Sorry, i see where you're confused. When i said i'm not doing the engine swap i ment i'm not switching the engine out myself, because i don't know how. My mechanic IS doing the engine swap.

 

Thank you for explaining yourself. Now I can continue to follow along and feel invested.

 

Id run the speed density MAP system on the 88 engine, trans engine will all bolt on and you'll be running fine. Computers just dont go out on themselves thats teh least of your worries and you can get it fixed if you have too.

 

But the '88 has the computer program to change performance, wouldn't that be worth the wiring swap? I don't want to have to buy one for my '91 computer. Plus, the wiring for the '91 is pretty bad, the car lacks electrical power. Some of the connectors broke off to the TPS and MAP sensor and whatever else I can't see. Why is MAP better then MAF?

With the program I probably could increase MPG? Its perfect for when college starts this August. I have to go about 20 miles there and back every day.

 

I went on the website the guy gave me for the ECU thing. And this is what came up.

http://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the....html?cPath=50

Now, I could be wrong, but would this be able to fit into my '91 ECU? I did a little research and it says it fits 86 - 89 and 90 - 92. Could someone please double check to make sure i'm looking at this right?

This might help to verify:

http://support.moates.net/2009/05/07...guide-read-me/

Go down to 'Year & Model' and look for Ostrich 2.0

 

Maf is more forgiving with a stock tune but map is better in the long run. Since that is what your car is now I would leave it. If the cam that is in that motor isn't huge the car should still drive ok with a stock tune. If he has the receipts for it, post up the part number for the cam

-Jim

 

Well seeing as I want to keep the car mostly stock and at daily driver status (no dragster here), could MAF be a good option for that?

 

I would just leave the wiring alone, its not worth the switching the car over to MAF. Since you want to leave it stock, leave the stock wiring. Either swap the tpi unit over or get the cold start plug for the tpi that is on the motor

 

But my wiring is really bad. When i try to role the windows up, the car bogs down and almost dies. I don't want that with this new engine. I'll see what my mechanic thinks I should do.

Unless i'm completely wrong and it's not the wiring that causes my car to bog down like it does.

How do I switch the TPI unit? Or the 'cold start plug', not sure what that is.

Also, any idea on the Ostrich 2.0 program? I think it might actually work with the '91 ECU.

 

Sell the car, buy a new one.

 

You will have to pull the harness out to put the other one in anyways, so while you're waiting on the engine you can be fixing your current harness, so when the engine is installed you would have a nice harness to go with it. Go to the junk yard and clip the connectors you need and solder them on, easier said than done, but it'll give you something to do. You want to get it going and swapping ECM's will only delay that and cost more money. To get you around MAP will work fine.

 

Your windows bogging the car down is probably a poor charging system and old window motors. They are controlled by the body harness which is seperate from the engine harness anyway. Street & Performance makes a kit which you can see here, also a good read for you so you can learn the difference between units.

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/Streetstories/choosingtpi2.htm

 

Also I wouldn't start with the prom tuning unit. It's a lot of work and your just starting, and as you've said your not concerned with max performance right now just getting the car running right. Worry about getting the engine in and running first. Whatever chip that motor comes with, probably a hypercrap, isn't worth the circuit board it's printed on. This is all stuff you'll learn the more you read and spend time on here. If you wnat to make it easy on yourself contact Ed Wright at Fastship with the cam specs after the motor swap is done, from what I've read he is probably the only good mail order prom guy for these cars, others may chime in who have had personal experience with mail order chips though.

 

I agree, Ed Wright's tunes are about as good as they get without your car on a dyno. There are a lot of guys on here running his chipsand they only have the best things to say about his quality. When the time comes I'll be getting a tune from him. Just have tomake sure you know every detail so they can give you the best chip they can

 

Not entirely sure what the charging system is. You mean the battery isn't charged completely? And the window motors are stock so I can see why it might bog down. Plus, due to bad weatherstripping, the driver side window motor is probably rusted to hell from the years of rain getting in.

I'm also reading a lot on the website you posted and i got a few questions. What with the 88's 9th injector port and 'cold start'? Do I have to change the throttle cable for the '88? I'm a little confused with the 'Adjustable TPS' thing. How is it adjustable? I noticed that most of the TPI tubes have 'dents', is that normal?

I also noticed that on the '88 I could easily run my MAP.

I still don't understand how i would 'fix' my harness.

And EvilCartman, you say i should sell my car on everything i post. I DO NOT plan on giving up on my 3rd gen.

 

Fix it by replacing the connectors that are missing, broke, not usable, what ever. A crappy harness will make any engine run bad, so fixing your SD harness will be a good start in going the right direction.

You might as well do everything yourself or leave it up to your mechanic. This is the perfect opportunity for you to get started in the wonderful world of mechanics (sarcasm) and you will save a ton of money while educating yourself. It's how most of us got our start!! It's all nuts and bolts (kinda lol) and when you think of it that way, nothing seems so hard and honestly, it's not. Now, I don't know a whole lot about your car, but it does seem as if you bit off more than you can chew, which I think EvilCartman was getting at. If you don't have one already, go get a Haynes Repair Manual for our cars and STUDY IT! It will cover most of what you may be looking for, so you don't need to search for hours on here to find a nugget of info.

So, get out there and bust some knuckles, cuss the car out and throw tools around!! The best way to learn is to do, so go do something, just make sure you have fun while you're doing it too!!

 

stop looking for completely stock"rebuilt" engines unless you are getting receipts for everything.... just because you buy a motor with aftermarket parts doesnt make it a dragster.... If you were going to spend a grand for a rebuilt 305 consider this... I just sold a 355 that had 7k miles on it since full rebuild for $1200, lt1 crank, lt1 rods, speed pro pistons, arp studs(mains) 4 bolt, comp roller cam, trick flow heads(195 23*) arp head bolts, cloyes double roller timing chain, and I had reciepts for everything( machine work and parts)... If your going to swap the motor make it an upgrade,,,,,, or have your current motor redone and do what you feel comfortable doing to save some $$$. There is a ton of knowledge on these boards and most members are more than willing to help with any problems you may incounter.... good luck and keep us posted on your progress

 

I completely agree with what you're saying but to have my current engine redone would cost thousands and I don't have that kind of money. My dad drove the Camaro for roughly 13 years, put it into storage for 4 years (not being run for those entire 4 years), then when I got my license he gave it to me. After throwing a thousand into it, we finally got it running, I even have the receipts of what my mechanic did. I've had the Camaro for 2 years now, and I absolutely love it even with it's flaws. The first year it ran decent, got me from point A to point B with no issues what so ever. Up until I took it on the highway for the first time. It ran ok at high speeds, when I came to a stop when i exited, the car died, right then and there. It started up right after but I was panicking because it's never done that before. The entire way home was a rough ride. A month later the fuel pump started whining very loudly, could be heard from 15 feet or more away. The car would stall, daily, AT LEAST 4 times. my biggest record was 8 times in one day, not even going a full mile to school. I replaced the fuel pump and distributor and the stalling subsided. The car ran great for 2 weeks till the new fuel pump started whining. So since the first time it happened it was the fuel pump, I replaced it yet again (of course with the same Airtex crap), it did not subside.

A few weeks later I brought it to a shop and told them to look over everything. They said the heads were on there last limbs, major sludge build up, cam is going bad, an injector is not working at all and the others are on there way, internally the engine had a few cracks. My mechanic believes the car was neglected. My dad took care of that car, from what I saw. He had tune-ups on scheduled times, I even helped him clean the air filters when I was little. But my mechanic also said it could have been from the 4 years it was sitting, with fluids and all still in the engine. The car was not started for 4 years. I truly believe that my current engine is on it's last legs. And seeing as I can't make it to school without breaking down, it's time for a new one, and getting a 'new' engine was the cheapest thing I could think of. To me, this car has sentimental value, I grew up with it and i'd like to keep it alive as long as I can, though it won't be forever i know. Since the new engine has 1,000 miles it will last me another 10 to 12 years and I will maintain the crap out of that thing. I wash it once a week as it is, dirty or not.

When I get a job i'll throw more money into the car. The next priority on my list are brakes(my mechanic said that my rear drum brakes are at 5% and the front ones are at about 4%, I think he means the pads need to be replaced? Not sure about the drum, don't know much about those) After that it's more engine parts and little things here and there in the transmission, even though it was rebuilt.


Stealthroc89:
I'll talk to my mechanic and see what he thinks I should do. If he says we should replace everything, then i'm replacing everything and watching what he does so in the future I could possibly do it myself. If he says we shouldn't bother replacing things in the harness and instead just clean a few things out, what else could I do to make the cars electrical 'system' run better? Like the deal with the bogging down when I role up the windows. Whats another way to get rid of that? Would an overnight battery charge work? The battery is only 2 years old.

Also, I do have a Haynes Repair Manual and it has helped me in the past, but some things I could do on my own I can't seem to find in the Manual. Like replacing the fuel injectors, it tells me how to find them, but doesn't tell me how to successfully remove them.

I also have a question: What oil would you recommend I get for this new engine?

 

Any oil will work, its an opinionated question that will get you lots of different answers. Is your mechanic a friend of yours? Just seems like there's a lot wrong with the car, I don't get the cracked internals part. Maybe you should get a 2nd opinion before you start paying him to do repairs that aren't needed. The haynes manual covers the injector removal. Look in the index for something related to it, like fuel rail removal. Id tell you what page but I'm working right now lol. Just remember to get gaskets and injector o-rings before you do it, last time I did it they had to order some of the gaskets which cost me some down time. I was under the impression your harness was messed up, you mentioned missing connectors in a previous post, if its not that bad then don't worry about

 

You sure as hell got that wrong.

 

Ok now, instructions on how to get to the fuel injectors is on page 4B-12 of the Haynes manual. Follow every instruction, don't take any shortcuts, I know it looks like a big task, but it's really easy. One tool you may have to buy is a #40 Torx socket or wrench.

Just read your last post again and I'd like to know how he came to those conclusions? I don't think your engine is about to die, some of the things that keep it running good might be though. Does your check engine light come on when it's running? If so get the codes using the paperclip trick and post them, use the Haynes manual to find out what the numbers mean, page 6-4. This could be any easy fix that can save you some serious dough. Does the engine smoke? Does it only stall when you stop? What rpm does it idle at?

You have to do all the free stuff before you throw money at it. Set the IAC, idle screw and TPS. Check for vacuum leaks. Get the trouble codes. All these steps are covered in detail on here, when you do those things and the problem hasn't gone away we'll move on to another step.

 

Just got of the phone with the guy selling the engine. He said it's been sitting for several years and not been run. The car was in a rear end collision and the engine was still running after the collision. I asked my mechanic what could be wrong with the engine when it sits for several years (because my current engine sat for years and we had to pay 1,000 to get it running again) and he said the o-rings could be fried because of condensation in the cylinders. The engine had oil in it all the years. My mechanic told me to turn the crank shaft with a wrench when I go to pick it up. What else could be wrong with the engine since it's been sitting for a while?

Right now i'm looking at the receipt of when I first got my car running and it doesn't look like anything was done to the engine.

Delco Fuel pump
Delco strainer
Fuel Filter
Fuel conditioner
Megaton battery
New starter
Compression union
Clamps
50/50 Prestone
GTX 20/50
Oil Filter
Tack tape, insulation tape, welding, supplies, shims
And a 'R-134A', not sure what this is.

Doesn't look like anything was done to the engine, right?

 

I really would stear clear of this swap all together, that motor sounds like your asking for trouble, and yours doesn't sound that bad. Everytime you post there is something else the guy hasn't told you about the motor.

I hope they pulled the valve covers to tell you there was sludge build up, if they didn't pull a valve cover I wouldn't know how they could tell you there was huge buildup. If there is, pull your valve covers and start scraping and cleaning, use wd40 to break it down try not to let it fall into the oil return passages. Then I suggest seafoaming the car to get at the rest. After you seafoam the car changing the oil and spark plugs probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

When I said the charging system is to blame for the car bogging down down when you used the power windows I meant a weak alternator, coupled with old worn out window motors and window tracks that probably need to be relubed.

R-134a is for the air conditioning, I have no idea why they are running 20w50 oil in your car 10w40 is the highest I would go for your needs.

Also it sounds like your tight on money, one rule of thumb I've learned swapping motors is to take what ever you think it would cost and double it. Especially if its your first time to account for things that may break, things that you thought were good but weren't, and to replace all the things that should be done motor/tranny mounts, rubber lines, etc...

Before you go spending lots of money swapping the motor, take a little bit of money and try working on the car yourself. If you were closer I'd give you a hand since you sound new to this, if you want pm me and I'll give you my phone number and I can talk you through some of this stuff. Its easy to get frustrated but in the end it will be worth it.

-Jim

 

I jsut saw the part about the cracked internals, aside from disassembling the motor there is no way they can tell that. Also they didn't charge you for valve cover gaskets so they probably didn't pull them. Can you post some pics of the car and engine? More detailed pics of the engine the better

-Jim

 

I had to switch mechanics because my main mechanic that my family has been going to for 20 years screwed me over. They removed valve covers, did compression tests (highest was 125), and took the heads off to get further into the engine. They said they had to dig threw a lot of sludge. They said I need new heads, injectors, a few cracks in the engine and recommended going to a junk yard and gettin' a 350 small block. I did junkyards everywhere, even ones that were 35 miles away. Only 2 had a chevy 350, one had 210,xxx miles and no heads, the other had 42,xxx miles but was in a front end collision and the cylinder tubes were 'bent'

I'm going to take a look at the new engine anyways. I'm going to review the receipts he shows me. I'm going to take the spark plugs out and try to turn the engine with a wrench from one of the belt wheels (not sure which one) so I at least know the o-rings aren't fried from condensation. I'm going to ask him if the spark plugs were in the car the entire time it was layin around, if they were thats great. If not then i'll have to see if I can turn the engine. It's worth the trip because my current engine won't get me to college daily.

Also, if I take the valve covers off do I need to put another gasket down right away? Or can I take them off, check the heads (for sludge, possibly corrosion, and water) and simply put them back on? Or at least drive it home and put one on a few days later before it's started? (if i buy it)

I've only removed the right valve cover once and I honestly don't remember how I did it.

EDIT: The guy sellin the engine just called me back and said he left the spark plugs in, put a rag in the water pump, he's going to take the belt off so I can turn the crank, and it's been sitting for only 3 years.

The thing is that he didn't plug the spots where the headers go (the 8 small squares where the headers would connect to on the block) would that matter? He also called his mechanic and he said it should be fine because it was rebuilt, driven for a month or 2, then put into storage. He also recommended a new thermostat.

 

^ key thing you learn from that is LEARN HOW TO DO IT YOURSELF, life will be easier, none of us need to yell at you anymore about how ignorant some of your plans and ideas may be. i think that if you know nothing about cars as i can see at the time, then buying a 20+ year old car was definitely the wrong choice and a poor investment. thanks for trying to save another thirdgen but your way over your head. gm has some of the easiest engines to work on, so start from the basics and work your way up, its alot less frustration. as to your questions, the belt wheen you turn it from is the one on the crank, which should be the lowest directly in the center of the engine above the oil pan. for your valve covers, you dont have to put gaskets down right away, take off the covers clean the surface of the metal on the heads so the gasket has a nice clean surface, and if your going to keep the valve cover off for a day or two then put a plastic bag over the heads. what are you checking the heads for? and valve cover is about 8-10 bolts if i remember correctly that can easily be taken off. but remember to clean both surfaces that the gasket is going to touch, you can put it on right after or wait till your ready to put the cover back on it doesnt matter. and look up the torque specs on it too, your dont want it too tight or too loose. and to do with the new engine your looking at what good is making sure the engine turns over, yes its a good idea but its nothing conclusive, it just means the engine is free and not locked up, it could turn over and have issues you may not know

 

That would have been a hell of a bill if they pulled the heads just to look for sludge, 800-1000 if they are cheap. Are you sure that was done? If it was that bad they probably wouldn't have put it back together, and should have been able to clean the heads pretty well to get all teh sludge out before they put it together. If they didn't the heads probably wouldn't have sealed

Also If your going to look at the motor the only way to verify the parts are actually in it is to pull some of the motor apart. Anyone can have receipts, doesn't always mean they have the parts

 

That's what I've said, maybe if more people share the same opinion he will listen. Any good mechanic would have called you up there to show you the cracks and and made a plan with you to get it fixed, not tell you there's sludge, your cam is going flat and he found cracks in the engine with his x-ray machine.

So you want a new engine? Ok go for it, but don't go after the 1st one you see. Search your area for places that rebuild engines, they should offer a good warranty and you will know what you're getting. Ask they guy selling the engine if he will warranty his engine, if he does, get it in writing. I'm sure he won't because he don't know if there is anything wrong with it! Your engine "went bad" sitting in the car, just imagine what his is going to be like after sitting OUT of the car for years. He could have just gotten the engine to rotate and is now trying to sell it to some dope that turns it over and thinks it's a good engine.

You dont need to take the belt off to turn the engine over, thats what I use to spin the engine when I've put the distributor in it and adjusted the valves and I'm not a big guy lol!

You couldn't find ANY 350's? All 87-95 small block chevy's will work in your car, they all bolt up the same whether it's from a truck, van, car, whaterver. The heads, cam and intake will be different, but that doesn't really matter, take the intake off and throw it away, sell it or scrap it, can't use it anyways, then put your TPI system on it. I bought a 350 out of a van with 165,000 for $150 and then 3rd gear went out, so I drove at highway speeds with only 1st and 2nd gear 10 miles to and from work. It had to have been hard on the engine, but it took it with no signs of wanting to give up. On the way to my moms garage (where I parked it to swap in my current engine and transmission) I didn't care what happened to the engine, so I ran it WAY harder than I normally did and it took it like it was nothing. Just because it's out of something other than an fbody, doesn't mean it's any less of an engine.

As suggested by others, just get your current engine rebuilt. You know it's rebuilt, you know what's in it and yet again, there will be some sort of warranty. It shouldn't cost too much more, if at all, than what you're going to pay for the other one. After you run a rebuilt engine, it turns into a used engine with low miles.

Listen to us guys, some of us have been down he road you're currently on, minus a few details. I wouldn't trust your mechanic any more than the guy with the engine. You need to make a plan and stick with it, cause right now your all over the place with options. If you're going to get a rebuilt engine, go to a machine shop and buy one or rebuild the one you have now . If you're going to buy a used engine, get one from a junk yard or some other place where you can hear it run and leave that other engine alone.

 

So remind me why you didn't just make things a simple guarantee and either:

a) buy a rebuilt from someone who offers a warrantee and a guarantee

b) rebuild one yourself, or find someone who will help you (a reputable machine shop).

You said you don't have a lot of money, and my advice to you is this: There's a LOT of very bad people in the "car world" because it's so easy to find ways to screw people over, particularly when so many things could go wrong in an engine. Until you've learned a lot of information by at the very least DOING YOUR HOMEWORK - you need to take the safer routes to save your money or you're just going to run into someone else that's more than happy to take your dollars in exchange for their junk.. by safer, I mean the two options I mentioned. Keep in mind you also have to do your homework on both of those as well, as there are also bad people in those areas you need to look out for. In this regard, when you have this motor done correctly by a reputable company - the likelyhood of getting help is significantly higher.. especially if you run into someone who is trying to do a number on you during installation (if that were to occur).

 

Installation is going great!

My old engine was really bad. 2 of my pistons had holes, major sludge on heads, bent push rods, coolant got into the manifold, etc etc. 2 injectors were also bad.

We're replacing the stock engine mounts before we put the new engine in.

I also want to replace the Torque Converter while we have the tranny exposed. Which one should i get?

 

OOh. if you got the tranni exposed, put a shift kit in. It's worth it. Parts are cheap, and easy to instal, and it's great with a new tq converter. Ask anyone.

 

Doesn't mean it's a good combo at all for anything even!




One of the biggest scams running are all these ebay engine builders who take garbage 70s truck engines, machine them out and rebuild them and paint them. They're still garbage 70s truck engines. 150hp to the wheels, even though they have "too much to list" generally when it comes to their fancy parts lists. The parts that matter are garbage. They cant give away those heads for free in most cases. So they do some silly stuff to them and sell them for a boatload of money to people who dont know better bolted to generic 350 rebuilds. These rebuilt 350s are slower than the 305's in most IROCs.

 

Glad to hear everything is going well, cheapest alternative would be the s10 converter from autozone, since your car isn't too far from stock it may be perfect. If you want a better converter post up the cam specs, trans specialties can probably make you a real nice one.

-Jim

 

I'll check out autozone. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-104224/ this is the cam(i do have receipt, he got everything at summit except the new pistons). He gave me the original cam as well.

Also, i've been looking for a cold air intake but cant seem to find one for 3rd gens. I might get one just for better gas mileage since i'm already leaving out my smog pump on the new engine.

 

Ya, it's pretty funny how there's "too much to list" when there aren't a lot of parts there to list lol. Even the the notable items would make a pretty short list.

 

I called the guy as soon as my dad old me i should get the engine. And I got the engine already so drop it. All parts have receipts and it is quite a long list. and the guy was really cool.

I looked at the heads and they're spotless. Cam turned easily, turned it about 10 times and heard the vacuum lines release air. He spent $1,841.47 at machine shop and $1,534.09 on summit. Most parts accounted for except starter and exhaust.

 

He spent HOW MUCH on a 305,,, Your best bet is save up a little more and get a rebuilt backed by a warranty or a new crate engine besides believe nothing for all you know this could have been a bone yard engine all cleaned up. I have pictures of junk engines with nice dress up and after market stuff on them, they look awesome but aint worth spit.

 

how would you know it turns easily, there should be some resistance

 

sound like you got a good deal to me i would suggest gettin some headers off summit for about a hundred bucks stock ones are junk

 

Finally! Someone that agrees!

 

I agree. This was a good deal. Most of these guys that disagree are new, and obviously haven't read the whole two page discussion on the topic. Also I agree, get some better heads.

 

I just don't want to see him get ripped off, but it looks like it will work out for him. Could use better heads and a 2000 stall, but to get down the road everything he has is fine and that's what he wants. A 5speed and 3.73 gears would make it a blast to drive! Should have some lope to it, so dont mistake that for a miss or something like that. Just take it easy for a week or 2, just so the bugs can be worked out and you know everything is right. Have Fun!

 

Trust me, half of this fourm was about everyone talking about how he could get ripped off. It was settled 40 or so posts ago. This was a good buy, or at least we agree the guy is not trying to rip him off.

 

If you're referring to me, dont make assumptions. Im speaking in generalities. If the OP gets ripped off that's his responsibility to A) find out the necessary info and B) make that decision.

The problem with the OP is that he hasnt gone about ANY of this in a very intelligent way. He delegates out too much work, goes off of way too many assumptions, and doesn't know nearly enough to make any of the decisions he needs to make to do this right. And even all that's fine if you actually take time to LISTEN to people who know more than you. He rarely, if ever, addresses anyone's concerns with anything beyond a variation of "yeah, but I think it's gonna be okay anyway!".

It isn't hard, but it takes time to learn all this stuff, and he's just blindly jumping into anything he can find. But at least he doesn't think a 4th gen rear end will give him more rear wheel horsepower.

 

hahahahahaa

 

Car runs for a few seconds but then dies. It's most likely a bad module so we're switching out the distributor. No knocking, no major vibration, there is a weird sound but my mechanic said its going to do that for a few weeks till the engines bugs are out.

Also i need to tune the car and i'm really stumped on how to get it to work.

This is the overview of the product: http://support.moates.net/2008/09/11...h-20-overview/

I did download the TunerPro RT software.

 

Got the engine accelerating. Idle is still rough. The engine will stay on if i hold on the accelerator but if i don't it dies. My mechanic thinks its the valve lash because their is a very distinguishable 'ticking' sound.

 

Sweet. Keep posting the progress.

 

lol oh you

 

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