anything good about the fragile 7.5 10-bolt, Y-style exhaust, engine half-under the cowl and plastic interior. I'll buy another one eventually...

5.0 Mustang- Bullet-proof engine and rear, great sounding true duals, huge-aftermarket, easy to work on, and relatively inexpensive. However, the styling is getting dated, the interiors are pretty cheesy, the T5 will explode and AODs suck, ergonomics are odd, Quadra-shock sucks, 4-lug and drums out back. My 1989 GT went 12.9 with a pretty mild head/cam combo. Would buy another and just do shortys/exhaust, Cobra intake, pulleys, 5-lug/brakes and drive it into the ground.

3rdGen- Great looks, inexpensive, handle well, SBC, endless combinations of options, 700R4 is pretty solid, and did I mention great looks? Cons would be choking TPI, Y-pipe exhaust, squeaks/creaks, crappy aftermarket and negative stigma. A L98-based 383 is awfully fun on the street and not very expensive.

My 2000 Z28 (when it was heads/cam/nitrous) and my 1992 GT (bolt-ons) in 2004.


My Z28 382/nitrous in 2006.


Forged LSx 382...


My bone-stock 1991 L98 Formula with my 2004 Z06 in 2008.


My 1990 Corvette 'vert with mild 383/700R4 in 2006.


Don't hesitate to hit me up with any questions. I've had two 3rdGens, two 5.0 GTs, and three LSx-based platforms.

 

GREAT RESPONSE! Some awesome cars and a great collection! If I had to post all of my hot rods I would fill up a page

My vote is for LSx based thirdgen if cost is not the biggest factor as you mentioned!

 

Food For Thought >> Build-up A G-BODY >>

 

Thanks, bud. I've had quite a few rides over the years.

Here's a couple more pics:

Z16 CE and Formula.


I like GM products...


Two pony-cars...

 

And a few more on topic:
L98 383


Tuning the 383...


Love the later 3rdGen interiors.

 

hey thanks alot man and five7kid to answer your question I would rather not drop a fuel injected morot into a thirdgen...if I am going to build it I want a carbed 383 it's much cheaper and easier to work on

I like the idea with the roller and t56 it would be a really nice find

I do really like the exterior design of thirdgens, and fourth gens(except the ls1 camaros I hate those headlights)

 

Let me shed some light on this whole mustang vs camaro HP battle. I have an 86 trans am with a 355 with heads and a cam. I also own a 2008 shelby GT(not the 500). ALL of my freinds are ford guys but I am GM at heart.

With that said. Every one of my freinds (3 to be exact) with a 5.0 mustang has done heads, cam, intake manifolds, and tuning. They were pretty maxed out 302's....one even had longtubes and 10:1 compression. On the dyno, the most powerful one put down 299 RWHP. And it wasn't the one with 10:1......it was a GT40 headed 306 in a 93. My old 305 TPI with JUST a cam did 225 RWHP. That set me back less than 1000$ because I did headers and an adjustable pressure reg with it. Don't get me wrong, mustangs are awesome street cars and they are a blast to drive. Sound good too. But dollar for dollar, you WILL NEVER get the power out of a 302 that you would get out of a 350 or 383. To get 400HP out of a 5.0, you are going to have to do nitrous or a blower. I have to this day never seen an NA one do 400HP. Hope this helps.....good luck!

Go fast for cheap in a stang....yes. They are lighter

400 HP, probably not. I wouldn't set my goal for HP though. It's a big misconception. A kid I know runs 11's with 275 WHP because it's in a 240sx that weighs 2600 lbs. That car is a ROCKET and he doesn't have close to the HP of some of the cars he whoops on.

 

ok then let me change my statement

I want to be able to run low 12's N/A without any significant weight reduction.

So what will it take to make a 5.0 run that and what would it take to get a 383 thirdgen to do that?

Also what would it take to make an ls1 f-body do low 12's N/A?

 

For a third gen to do that, a 350 with a good cam and a good set of heads will do that, as long as you match the engine components right, and have a set of 3.73's or so with good traction. Figure about 350 RWHP will net you low 12's in a car that weight, granted you are a good driver. With the 5.0 stang, you may need 325-330 RWHP, but that will be tough to do on a 302 all motor I think. Kid I know with a heads/cam 331 stroker in his mustang makes 327 to the wheels, so figure it's gonna be a lot harder to make that on a 302. There tough to make good power on. Thats why so many mustang guys boost them.

As far as an LS1 F-body, not much. I had a 2000 firehawk and bolt ons with a good tune and gears should get you low 12's. Longtubes, full exhaust, airlid, intake manifold, and a nice aggressive tune and I don't see why it wouldn't do that. (there low 13's stock)

 

Twitch, If you want to get some good answers on built 5.0 Mustangs go to www.musclecarresto.com there are a ton of guys that have some serious Mustangs over there.

Ok now with that said. I have an extensive knowledge in 79-93 Mustangs.If you want to get one up and over 400hp do a 306 (mild mild stroker), a good set of heads,like twisted wedge,70MM throttle body,Holley Systemmax intake,and a Vortech supercharger with an 8-10 PSI pulley,get a 86-93 with fuel injection.

That's the receipe

If you check that forum out, only90s (black 90 Mustang) my dad restored that car last year for him,he's pushing 450 at the rear,running the parts I posted for you.

 

ok cool cool thanks for the suggestions

here is the deal if I do a thirdgen I want to do a 383 build not just a modded 350
Also I want to be able to drive this car every day and it be able to stand up to stop and go traffic

I am gonna wanna use a mild cam(Flat Tappet cause roller is too expensive for what I am doing)
I would like to stick with stock heads if possible because aftermarket are really expensive(can get new if I need too)
Prolly use KB forged pistons(good price on summit)
mostly keep stock internals if possible and just replace what needs to be replaced.
Holley 650 carb or edelbrock I havent decided yet
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap Intake
Hooker headers
Stock Piping with Glass Packs...Although I have concidered buying Flowmaster's Cat-Back American Thunder Exhaust System

Transmission
Would like to find a car with a T56 or beefy Automatic already swapped in

Not sure what gearing I want though prolly 3:73

Not alot of chasis work right now if I don't have to

Here is the thing that gets me...It takes all this to make a 383 thirdgen run with a mildly modded ls1...

I am liking the idea of an ls1 car more and more every day because I don't have to change drivetrain, chassis(WS6 ftw), or a whole lot of anything I can just slap on a nice exhaust, tune it up, and a couple bolt ons.

It almost seems like it would cost less to get there by just buying the ls1(even if they are more expensive up front) plus they are newer and have all the luxeries of new cars.

 

No problem at all,either one's a great choice in my book.

 

What's driving your desire for a 383. By reading your thread, is seems that your compromising the whole combination for cubic inches. Cubic inches are great but the newer head designs and roller cam choices are going to get you the power your looking for and allow you to maintain streetability. Rather than go 383, how about a nice 350 build with good quality heads and a roller cam? Start with a 350 roller shortblock. They are cheap and easy to find. Have the block fully machined, rods resized with ARP rod bolts, hang some hypereutectic flat-top pistons and good rings on them. Have the block fully machined. Then install an aftermarket head like AFR or even modified Vortecs from Scoggin-Dickey if money is really tight. Follow roller camshaft recommendations in regards to your use and your good.

Don't get me wrong. A 383 with this plan would be the better combo but if you had to have a choice between cubic inches and a quality head design/roller camshaft with 350 cubes. You'll be happier with the smaller motor.

The following is good reading:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ild/index.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...mer/index.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ion/index.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ion/index.html

 

Ya well taking everything into concideration I am leaning on an ls1.

My desire with the 383 is just that I really think those motors are cool lol i know crappy reason but I just love them...

I was originally planning on building this motor in the 8 monthes I will have between AIT(Im in the army) and college however I am leaning on starting in the spring semester which is only like 3 weeks after I get home from AIT so I think I am going to just buy a Trans Am WS6

not for sure yet

 

Nothing wrong with that.....

The hardest thing would be finding one that wasn't beat on. Find one previously owned by a little old lady who only drove her WS6 on Sundays and only to church....and make sure the church isn't "Our Holy Father of Dragstrip"!!

 

Hey, I won't dissagree with you one bit on the LS1 choice. It's going to take WAY more work and money to make a third gen do what an LS1 can do stock. A gen 1 motor doesn't even compare to a gen 3 LS1. I built my 86 TA cause it's cool having a fast third gen since you don't see them too often. I owned a 2000 firehawk like I said, and that car would rip on most everything else on the street stock for stock. Good luck man!

 

thanks alot guys so what are the differences between the camaro and trans am? I mean I know motor, drivetrain, and all that is there same I mean little stuff like luxeries that were more common on one or the other, or certain ones with cool package options? Stuff like that...also are the ls1 camaro ss's hard to come by cause it sure would be cool to have the SS name