anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Corvettes... Interesting.

Lots of aluminum. Lots of over engineering. Same issues as other GM cars, more issues due to complex electrical systems. Even the HVAC systems are like NASA grade crap, that costs hundreds of dollars to fix.

Corvettes are nice STOCK, for driving back roads on Sundays. I'd probably buy a 01+ as a daily driver. I'll never modify or restore one again. Money pit. Too much to maintain. A Vette in good or poor condition is a parts car, because it costs twice what it's worth to get it to 'great' condition.

Anyhow. I happen to like the way the 1st and 2nd gen fbody's are built. I've built a few thirdgens and I don't like the design. No biggy, I still think thirdgen firebirds look great. It's other things.

I don't know that thirdgens are going to be fetching 10-20k in 10 years.. Look at second gens right now. You can get a mint late second gen for under $6500. Cheaper than it costs to build one. I have two in my back yard. 1st gens still get good money, and early 2nd gens. I almost bought a 67 firebird a few months ago for a song, but I'll wait until a camaro of the same vintage comes my way.

Anyhow. I don't miss the 80s. I'm not depressed to see a few junky fbody's go. Like I said earlier, I used to part them out all day so. And in theory, all it's doing is upping the value on your cars. right?

-- Joe

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

So ya don't miss the 80's? All the vacuum hoses and complex wires that seem to lead to know where.. I miss not being able to see my intake manifold under all that crap!

I haven't had much experience in taking car of a vette, but yea, I like to "hotrod" and third gens fit my budget. My 86 iroc is worth more than a 85 caprice, or a lincoln town car. The style is kinda timeless. I don't plan on putting lots of mula in either of my camaros, but it's all about having affordable fun right? I still believe they will retain their value more than a new gas sipper, but it's an educated guess.

Batass

I'd like to know how many people here complaining voted for Obama. Buying a new car to save gas is pointless. How many years will it take to make that money back? Possibly never. Buy more things you don't deserve or shouldn't afford. I picked up a 97 Audi A4 for 1500 bucks. It gets 31 mpg with some mods I did. I'll be able to sell that car for exactly what I've put into it. I sure wish there was a voting ballot for CFC. Oops, I forgot were an oligarchy, not a democracy.

okfoz

anesthes,
I guess you really have not been following prices of cars lately. They have fallen off, like every other car, but there were some really nice low miles cars that have been selling in the teens for a while. There have been several on ebay. They were not a 1LE or anything special either, other than being really clean and low miles.

True a V6, I4, LG4 and LO3 will never fetch a whole lot, but the L98 cars and the LB9/M5 cars for sure are getting some good coin when in nice condition and not trashed, like most third gens.

So your point is true to a point. You can find almost anything you want for around $7K or less, but you end up with junk in many cases.

John

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hi John,

While I myself have seen people posting cars for that much money, and perhaps some can even find buyers I know people who have been trying to sell really nice cars for quite some time with no bites.

Like I said, I had a really nice Z28 6 spd lt1 car that I sold for a song because that's the most I could get for it.

I sat on my Corvette for over a year before finally just shoving it off to someone for an absurd price.

I don't know that we can judge all thirdgens based on a select few that take in a premium, and I'm not completely convinced the transactions are actually happening. You will often see a car on ebay sell, and they be re-listed a few days later.

My friend has a really nice '88 ws6 transam, 350/A4 combo, t-tops, leather the whole deal. Low miles, not a scratch on the car. Beautiful paint, tires. He can't get an offer over $2500 for it.


-- Joe

89RSTBI

iTrader: (5)

yes but its still sad to see. I think its sad to see one end up in the junk yard where other people can tear it apart and use parts from it but this is going straight to the crusher and they all run

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Yea there alot of third gens that have seen there better day, but it still urks me to see tax payer money going to this program, and seeing a camaro being traded as a "clunker" just plain buggs the **** out of me. One more chevy small block destroyed. And to what end? How long do ya keep something like this going? Does false economy ring in your ears?

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

I payed $3400 for my rs and it's not junk.

okfoz

My Father in law turned in his 1997 Silverado, unfortunately it was only 2wd, but it was in beautiful condition, not a speck of rust anywhere (and that is unusual for Michigan). The truck was immaculate inside and out, besides a few door dings, there was nothing really wrong with it. he owned it since new....

Now it is garbage. I really look at it two ways. 1) it increases the value of mine due to rarity. 2) it saddens me to think that a perfectly good truck that could have been given to charity or donated, or possibly sold for probably more than what he got is now going to the crusher...

Se-la-ve It just makes me sad, almost depressed to think about how the government is doing this... I just wonder how long until they realize that the 750K cars that this has the potential to increase the economy of and lower emissions for will only make up .001 or so percent of our annual CO2 emissions...

It is just crap is all

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

That's what the govt is hiding behind oxfox, co2 and mileage. There is absolutely no evidence that co2 emissions is causing climate changes, yet so many are falling for it. It's all about taxes. That's what the big lie is about. If a person hears it enough they all too ofter become a believer. There have been changes in climate through out time, and they were unrelated to co2 in the atmosphere. Now that the govt is in the auto business, hey why not?

keeslinger31

Not all of those 16 year olds want civics anymore i have turned plenty of people away from the darkside and into the muscle car side just by giving rides in my car and talking some sense into them. The civic era is pretty much over now and the mustangs and camaros are making a comeback.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Most of the attention I get from my third gens is from teenagers. It doesn't get the same attention from as many mature adults. Especially stodgy vette owners lol..

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That may be true in your state. Around here "tuner" cars are bigger than ever.

-- Joe

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Well, another 2 Billion passed to keep the program going!

keeslinger31

Whooohooo....jk

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Ok, what is a "tuner" car??

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Imports. Pretty much anything that you can get a pipe or wing for on ebay.

-- Joe

89RSTBI

iTrader: (5)

yep, didn't take but 6 days for the first Billion to be spent

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'd trade my truck in for a nice new F350 diesel, but 1) I don't think the new purchase would qualify, and 2) I don't want to drop $45k on a truck right now.

-- Joe

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

So there is less than 2 weeks to flease the tax payers.

mtflyboy

I know the price is already going up on our babies. I have wanted a 3rd gen for as long as i can remember and the average price they are selling for has already risen a grand or two, and with the new camaro that makes ours even more classic.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

A grand or 2? I hope you are right, but I'm afraid your are not.

Batass

Funny how a lot of military trucks are still old Blazers and crew cabs...but most of the ones I've seen are overseas....

okfoz

Anesthes...

Just a few thoughts, not sure about your Corvette, but a modified car usually has a hard time selling. Unless it is from the 30's. The LT1/M6 combo would be a ton of fun, but when I see one of those cars I think to myself... What if... What if I cont diagnose a problem because of this new engine? What if I need a part for my trans and engine and it is not from the year the seller told me it was from. I can go on, My point is you may improve a car immensely, for crying out loud we know that the TPI was great in its day but it is antiquated, and many of us would not mind a new LS1, 2 6, 7, or even if you have the courage a LS9... I just think it ultimately hurts the value...

The counter point is if you do this to a lesser car, IE an original LG4, LO3, V6 or I4 car, it would probably increase the value, BUT the cost of swapping in one of the newer engines would never be offset by the selling price of the car.

-----------------

The second point I would like to make is the "Tuner" car is mostly popular in really Liberal areas, IE the coastal areas, LA, NY and Chicago. Beyond that I am seeing less and less of them locally.

-----------------

The third point, as it pertains to C4C. Keep in mind that the person who came up with this Scheme (The Car Czar (aka Dictator)) got the idea from Europe, Germany had a "Euro for Clunker" deal a few years ago. But apparently there was Fraud involved and many of those cars that were supposed to be crushed were sent to places like Africa. Once again our government has delved into something that only makes more problems. The fact is no matter what you buy, you will be in the hole in a few years. The more expensive of a car the more in the hole you will be. The thing that really strikes me is many if not most of these people were probably planning on a new car purchase anyways. They may have been more interested in Used (I have never bought new) because they are cheaper. But the truth is since many of these people were going to buy a new car anyways this may be a false spike and it will only last until the money runs out. In the end when the money is gone (and they do renew it indefinitely) The spike of sales in cars may actually be a huge valley because of the rush now may actually be offset.

This thing is so crazy the next thing you will know is they will make it a right to have high speed internet...

John

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

False spike... false economy! You hit it on the nose okfox. Fraud was the first thing I thought about when this cfc deal started. We're not the only ones eyeballing these so called clunkers as a commodity.

okfoz

Question,
Why do you keep calling me Okfox, it is with a Z. Not offended at all, just curious.

John

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Interesting observation. When we read we see a word as an object, and that's what I just did. I didn't look at your handle carefully enough and pronounced it to myself wrong. o k f o z.. I think I got it now lol

copperelite

correct me if i'm wrong but if this cash for clunkers is supposed to stimulate the economy and help out our automakers. How come they didn't make a clause in it that i only applies to American made cars.

Batass

Congress just cares about the perceived increase in the deceptive economy.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Some of these "clunkers" will be showing up in other parts of the country pretty soon. They will also be sent to other countries. Mark my word. This fertile soil for corruption, and it will grow fast. IMHO, this is less of a crime than the cfc program its self.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Hard to tell what's made in America anymore. A friend of mine bought a HHR, and it was made in Mexico. Go figure...

keeslinger31

The top 3 or so cfc cars are ford explorers i heard. And i also heard that most of the people are buying foreign cars anyway so how is that going to stimulate our economy? remember i just heard

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

The whole thing stinks all around. Seems as though our govt has lost its common sense. My third gens are not Fararri or Porche, but they have a certain value beyond there money value. The are not clunkers! I enjoy driving my iroc better than driving any gas sipping tin can!

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

FYI (to all you who don't know what your talking about): To date, the #1 new car sold because of the the cash 4 clunkers program, is the FORD Focus.

MitchellDeMoor

Well all I can say is **** it. I don't really care what the government is doing. Let us just enjoy working on our cars and driving them. We will have a lot more fun with out Third Gens in the end than some yupppie is having in his Prius. Just my two cents. So lets get off out asses and start wrenching and cruising.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Ben doing that already dude

okfoz

I heard of a mechanic complaint about saying it appeared to be taking away from his business. He was told by some/a potential customer(s) that had made appointment(s) that they were taking the car in for the C4C deal. Also there have been some accounts of the C4C taking cars away from places that take cars in as donations for those who cannot afford a car. Apparently they too have had several appointments to have a car donated only to be told that they decided to do the C4C deal instead of donating the car.

So who loses out so far?
The Mechanics
The Poor

I also did hear today that they estimate that this will in effect push up the price of used cars by about 10% to 20% as there may become more of a shortage. Especially a shortage in the less expensive cars valued under $4000..

So if you chose to hold onto your car it apparently has had a positive effect on the value. Of course if you are looking to buy, it had a negative effect because it may have just made them more expensive.

John

RevItUpZ28

iTrader: (1)

I never really thought about how it effected the mechanics, too--good point.

okfoz

Even to go a step further it will diminish our economy be taking money out of the hands of the auto-parts stores. Consider this. 1) you have had an influx of parts at junkyards. 2)Those parts not destroyed by the engine lobotomy could in effect cause a slow down in other sectors of the auto industry, like replacement parts. 3) Even without the junk-yard influx, It will create a slow down with replacement auto parts because there will be about 750,000 less cars that could have been repaired.

I predict that In 6 months or a year we will have an influx (my apparent new word) of people defaulting on loans, so there may be a rush on repo lots, causing the value of newer used cars to drop. The net effect is the older cars will gain value, the newer used cars will have a decrease in value.


John

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

okfoz is probably right about people defaulting on loans. Even with the 3500-4500 dollar discount, the loan for a new car is still a lot of money, for people who should not be spending large sums right now. It encourages irresponsible spending IMHO.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The unintended consequences of this program will be massive.

The intended benefits of this program will be nil.

The repercussions for the perpetrators will be along the lines of the intended benefits.

The Obama administration is refusing to release the full data to date on the program. So much for "openness" and "transparency".

According to industry sources, the Ford Escape is the most commonly purchased new vehicle in the program, not the Focus (the Gov classified the Escape, and many other SUV's and light trucks, in several different categories, so you have to combine the different categories of the light truck or SUV models in order to get the total model picture - another attempt by the administration to hide the truth about the program).

You don't know when you sign the papers whether or not your old car turn-in and new car purchase will be accepted by the program, nor how much you'll get if it is. If, in good faith, you turn in an old car and buy a new one, and the application is rejected, then what? Turn in the new car and take back your old one? Probably not - most people will just eat the extra car payment.

If a newer, more fuel-efficient vehicle was cost-effective, the poor would be driving newer, more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Financing a new car is one of the worst economic decisions you can make. This program will only make that situation worse.

It isn't the current year model new cars that are being sold, but last year's excess inventory. Therefore, no new jobs will be created in the auto industry, and the demand for the 2010 model cars will be reduced.

One of the stated benefits of the program is reduced CO2 emissions. Since anthropogenic climate change is a completely manufactured "crisis", it won't have any effect on global CO2 levels. Of course, we are now in a reduced solar activity cycle, so global CO2 levels will go down, and these monkeys will claim victory. Remember the "rain forest" crisis 15-20 years ago? We now all know (as most of us knew back then) that it was a complete myth.

Plastics pollution will be the next "crisis" that has to be "dealt with aggressively for the sake of the children".

Building a new car releases more carbon into the atmosphere than the "clunker" would emit if left on the road.

Since this program can't possibly work as intended, you can be just about 100% guaranteed that it will be continued.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Yea I remember the "hole in the ozone layer" also. It just led to nonsense laws about refrigerant, and stiff penalties if allowed to go into the atmosphere. I may have said this before, but corruption is written all over this program. I can hear Tony Soprano's wheels turning as this program perpetuates.

I like it when people speak out about this climate change nonsense. It's become sooo pc to go with the flow like a bunch of mindless lemmings. There have been fluctuations in the earth's climate since it's existence. There have been warming and cooing trends in recorded history, but the pc "scientists" chose to ignore this fact.

MitchellDeMoor

I agree with you completely. I have agreed with everything you said during this whole thread. All I can say is bend over because the man wants to you know what you in the you know what.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

When you go to trade the car in, you sign the sales contract with the dealership. They go on the computer and enter the information and request the rebate. When they get an approval number, they write it down on the documentation and discount it from the purchase price of the new vehicle. The dealer then takes possession of the car, and performs the procedure to disable the engine. The dealer is reimbursed the funds of the rebate.


Depends on the interest rate. Liquid assets are more important to me. If I can finance a vehicle for under 5% interest, I'd rather use that than my own funds. For example, a $25,000 car minus the $4500 rebate is 20,500 financed over 48 months, at 5% which is still high for a new car, that's only around $2100 in interest. I've seen loans written on new fords and Honda's at under 1%, so...

-- Joe