Hello, We purchased a 1987, V-6, 2.8 engine Firebird yesterday. ( Well, my 16 yr. old son did)
The car started for the elderly seller, But he had to use starter fluid sprayed into the throttle body.He told my son that he replaced the fuel pump recently, It has new plug wires on it,and the plugs look new.

He told my son that the car had been running, although it has a knock in the engine, (I am aware that the knock is serious,and probally means the bearings are gone,and we will need to replace or swap the engine soon)
But others had test drove it, Then it quit in the street. Thats when he replaced the fuel pump. He suggested the it could possibly be the fuel pump relay gone. We looked at the O2 sensor, it is rusty and old looking.maybe original!! Anyway... The car has spark, It wants to start, But sounds like a car that is out of fuel and can't start. The fuel gauge says it's full, However, I don't trust it,and We added about 2 gallons to it,and it showed over full, so maybe it's working, Maybe the gas is old and has water in it, I have no idea.

OK, Thats about all the background I have on it. I don't want to put alot of unneccesary money in it if we are to replace the engine,I guess my main question is, Does this sound like the Fuel Pump relay will make it stay running? I have also been advised that it could be either a MAP or MAF sensor. We did clean the MAP sensor.(But I think if these sensors were bad, it would run rough then cut off, Am I right)

If it were your teens car, and he is so wanting it to crank up and hear it run, Would you just replace the fuel pump relay 1st? Or what is a good plan of attack?

He has a car to drive when he gets his license next week until we can get it running, So there is no rush really other than he is wanting to get it going so He feels like the money he paid wasn't a total loss I guess.

Tomorrow, We are planning to drop the fuel tank, Pour out the gas, and check the fuel pump to see if it was a new one put in,and if it was installed properly, Because the pkg for the pump was left on the back seat, along with the new o ring.. So maybe it wasn't installed properly...

Any advice or suggestions? Please help if you can. Thank you so much.. He thanks you and his Mom thanks you (that would be me )

 

Can you hear the fuel pump running? Is there fuel pressure at the schrader valve on the fuel rail with the key on?

Technically, the fuel pump relay only provides power to the fuel pump for the first 15 seconds or so after you turn on the key. Once the engine starts, there's an oil pressure switch on the back of the intake that senses that the engine is running and power to the fuel pump is then routed through that switch, bypassing the relay. Even if the fuel pump relay is bad, the fuel pump will kick on as soon as you have oil pressure. Turning the key to start for about 20 seconds is all it normally takes to make oil pressure. Unless the knock (bad bearings) is causing the engine not to generate oil pressure, a bad fuel pump relay will just make it take longer to start. If you hear the pump come on when you turn the key on, then the relay is fine.

My recommendation would be to find a good mechanic you can trust. My next best suggestion would be to get a GM/Helm service manual for the car off of Ebay and start reading. I wouldn't recommend a 82-92 F-body as a first car for a teenager, or a novice car enthusiast. They're expensive to operate and maintain properly.

 

Thank you Drew for your reply. I am going to get the gauges to check the oil pressure as soon as I can. My husband and older son and I have done alot of mechanical work in the past, engine rebuilds,replacements, timming belt changes, pistons/rings, main and journal bearings and alot of other things like that.My dad is a retired mechanic (Good for alot of knowledge and experience), It has been a few years since woking on cars around here and tools have been loaned out and lost I guess, So I am having to replace things like pressure gauges, speacialty tools and such, which is why I haven't yet checked fuel and oil pressure. We are still only novice mechanics :-)

My older son liked cars alot, so we helped him out alot as far as mechanial work, Then along came the 16 year old, He LOVES cars, and really wants to get this car running.He wants to do the work himself if it's possible.

He saved up and paid $550 for it. It's all original. Even with the engine in the condition it's in, Do you think he overpaid? The clear coat is ruined on the roof, Paint is intact. Body is in great shape, All the interior is really good for its age, Driver side door is messed up on that outer edge, But I think that is very common in these cars from what I could tell as we scoured the salvage yard and Pull-a-Part today. He likes going out there for body parts, trim, etc.. Every one of the cars we looked at had that foam messed up in that one spot on the driver seat.

He has a 95 Honda Accord he will be driving as an everyday car. If this one is like you suggested, a bad car for a teen, He can sell it and trade up a little at a time, It's just he saw this one, fell in love and the price was in reach for him. I am very interested in your opinion as far as what he paid... too much? reasonable?

If you don't mind me asking, Why are those particular year models a bad idea, I know you said the expense of the up keep, but are they known to have alot of mechanical problems?
We have been researching for 2 days everything we can find on the internet about them.
And another question, This may be a dumb ?, But why are they referred to as the F body models?

I will certainly get a manual tomorrow,(add it to the shelf full of other car manuals from the past, a new one for every car
Check the oil pressure, and probally go ahead and check the gas in the tank, you think?

Thank you so much for your input and suggestions,I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Have a good week

 

The biggest thing that makes these cars a poor choice for a novice is that they're 80's performance cars. They're all 20+ years old, and in that time they've been owned by people that push them to their limits. Worse yet, they're inexpensive cars (initially), so the owners usually don't have a lot of money to maintain the cars or repair the damage from abuse. Most of them have the same problems, so it can be hard and expensive to obtain service parts. Some of them are just basket cases that drive an owner broke and drain their bank accounts. They're not exceptionally easy to work on either.

As far as a fair price, they're all over the place. Six cylinders are generally sub thousand dollar cars regardless of condition. V8's are usually somewhere in the $3000 range if they're in good shape. But then sometimes a fully loaded car with a small problem sells for nearly nothing, or a stripped down car with no options sells for more then book value. There's really no wrong price.

A good GM/Helm service manual goes a long way. Avoid Haynes/Chiltons manuals, and go right for the real deal. It'll cost more (around $30-50 used) but it'll have actual wiring diagrams, diagnostic flow charts, accurate torque specs, and descriptions of how things are supposed to work. The next best resource is the search feature on here. There are a ton of archived solutions here, a person can spend hours reading old posts.

Good luck with it.

 

#1 + 2- price is based upon your region and how you feel about it. last week I just bought an 89RS with a 305 TBI engine. It has all the pieces and the engine would crank but not turn over. I got it to run, just SeaFoamed it and it's not bad. The tranny runs and shifts. I paid $500 for it plus the flat bed transport and estimate that I'll put about $2,000 - $2500 parts into it doing a budget restoration. The tires are almost brand new and the rims can be reconditioned so that's worth the $500 right there. That is doing all the labor myself including painting/bodywork. I will pull the engine and rebuild it as I'm not looking for high performance (already own 2 of those). But, I have a v8 from which to begin, not a 2.8 v6. Anyway, you be the judge based upon what I bought and it's a florida car minimal surface rust and bolts actually come off without torches. I just picked up an entire brand new leather interior for short dollars to reskin the seats and door panels

3- no more or no less than other vehicles. As an 87 you must assume that it's been neglected. Parts made today are of better quality than parts made in the 80's so replacement parts should last longer. You can't expect to buy a project vehicle that's 24 years old without expecting a lot of work needs to be done. I just went through my vehicle and provided my estimate above. My labor estimate I can't even imagine and my goal is to sell the car for around $4000- $4500 to some parent of a teen that wants a car that is in great mechanical shape, looks good and is safe. Heck, I have friends who bought $7,000 cars for their kids and then a couple $thousand in repairs within a month. When I'm done, it will have a complete new interior including the new car smell, rebuilt engine, rebuilt tranny, new brakes, new bushings, u joints, pinion seal, shocks and struts and new paint job. Because I'm in no rush I can shop for deals on the pieces I need and that's why I jumped all over the interior this early into the project.

4- that's the designation given by GM. Impalas were called B bodies.

Plymouth Barracudas I believe were called E bodies by Chrysler